Lets say a guy was to start up his own bookmaking operation.

Would the mob really do anything nowadays if he did this?

Would they even feel it was worth the trouble and attention this would bring onto them if they were to extort a young guy trying to run things on his own?

30-40 years ago no way would this fly in areas that were mob terroritory. But now? I'd say if a guy wanted to start his own bookmaking operation more power to him as long as he can do it well.

Rush, if the guy lived and operated in a state where sports and horse betting and numbers has been legalized, (which the vast majority have at this stage of the game,) then nobody in the mob would bother him, or even give a damn, for the simple reason that if its legal, there's absolutely no money left in it for the underworld. For instance, since NJ and NY legalized sports betting, bookmakers (those who are even still trying to hang on) are now starving. That entire business is over!...

It would be the equivalent of a guy trying to sell snow in the North Pole to an Eskimo!

Lol

It's not exactly a yes or no answer and it's never been. They've never gone after every independent but they do go after them. Most recent case would be Joey Amato's crew going after Leo the Lion and the Bosco family.


Contrary to what was said bookmaking is still huge business legal or not. Legalisation took a bite out of the illegal market but in no way has it destroyed it.

Not withstanding anything you'll hear or read to the contrary, the illegal bookmaking business in NY and NJ is now on a respirator and life-support system....Rush, just remember down the road a bit, that you heard it from me (The Other Guy) first. Lol

There's still a lot of illegal gambling going on. High stakes private poker games and other action that's covered by credit an online bookie like Fanduel isn't gonna give you. But you'll have a vig to pay every week or you're going to have a big problem.

Hi CNote,

I partially agree with you. But I also disagree with what you said here. If you're saying that, pretty much, only poker games are going in NYC now, then I completely agree with you. But if you're saying that bookmaking and other gambling is still strong here, then I strongly disagree with you.

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I agree with you that there are still knockaround guys involved in illegal gambling, but, nowadays in NYC, most of the fellas who do that sort of thing are trying to operate private social clubs with card games which they cut 5% out of each pot for the "house." And at some of these locations, (some of them, not all,) they'll also have a few joker-poker video slot machines available for customers who wanna play those....but thats about it. Period!

And yes, there are still local bookmakers taking sports bets....but they are quickly getting out of the game because, as I stated above in my earlier post, NY's legalization of sports betting over the last year or two has literally -- not figuratively, but literally -- gutted them!

A huge majority of their wagering customers, little by little, have flocked over to the litany of legal online sports-wagering companies now available to them.

NY's bookies are quickly finding out that about the only bettors still coming into them as the older bettors, the diehards, who they've had as customers for decades and are not inclined to switch because they're dinosaurs, and many of these bettors are not even familiar with the internet, understand?

By the way, what I'm telling you here is NOT conjecture, hyperbole or a wild guesstimate....its cold hard facts!
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NOTE: I think by now, most of you are aware of the fact that I come out of NYC, where I was born and bred my entire life. In the neighborhood where I grew up, if we didn't have at least 200 bookmakers, probably more, then we didn't have 1 (lol)... I knew most of em, and to this day many are still friends who keep in touch....So I am more than just a little familiar with the subject at hand.
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To prove my point even further, consider this:

Back before the legalization of the NYS Lottery (LOTTO), there were literally thousands and thousands of policy-numbers runners, who fed hundreds of policy "banks" throughout all the Five Boros. The numbers business was one of the Mob's biggest moneymakers, generating hundreds of millions of dollars a year, in NYC alone.

But, within a few years of NYState implementing their own "numbers" business, 95% of the Mob's policy banks went Kaput...Finito! And today? Lol. Good luck even finding a street guy who takes numbers bets anymore...Its become a bullshit business.
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NEXT:

Horse-race bookmaking. Years back, before the advent of legalized horse betting in NYC, many bookies actually preferred to only take bets on horses, for the simple reason that they liked the odds better. I don't know if you're aware of that? But lots of bookies wouldn't even bother taking sports bets.

But by the early 1970s, NYS started up the OTB Corporation, (Off Track Betting) and within a few years time, the entire horse business went out the window for mob guys...It became another bullshit business. Nearly all their customers started betting with the State of New York. So all the bookmakers had to shift their business solely over to sports bookmaking. Accepting a "horse bet" from a customer soon became a "courtesy" bookies would extend as an accommodation for a good bettor.

These are cold hard facts, fellas...Not conjecture!
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Whatya wanna talk about next, fellas, floating dice games?

"Floating dice games" -- which was previously another multimillion-dollar-a-year business for the Mob, hasn't been a thing in NYC for years already!

Are there still one or two small, bullshit games that guys operate every "blue moon" somewhere within the Five Boros? Yeah, maybe! (but thats a real BIG maybe!)

Right after legalized casinos came to Atlantic City, NJ -- in 1977 -- within a few years times 90% of ALL table games; dice, craps, roulette, blackjack, etc., etc., etc., went out the window!

Today? Nearly 50 years later? LOL....Pleeez!

Good luck finding any of that -- a roulette table, etc -- around the city. It ain't happening fellas....because thats all over!
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In closing this, let me state -- once again -- that these are not my personal opinions, or guesses, or bullshit hyperbole. These are cold hard facts that you can either choose to believe, or not. But regardless or what you decide -- to believe me or not -- these facts will remain facts!

Do they go after them, no prob not, do they exist, yes absolutely. At the level of the past no but they exist and always will. And they are making a living, that I know as a fact in my area

The difference between floating games and casinos is simple, the IRS.
"All of these require giving the payer your Social Security number, as well as filling out IRS Form W2-G to report the full amount won. In most cases, the casino will take 24 percent off your winnings for IRS gambling taxes before paying you."
https://www.covers.com/industry/illegal-gambling-market-remains-robust-jan-6-2024

Ain't nobody wants to share their winnings with the fucking government. Michael Jordan and his buddies run multimillion dollar golf matches, you think their using FanDuel? Secondly, there are states, like Vermont where online gambling is illegal so they turn to offshore illegal offshore gambling sites. You have the Cubans in Hialeah running bolitas, which is just a numbers racket and you can get credit in a floating game which you're not going to get in Vegas. It definitely isn't what it used to be since the advent of reservation gambling but there's still a lot of big money games floating around for those seeking to gamble without the scrutiny of government agencies.

We're NOT discussing about states where gambling is still illegal...at least I'm not. I'm speaking about states where gambling has been legalized, like NY and NJ, as I laid out -- point by point -- in my post above.

But, CNote, if you still really think so, then who am I to argue with you.

Believe whatever you like or need to.

There's a difference between a discussion and an argument, mature people can agree to disagree, which is rarely the case in this forum where everyone's opinions are infallible. I think it's somewhere in the middle., it's ertainly not like it was in the heyday of the mob when they controlled OTB offices in NYC. Those days are gone forever but there's still a lot of illegitimate action going on when one doesn't have access or can't legitimately gamble in casino's for whatever reason, broke, maxed out credit cards, whatever. You can always get credit in a rolling game but you better be able to pay if you lose.

Id much rather gamble straight cash than give a big chunk to the goverment. Going through a bookmaker is much better in my opinion or finding an underground card game somewhere. There are many who agree with that.

CNote, I agree, mature people can just agree to disagree, if they can't see eye to eye on a particular subject. And just because you and I don't agree here, does NOT suddenly elevate this discussion of ours into an argument...does it? No, of course not.

But what I laid out and disseminated in my earlier post about the loss of the various gambling rackets are not "my opinions." Nor is it a matter of "opinions being infallible," or not. These are cold hard facts and well established statistics, that you can look up if you like, which support what I'm trying to say here, understand?

That said, (as I mentioned) you can believe whatever you like. But "facts" are still facts.

Are you going to continue saying that when we continue to see mob bookmaking cases? They've been happening since legalisation and I'd bet will continue to happen in 2024. Your cold hard facts so far is just your opinion.

“Silence is always the best reply to a fool.”


BTW; this message was not meant for you, CNote. You, I respect and like.

Those illegal card games look like they could get fuckin dangerous.

Do the Cartels currently run illegal card games at all?

What about Loan Sharking Extortion and Unions ? Obviously Drugs is one of their Surviving Rackets