“Over the years, how many Cosa Nostra “Families” were actually known to have operated rackets within the State of New York?”

Choose one number from the five choices we provided below. So how many borgatas were there? 5 families?...6 families?...7?...What do you think?...

5 Families
6 Families
7 Families
8 Families
9 Families

I'd go with 8

What if the five choices below are wrong because I can count at least 11.

Outside the 5 families, I'd say NJ, Buffalo, Pennsylvania...

I don't know what Merlino was doing here, but I never knew of Philly having a presence here, doing anything...

Good topic....Give more insight

Thank you DL. I thought it was an interesting topic also, and one that our forum members would enjoy discussing.

Outside families from NYC,NJ and Bufalino, I'd say there were guys in NYS that at least had connections with Chicago,Cleveland,Philadelphia,Pittsburgh, Youngstown,Canada,if those places weren't actually operating in NYS at some point in the Mob's history

Does the Mangano, Scalise, Anastasia, Gambino family count as one family or four?

No, regardless of how they refer to themselves as, by any other name, thats still only one family, right?

LOL...Believe it or not, I've been so busy lately, that I actually think I forgot to post the answer to this interesting question here, on GBB. We did post it on our website and channel, but not here...So, I do apologize. And like they say in Brooklyn...here goes nuttin'...
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THE ORIGINAL QUESTION WAS… “Over the years, how many Cosa Nostra “Families” actually operated within the State of New York?”


“The Other Guy” weighs in and gives his opinion on the subject:

I believe the correct answer to this question is that (9) nine separate Cosa Nostra Families operated within New Your State at one time of another. The nine borgatas active in NYS are as follows;

(#1 thru 5) The notorious “Five Families” based downstate in New York City; Genovese, Gambino, Bonanno, Colombo and Lucchese.

(#6) In addition, although based in New Jersey, the DeCavalcante Family also maintained a strong presence throughout New York City where they operated two separate regimes based in Queens and Brooklyn.

(#7) Then you have the Stefano Magaddino Family whose home-base was always the Buffalo-Niagara Falls area, but who also operated throughout many upstate areas, including such cities of Syracuse, Rochester, Utica, etc.

(#8) By the 1950s, the City of Rochester had become autonomous, and was now considered a completely separate Cosa Nostra network all its own. From that point forward, it became the Frank Valente Family.

(#9) And last, but certainly not least, was the little known Giuseppe (Joe) Barbara Family that controlled the Triple-Cities region, whose headquarters was based within the City of Binghamton, but also ruled over the surrounding territories. Headed by Joe Barbara, after his death in 1959, this network was taken over by Barbara’s former underboss, Rosario (Russ) Bufalino.
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Sidenote: This Cosa Nostra network originated in Northeastern Pennsylvania, around Pittston and Scranton. But they also maintained a strong presence in the Binghamton area which was right over the PA-NY border through Family capo-regime Joe Barbara. After Barbara was elected the new Family boss in the late 1940s, he relocated the headquarters of this borgata to his hometown of Binghamton and also greatly expanded their NYS territory.

Through the years, many people, including law enforcement and researchers alike, have misidentified Barbara as a member of Buffalo’s Magaddino Family. But, in actuality, dating all the way back to the 1920s-1930s era, Barbara had always been a member of the Santo Volpe Family of Pittston.
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Do you have a source for this?

DL, it was 9....lol

But hey, you were close...real close. So maybe you won't end up with the brass ring. But your answer definitely deserves a top quality cigar!

Thanks for playing along.

I completely agree, Havana. In fact, I'm certain that there were many, many knockaround guys sprinkled throughout NYS who had friendships or connections - loose, formal or otherwise - with guys from a lot of different crews all across the nation.

But that doesn't mean that those out-of-state fellas or families ever put down stakes and did business or operated within NYS, understand what I'm trying to say?

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Here ya go DL, (sorry about the delay)


LOL...Believe it or not, I've been so busy lately, that I actually think I forgot to post the answer to this interesting question here, on GBB. We did post it on our website and channel, but not here...So, I do apologize. And like they say in Brooklyn...here goes nuttin'...
-


THE ORIGINAL QUESTION WAS… “Over the years, how many Cosa Nostra “Families” actually operated within the State of New York?”


“The Other Guy” weighs in and gives his opinion on the subject:

I believe the correct answer to this question is that (9) nine separate Cosa Nostra Families operated within New Your State at one time of another. The nine borgatas active in NYS are as follows;

(#1 thru 5) The notorious “Five Families” based downstate in New York City; Genovese, Gambino, Bonanno, Colombo and Lucchese.

(#6) In addition, although based in New Jersey, the DeCavalcante Family also maintained a strong presence throughout New York City where they operated two separate regimes based in Queens and Brooklyn.

(#7) Then you have the Stefano Magaddino Family whose home-base was always the Buffalo-Niagara Falls area, but who also operated throughout many upstate areas, including such cities of Syracuse, Rochester, Utica, etc.

(#8) By the 1950s, the City of Rochester had become autonomous, and was now considered a completely separate Cosa Nostra network all its own. From that point forward, it became the Frank Valente Family.

(#9) And last, but certainly not least, was the little known Giuseppe (Joe) Barbara Family that controlled the Triple-Cities region, whose headquarters was based within the City of Binghamton, but also ruled over the surrounding territories. Headed by Joe Barbara, after his death in 1959, this network was taken over by Barbara’s former underboss, Rosario (Russ) Bufalino.
—
Sidenote: This Cosa Nostra network originated in Northeastern Pennsylvania, around Pittston and Scranton. But they also maintained a strong presence in the Binghamton area which was right over the PA-NY border through Family capo-regime Joe Barbara. After Barbara was elected the new Family boss in the late 1940s, he relocated the headquarters of this borgata to his hometown of Binghamton and also greatly expanded their NYS territory.

Through the years, many people, including law enforcement and researchers alike, have misidentified Barbara as a member of Buffalo’s Magaddino Family. But, in actuality, dating all the way back to the 1920s-1930s era, Barbara had always been a member of the Santo Volpe Family of Pittston.
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So the Philly Patriarca and Chicago families don't count? Or the others that I'm sure I've missed?

I understand what you are trying to say (BTW I accidently left out the obvious Buffalo). And I agree
But although no flag was planted by some of those families,as you say many NYS knockaround guys might have had friendships or connections ,
.I think you just clarified what I was trying to imply which is that you say some may have been loose,formal or otherwise.My emphasis is on the word "Formal"

To me that means that you aren't ruling out that even if a guy hung with and associated or partnered with guys from the Bufalinos or Maggadinos,etc that they may well have been made guys in places with no flag planted in NYS like Chicago,Cleveland,etc or been in one of the mafias in Italy

Likewise,would you agree that a guy who for example lives in Binghamton,associates and has partnerships with Binghamton or Bufalino Family could actually be made with one of the 5 Families or Maggadino, or NJ or some other family that does have a flag planted in NYS ?

Havana, let me put it another way for you, ok.

I'm sure there were many knockaround guys from upstate NY who were met, or become friends, with mafiosi from many different cities and states throughout the U.S. Why not? Thats not hard to believe, because through the course of one's lifetime, through sheer happenstance, through blood or mutual friendships, we meet folks, and relationships start.

As a kid through a neighborhood friend who has a cousin of his visiting from Brooklyn (who grows up to become somebody,) as a young man in the U.S. Armed Services where you meet a fellow soldier in your platoon or on your ship who, in later life, becomes a top guy (who you had been friendly with,) through a job, etc., etc.

There are one million-and-one ways for two people to meet. Thats a given, right?

But that does not mean they were "partners" with one another in any activity or business. And even if they were, one individual (out-of-town mafioso) to another individual, does NOT mean his respective Mafia family from out-of-town had no "planted their flag." Thats NOT considered an "incursion" into a territory where a faction of that said Mafia Family is now operating on that territory.

It that were the case, the given benchmark, where Dows it stop? That means that every family potentially operated everywhere. And we know thats not the case.

Havana, a perfect example of what we're discussing above would be the City of Syracuse, where, as you know, there were many different threads of their underworld that led to guys from many other cities.

I was thinking of it as being more like a made guy from Chicago ends up living in lets say Saratoga,where maybe the Genovese have a flag
The Genovese boss and the Chicago boss both agree that this Chicago made guy can run a string of strip clubs in Saratoga or whatever other business he has talents for,whether illegal or semi legal. Perhaps the case is that the Genovese think the business is a great idea,but have no local man of their own capable of running that business.

Both bosses, the Chicago boss and the Genovese agree and both agree that they get a piece from the profits even if the Genovese boss gets more than the Chicago boss.since the Genovese have the flag there
Also this guy from Chicago may or may not include Genovese Family Saratoga guys in the business as emplyees,managers,etc

So in other word a Chicago made guy is given the okay to operaate in a town that under Genovese jurisdiction,because the Genovese Family as well as the Chicago family will both profit in whatever prportionof the wealth they agree on?

If such an agreement existed would tht necessarily mean that in effect,the Chicago Family now had planted a flag in Saratoga?

Havana, let me put it another way for you, ok.

I'm sure there were many knockaround guys from upstate NY who were met, or become friends, with mafiosi from many different cities and states throughout the U.S. Why not? Thats not hard to believe, because through the course of one's lifetime, through sheer happenstance, through blood or mutual friendships, we meet folks, and relationships start.

As a kid through a neighborhood friend who has a cousin of his visiting from Brooklyn (who grows up to become somebody,) as a young man in the U.S. Armed Services where you meet a fellow soldier in your platoon or on your ship who, in later life, becomes a top guy (who you had been friendly with,) through a job, etc., etc.

There are one million-and-one ways for two people to meet. Thats a given, right?

But that does not mean they were "partners" with one another in any activity or business. And even if they were, one individual (out-of-town mafioso) to another individual, does NOT mean his respective Mafia family from out-of-town had no "planted their flag." Thats NOT considered an "incursion" into a territory where a faction of that said Mafia Family is now operating on that territory.

It that were the case, the given benchmark, where Dows it stop? That means that every family potentially operated everywhere. And we know thats not the case.

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It would help if you define what you mean by planting a flag

How does it work if for example a professional card cheat is skilled in cheating at high stakes card games or crooked crap games.That guy is, for example, a made guy with the Magaddinos or say the Bonnanos

But he travels with his own little crew of cheats from city to city all over the country, often operating in cities where other families have flags planted
I would assume that there has to be some kind of agreement worked out between his boss and the boss of the family whose flag is planted in each city

It would help if you define what you mean by planting a flag

How does it work if for example a professional card cheat is skilled in cheating at high stakes card games or crooked crap games.That guy is, for example, a made guy with the Magaddinos or say the Bonnanos

But he travels with his own little crew of cheats from city to city all over the country, often operating in cities where other families have flags planted
I would assume that there has to be some kind of agreement worked out between his boss and the boss of the family whose flag is planted in each city


[/quote]

In my opinion, and in my usage of the term "planting a flag," I am referring to an out-of-town Family that curved out a territory of its own within a certain jurisdiction.

Good examples of what I'm talking about would be NJ's DeCavalcante Family. They established a beachhead and took control over an entire town or county for themselves - Waterbury, CT. There Family underboss Joe LaSelva and his two brothers all (lifelong residents of Waterbury) with their crew became the acknowledged powers in that area. The "LaSelva Regime" ran that area exclusively for decades.

Other great examples of this would be NY's Genovese Family, whose two capos, Frank Iaconi and Salvatore Cufari, reigned over the New England cities of Worcester and Springfield, Massachusetts, respectively.

There are many other examples of this, where an entire out-of-town (or out-of-state) "crew" established themselves into an area and started up a "satellite" regime.

But one single guy going partners with a local resident doesnt fall into that category.