A RAT IS A RAT IS A RAT!

A rat is a rat is a rat! Regardless of who they may have ratted on. There is NO distinction made between informers based on who they happen to give up. There is no line in the sand drawn that differentiates between the depth of rats or their levels of informing, of “how much” of a rat they were.

If you opened your mouth about anyone at all, regardless of who they may have been, then you’re a piece of shit.

Whether a given rat provided information to the authorities about a top Italian Mafia boss or a soldier, a top Jewish associate, a peripheral hanger-on, a corrupt politician or cop, or he spilled his guts against a lowly destitute Bowery Bum, that guy has now become, in the eyes of everyone who counts and pays attention to such things, a confirmed stool pigeon!

There is no such thing as, “I only gave them certain things” or “I only gave up a black guy” or “I only gave up a Jewish ‘associate, not an ‘inducted’ Mafia member.” Or, “He was a nobody, so who cares? It really doesn’t count as ratting.”

Once you open your mouth and give information against another person, any other person, then you’re a fucking rat…period!

And that is, hands down, an ironclad and non-negotiable fact of life…fact of street life…and a fact of “The Life.”

Here’s another weak excuse, “I only gave him up because the guy did this, that, and the other thing to me.” Or, “I only talked to the cops this one time because of the circumstances involved. But I’d never do it again, I’m not a rat”

The fact is that once is enough. In fact, once is more than enough! And another fact of life is that if you did it once, then under the right circumstances, you’d do it all over again.

Like I said, “A Rat is a Rat is a Rat!”

And there is no two ways about that!…End of story!
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@NYM whats your opinion on the court case in which Outfit top boss Paul Ricca confirmed to prosecutors that he and acting boss Jack Cerone were present during a meeting with Louie Bombacino (informant and court witness against them)? Because of that Ricca was released while Cerone was sent to jail, but keep in mind that Ricca had serious health issues at the time and was placed in "corner" by investigators, and was still at the top of the organization, meaning the role of the acting boss was to protect the real top admin. So was Ricca a rat in that particular situation?

I don't know the exact particulars about that situation, but that aside, knowing what I do about the mechanics of these types of things, I'd have to say that Ricca was definitely NOT any type of informer or cooperator. I'm sure there were conversations held between Ricca, Cerone, Accardo and other top figures in their administration who vetted and pre-approved such a move for the "greater good" for the Outfit.

I agree and on top of that it was Cerone's mistake for vouching to bring a low level member in a business convo with the Outfits top boss and possibly thats why some guys were mad at Cerone at the time. Although on the other hand, Ricca couldve kept his mouth shut and die in jail, but as you already said it was for the greater good for the organization.

Any street guy who reports on the life is a rat. Period

100%...in any way, shape or form.

Just my two cents..dont forget that the so-called "Life" is evil and deceiving, and also dont forget that because of those same "rats", today we have these mob books, movies, forums, documentaries and all types of sites which in turn gives us at least 90% knowledge on how the US Mafia looked like or still looks from the inside.

You make some good points, however we don't need every rat that comes out the woodwork to have good entertainment. Most of them actually offer us nothing. A few are valuable in that regard. The rates at which guys are flipping these days? It's gut-wrenching and disgusting.

I completely agree with the "we dont need every rat" statement.

I wholeheartedly agree with you. Some people are overly passionate about what a rat is. People who claim to be "street guys". I'm not saying any names, but my comment was aimed at them

+1

But if, as you say, a rat is a rat, then imo there is no excuse for Ricca either. If "for the greater good of the organization" is a "justifiable" excuse for giving someone up, then someone could argue that other excuses you listed above would be "valid" also.

What if a group of top leaders agree that certain information can be given because it will not hurt anyone, or if a dying guy says "Give them my name for a few old crimes" I don't consider that ratting, Vito Genovese had guy who he would tell to talk to the FBI, but the guy would give nothing significant. The guy would report back to Genovese and tell hi what they seemed interested in. Genovese would use that info to see who might be pointing them at it. I think in the end, they (The Mafia) decide who is a rat, not us.

In Ricca's case, the information he gave definitely hurt Cerone, even though Cerone had no choice but to accept it. If what Ricca did was not ratting just because he was the boss and had the supreme authority to decide who is a rat and who isn't, then by that logic Joe Massino could also say he isn't a rat because "the boss is the boss" and can do whatever he wants.

We don't know the "true" story behind this entire scenario or even the conversation that took place. We don't even know that anything close to what is purported to have happened, actually happened. Or even what Ricca "supposedly" said or didn't say, understand my thinking here Dwalin?

So this is really all conjecture on all of our parts. Yet, Paul Ricca was a very highly respected mafioso, a boss no less. Over one of the most powerful crews in the U.S., not to mention that fact that he was also a card-carrying member of The National Commission.

So I seriously doubt the context in which he said what he said (or even whether he said anything at all, let alone something along those lines.)

Because if he did say something so off-color as that, or cajoled Cerone into taking the fall like that, boss or no boss, Paul Ricca woulda got hit right in the fucking head!

Especially back in those days...So I take it all with a huge grain of salt.

I understand what you are saying and agree we can't know what Ricca actually said in the meeting with other gangsters, but if he confirmed to prosecutors (as Toodoped said) the information about Cerone, then the thing is on record and became known to public at least after the trial. While I agree it's the mafia that decides what is acceptable for the organization, but if we apply the rigid logic of "no ratting whatever the circumstances" to every single gangster, then what Ricca did was at least controversial in my opinion.

I don't mean to start an argument or anything like that, but that's what I think...

Organized crime can't even function without some level of cooperation with law enforcement, that's what many people just can't seem to understand. This is why you had and have so many CI's, feeding law enforcement tidbits of information so they can stay on the streets and keep operating. At least that's what I think.

There is absolutely NO excuse for informing or ratting. But we don't know that about him....at all. As I say, I take ALL of that with a gigantic dose of salt where Ricca is concerned.

For me, a lot of what has been said about many guys over the years, not just about this subject of ratting, (or not ratting,) but about a great many varied statements and things that guys supposedly did or said during their careers thats now become "gospel" to mob aficionados is a lot of hogwash.

(but thats a topic for another day)

But the bottom line is, as far as rats go..I'll say it one more time, "A RAT IS A RAT IS A RAT" - Period!

And thats the end of the fucking story!

I'm sorry Dwalin, but I see no comparison to what Massino did to this. He totally ratted after a conviction, and put a lot of his guys own prison, and even wore a wire in his cell, trying to get his underboss on tape.

You took the words right out of my mouth Jace, I was gonna say something similar but decided to let it go.

I am with Toodoped on this one. This is an evil life and should not be celebrated. If you agree with that, you should also understand that the mob would still be flourishing if it weren't for the cooperators. You can debate until you're blue in the face about what type of people cooperators are, but you can't deny the facts. No one is rooting for the cooperators (who are also criminals and sociopaths), but rooting for the mob is just retarded.

Not everyone in it is evil, that's silly. Bookies, numbers runners, even union guys, most are good. Who bets? Are they evil too? The rats tend to be the ones who were evil, yet they walk free, plus lie by saying what they are told to say for their deal to walk free. LE has always leaked stories to news reporters that exaggerate only the worst of the life, suckers eat it up as truth.

I never called the guys evil. I said the life was evil. There have been plenty of people who became part of the street who were essentially good guys

I agree with @Giacalone. We are talking about people who kill or steal, just so they can go up in some stupid and deceiving organization. And yeah union guys can be evil too because they are able to steal from the workers mouth, same as gamblers who destroy whole families and do terrible things because of their debts. In fact thats how rats are born. Now THATs silly. Lol

Well said. Also, one of the worst things the mob is guilty of is extorting legitimate people. Yes, some came to them for protection and certain favors, but many didn't. We are talking about good people who really didn't do anything wrong except live in a mobbed up area of town. These are things a lot of mob groupies refuse to talk about

Bingo! And in the old days, maybe not so much nowadays, but in the old days...back in the early 1900s thru the 1950s era, many guys grew up in a poverty few of us could even imagine today.

So it might have not been a "pass" per se, but there was a damn good reason why many of them went into the line of "work" they did.

In the year approaching 2024? Not so much!

Whats that old adage? "Before you try and pass judgement on me, go walk a mile in my shoes...even though I grew up mostly barefoot."

that (the systematic extortion)is a prerogative of the Italian mafia, especially Cosa Nostra but also Ndrangheta and Camorra