Rot in Hell MMD.

Only God can judge him.

Always!

Mere mortals often take the liberty to judge others, but really don't have that right.

Horrible tragedy. All of Italy is in mourning right now

Are you okay in the head sir? A man just died

Yeah how some people can say that when the government is just as depraved is beyond me. Just wait until they really eradicate organized crime, you're going to see what we're left with and how the world really won't be any better. In fact it will be worse.

They won't eradicate it, they don't want to. Organized crime and the government depend on each other, even though somebody is sacrificed from time to time. Many members of the government and law enforcement are organized crime members themselves.

However, I agree with Furio: rot in hell Matteo Messina Denaro, and may your politician friends join you soon!

Yeah he was a horrible person can't deny that one.

A stone cold killer has died,a man would kill you and your family if he could think that would be a danger for him.

As several witnesses during Stato-Mafia trial said: "Real power behind 'Ndrangheta are people that don't even have a parking ticket". Usually members of law enforcement , secret services etc.

Sicilian Mafia boss Matteo Messina Denaro dies in prison at 61 https://gangstersinc.org/blog/sicilian-mafia-boss-matteo-messina-denaro-dies-in-prison-at-61

Organized crime can never be eradicated at most. There will always be people who follow the easy way to make money and always corrupt people at high levels who will accept their money.
jJst look at how Italy was in the 1980s and how it is now.
The mafia, although it has managed to reorganize itself, will no longer regain the power it had before. even the ndrangheta, which is the most powerful of the mafias, is experiencing an increase in the number of pentiti due to the fact that it can no longer act in the shadows as before.
The LE in Italy are doing an excellent job and now politicians are no longer as untouchable as they once were.

The politicians still rarely do real prison time, usually it's just house arrest and playing the victim card of "oh, we are over 70 years old and can't handle prison conditions" (many of the most important Italian politician criminals are over 70, yet the judges think that should be enough to give them an out-of-jail free card, making the whole antimafia fight against corrupt politicians somehow almost pointless). Apart from Nicola Cosentino (camorra) and Antonio D'Ali' (Cosa Nostra), I don't think there have been any recent imprisonments of politicians. Unfortunately, I think even Giancarlo Pittelli in the "Rinascita Scott" 'ndrangheta trial will most likely get himself acquitted, that freemason bastard...

Whole D'Ali family deserves prison time. They are involved in mafia,politics and freemasonry for over 50 years now.

I remember reading somewhere, somebody said that "there will be a real change and improvement in the fight against the mafia, NOT when the last fugitive will be arrested, but when the first politician who protected them will be arrested". To this, I would add that there woul be a real change for the better when the first national-level politician will finally get a murder conviction in the 41bis hard prison regime.

Unfortunately, many naive people honestly don't believe (or pretend not to) that politicians have ordered many mafia murders during Toto' Riina's time in power. They would deserve 41bis, not that bullshit "house arrest" where they are even allowed to leave their houses sometimes and there are no guards at the doors.

In my opinion, a murder sentence for a politician wouldn't be a "dishonor" or "scandal" for the country at all, but a sign of honesty and the proof that the law finally started working for everyone, just this once. Unfortunately, most likely this will never happen. Only Giulio Andreotti once came close when he was sentenced to 24 years for murder, but the supreme court got him off, they thought it would be too "scandalous" to convict for murder somebody who has been the Italian prime minister 7 times.

I don't know to me they're all just as bad. People act like without organized crime we're going to have this wonderful utopia. A lot of the evildoings in the world has nothing to do with illegal organized crime groups, it's just politicians, bankers, and big business.

Riina just did the dirty job, orders came from secret services,politicians etc.


Paolo Borsellino brother Salvatore said this after arrest of Matteo Messina Denaro:

Before being killed my brother said "when I am killed it will have been the Mafia who killed me, but it will have been others who wanted my death"; today one of the main perpetrators of the massacre in which my brother lost his life is in prison, but unfortunately there are too many mysteries about who wanted Paul's death.What changes today? It changes little, the fact that Messina Denaro has been arrested means that there is someone who replaces him. Not only that, there is the serious suspicion that this arrest is the result, once again, of an unholy negotiation in the face of the concession of points from Riina's papello.

I don't believe there are still negotiations between mafia and state like he said , arrest of Messina Denaro was a setup, but other than that i don't think so. But i fully believe we will never find out who really wanted them dead.

That's true, but I still think that politicians, bankers etc and organized crime wouldn't be able to exist without each other. If organized crime disappeared completely for some reason, the whole political establishment would collapse due to the ties they had to them, this would give people a good possibility to replace the former state with new, honest people. But yeah, this would be an utopia, which never happens. Especially because often people who are originally honest, get corrupted when they gain power and importance. Honest and moral people are marginalized in politics, often even killed.

Honest and moral people usually don't get involved with politics at all.

I agree, the so-called "excellent" murders like Falcone and Borsellino or Rocco Chinnici were certainly ordered by somebody from the state. However, Riina also did a big bloodbath on his own, he wiped out the whole "old mafia" which were hundreds of deaths, if not more, imo it's unlikely that the mafia war was overseen by the state because the former bosses had a better relationship with the government than Riina had, the destruction of the old mafia gave problems to them as well.
However, I agree that later on they certainly tried to exploit Riina as well to get rid of honest magistrates like Falcone, Borsellino, Chinnici etc

Yes, but if they are idealist or naive, they sometimes try, only to be disappointed, marginalized or murdered.

Like i said in previous thread when Matteo ordered a hit on Nino Di Matteo , he said same people who wanted Falcone & Borselino dead requested it and it had to be done , that means those people are still "in the game".I agree with you completely , Riina and Corleonesi did mafia war on their own , later once they became powerful , they were used to get rid of honest magistrates.

I just don't believe what Borsellino's brother said about negotiations between mafia and state , i think that all stopped in the 90's.

The murder of Rocco Chinnici, who was the head of the "antimafia pool", was supposedly organized by Nino Salvo and Ignazio Salvo, very powerful mafiosi from Salemi, who were close to Giulio Andreotti and once had a journalist (Mino Pecorelli) killed for him, according to Tommaso Buscetta. Wouldn't surprise me if Andreotti was involved in the Chinnici massacre too, he was probably the most powerful Cosa Nostra politician at the time (or 1 of the most powerful at least, that's for sure)

Speaking of the mafia-state negotiations trial (processo trattativa stato-mafia), it's interesting that 1 of the defendants, the general Antonio Subranni, was deeply involved in the mafia since the 1970s at least: when in 1978 Gaetano Badalamenti had the anti-mafia activist Giuseppe Impastato killed, Subranni directed the investigations away from Badalamenti, telling everybody Impastato was a terrorist who accidentally blew himself up, so it was no murder at all. And the other defendant, the general Mario Mori, had chances to arrest both Provenzano and Messina Denaro, yet willingly chose not to do so. Corrupt cops are even worse than "normal" criminals in many ways imo....

They should be viewed by honest law enforcement members in the same way as criminals view rats/informants

I agree , if you are a cop , be a cop , if you are a criminal , be a criminal. Most of criminals start ratting after their arrest , they would continue doing what they do whole life if they didn't get arrested.


Andreotti was most powerful Cosa Nostra politician for sure, after him it was Berlusconi. There are businessman/secret service members who are even more powerful than politicians i believe , but we don't know about them at all.

Messina Denaro is the man with brown jacket.