Wiseguys Rejoice at Seeing NYC Mafia Buster Rudy Giuliani Indicted on Trump RICO Charge
'They're f--- thrilled,' veteran mob lawyer Murray Richman said of the Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations rap out of Georgia tied to 2020 election

https://themessenger.com/news/wiseg...source=onsite&utm_medium=latest_news

Thats a thousand percent correct, Hollander....No, I have to retract that statement. Make that one-million percent!

Because wiseguys all over the place, buy especially NY wise guys old enough to know his history, or to have been burned by him, are celebrating now that Rudy got it stuck to him (with the same type of RICO laws he tortured many of them with.)

As they say, "What goes around, comes around."

Maybe he'll go "on the lam" and get a Wanted Poster put out on him....lol.

LOL

But I do think it is a bit of a stretch to use RICO, no threats, violence, extortion etc...a criminal organization IDK..

Many of those indicted are lawyers btw.

They don’t give a flying fuck !

If it’s not costing them money right this minute then they have no clue.

Possibly 10% remember anything about it , only what the boys tell them that were around .

I'd caution against rushing to his defense, H. It's largely because of Giuliani that many good people have had no chance of a defense. Merely because they happened to shake hands with the wrong guy or sit on the wrong couch. The RICO Act deems one culpable even in the absence of direct involvement. How is that not unconstitutional? The fact that Giuliani is finally experiencing his own medicine is so wonderfully beautiful that articulating it adequately becomes difficult.

I believe many people fail to grasp the true peril posed by the RICO act. The current situation involving Trump and Giuliani serves as a vivid illustration. None of us wish to witness such occurrences within our great nation. This dangerous legislation can essentially be wielded to bring charges against anyone for virtually any reason! I've witnessed its application against realtors and individuals with no discernible ties to organized crime whatsoever.

These politicians are far worse than all those mob bosses brought down by RICO. They are RICO.

Rudy may look around, get scared, and rat! He'll lie, as many rats do. I can imagine him saying in his first interview: " I realized that the life wasn't what I thought it was. In The Republican Party they are all out for themselves, and Trump and others were setting me up to take the rap. It was all their fault.....if Donald ashy listened to me and been more low key we would have been fine.. it was all his fault...."

In a few years him and Gravano will share a podcast.

I don't really think Blakely understood what it was going to become. In another article, which I can't find right now, he said something to the effect that RICO is being used in ways it was never intended (civil cases, etc. ) But that's what happens when lawmakers create a totally ridiculous law like RICO for one specific group of people. A law which is "virtually impossible to defend." The one in this case, of course, is Georgia's version, but the sentiment is the same.

A lot of guys are happy. But an indictment is not a conviction. If convicted hopefully he gets a strong sentence like the ones who didn't deserve those harsh sentences.

And this is not G. Robert Blakey's "federal" version of RICO, but a "state" version crafted by the State of Georgia. But most states do follow the general format crafted by Blakey and their RICO Law pretty much mirrors the fed's version.

I know that NYS's RICO Law can be extremely difficult to shake loose from and that some of its penalties upon conviction are sometimes even harsher than the Federal version.

I also read that under Georgia's RICO Law, conviction on ANY of the various counts Trump, Giuliani and the others are charged with calls for a "mandatory minimum" of 5 years imprisonment.

So Giuliani and the others are truly facing an uphill battle.

Welcome to RICO fellas! Lol. Now they're gonna get a taste of the draconian "destroy em at all costs" law the government allowed to be enacted years back.

I wonder how good ole' Rudy's feeling about now?

100%

Giuliani getting charged with RICO is almost hysterically funny. In some way it's the "reap what you sow" saying come to life.
Though whatever punishment he may or may not receive of it...I doubt it's gonna be adequate enough to compensate for all the shit he pulled or for all those years he walked around with that smug smirk on his face.

He destroyed a lot of guys...while the cameras shined on his stupid face. Lol.

And I'm not talkin' just about mob guys either (although he tortured many "good" guys over shit charges,) but lots of relatives of innocent of guys, friends, and fellas on the rim because it made him look like the ultimate " Racket Buster."

So, as far as I'm concerned? This present "problem" he's now facing, couldn't have happened to a nicer guy. Lol

Couldn't have said it better myself. The amount of innocent people who've been railroaded by RICO is astronomical. Fuck this guy! Lol

True, he was even granted an award by the Italian government. Later, as New York City mayor, he turned his use of the anti-racketeering law into a vote-getter, presenting himself as the hero of Rico.

1000% Bo, 1000%!...It seems we're simpatico on this issue. And as you so aptly put it, ""Fuck this guy!"" LOL

How much difference is there between fed and state rico?

My husband is currently facing 11 state rico charges in NJ. NJ seems pretty harsh with their rico penalties. The judge has said if my husband were to be found guilty on all 11 charges and given max sentences, it would be 113 years for those 11 charges, which is ridiculous, but that's by the book.

The others that are facing charges along with my husband (the enterprise, as they are referred to), are all going to be on trial at the same time, together, like they want to do with Trump's case.
Also, the way the NJ prosecutor wrote up her one plea offer that they each got, it's contingent on all defendants taking their plea or nobody can. I don't know if that's part of rico or not, or if that will change at any point, but that's how she wrote it up.

Before this, I hadn't even realized rico can be on a state level. "Little RICO" it's sometimes referred to as.

He was, and is, a complete phony.

The particulars of "State" RICO laws can, and do, vary from state to state. I'm not sure about the nuances of NJ's RICO law, but, as I've said earlier, the RICO law in some states can actually be harsher for some convictions than the Feds.

As far as facing 113 years in jail. Thats all BS, and just law enforcement's attempt to scare defendants into pleading out. Technically, if the judge went back to back on all counts and "ran em wild" then a guy could get that. (But that never happens Carmela, so don't worry about that.)

And lastly, as to the matter of ALL defendants having to cop a plea, or nobody gets to plea? Thats called a "global plea deal."

The reason why prosecutors will sometimes try and pull that is because they wanna try and quickly "wrap up" the entire case and get done with it. So they pressure defendants who wanna play ball, to pressure their fellow codefendants to cop out also. It's a relatively common government tactic.

Sometimes that sticks. Sometimes the prosecutors soften their position about that....time will tell.

The federal RICO Act, written by Blakey, was on the books for more than a decade but never used because US Attorneys weren't sure how to apply it. Giuliani, as US Attorney for the Southern District of NY, read in Joe Bonanno's autobiograhy, "A Man of Honor" (yeah, right) a description of the Commission a classic example of a "Racketeer Influenced Corrupt Organization." He called in Blakey to coach his team and him for the Commission case. Law is a competitive business, and witht that success, US Attorneys all over the country were falling over each other to bring RICO cases against OC. States got into the act with their own RICO legislation for the same reason--and not onlly against OC, just anything that'd make headlines and earn promotions.

One of the big reasons RICO appeals to prosecutors is the ease of convicting or coercing defendants as being part of a "conspiracy." In a conspiracy case, the prosecution doesn't have to prove that you committed a crime--only that you were conspiring with others to commit a crime or crimes. And, if the case goes to trial, the judge will allow 'uncorroborated testimony from unindicted co-conspirators." That's a fancy way of saying that if you're the chief defendant, and the prosecution thinks I was in it with you, they'll pull me in, threaten to indict me for the same double-digit-sentence crime--and then offer to not indict me in return for my cooperation with them. In other words, they can ocerce me into testifying against you. And when I do, they won't have to produce a corroborating withness who'll back up my testimony, as they'd have to in a standard felong.

You guys...are aware that you're cheering for the government, right?

You're bitching about RICO, yet cheering for a case, that if the G wins, will empower State Government beyond anything we've ever imagined.

With these comments I don't think most people are focused on whether the G wins or not, per se. But I do think all these rants, which are specifically directed against Giuliani, just go to show how truly despised and disliked this man really is.

Not only by organized crime figures, but by politicians, business people, and the general public also.

This prick hurt an awful lot of people on his way up...so, now, all those same people are clapping and smiling as he falls like a rock.

Thank you, NYMafia for your insight. I do understand the all-or-nothing plea deals, especially if there is one defendant in particular they'd like to try and squeeze out to take a plea, and have the co-defendants put pressure on that one. My husband couldn't take his anyway, bc as she has his offer written, if he accepted, he'd be deported. He's a legal resident, perm green card, but not US citizen, and any sentence over one year, would be grounds for deportation. I'm hoping between now and trial date she comes up with something he can take without affecting his status in the US. I think she's hell bent on going to trial though, but as you say, time will tell.

As for Giuliani, my father was the court clerk for the Southern District of NY for 35 years, and the Commission case was his trial. His judge (judge Owen) had a real personal beef with mobsters and no tolerance. That's why he never granted any bail, and sentenced them all as severely as he did.

It's called "judge shopping." And the G does it all the time to throw off the playing field in their favor. It often becomes a "kangaroo court" because of that.

In this case I don't mind it the man of "Law and Order" turns out to be a crook himself lol.