Found this article:

"CAMP BUEHRING, Kuwait (Dec. 8) - After delivering a pep talk designed to energize troops preparing to head for Iraq, Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld got a little "talking to" himself from disgruntled soldiers.

In his prepared remarks, Rumsfeld urged the troops - mostly National Guard and Reserve soldiers - to discount critics of the war in Iraq and to help "win the test of wills" with the insurgents.

Some of soldiers, however, had criticisms of their own - not of the war itself but of how it is being fought.

Army Spc. Thomas Wilson, for example, of the 278th Regimental Combat Team that is comprised mainly of citizen soldiers of the Tennessee Army National Guard, asked Rumsfeld in a question-and-answer session why vehicle armor is still in short supply, nearly three years after the war in Iraq.

"Why do we soldiers have to dig through local landfills for pieces of scrap metal and compromised ballistic glass to uparmor our vehicles?" Wilson asked. A big cheer arose from the approximately 2,300 soldiers in the cavernous hangar who assembled to see and hear the secretary of defense.

Rumsfeld hesitated and asked Wilson to repeat his question.

"We do not have proper armored vehicles to carry with us north," Wilson said after asking again.

Rumsfeld replied that, "You go to war with the Army you have," not the one you might want, and that any rate the Army was pushing manufacturers of vehicle armor to produce it as fast as humanly possible.

And, the defense chief added, armor is not always a savior in the kind of combat U.S. troops face in Iraq, where the insurgents' weapon of choice is the roadside bomb, or improvised explosive device that has killed and maimed hundreds, if not thousands, of American troops since the summer of 2003.

"You can have all the armor in the world on a tank and it can (still) be blown up," Rumsfeld said.

Asked later about Wilson's complaint, the deputy commanding general of U.S. forces in Kuwait, Maj. Gen. Gary Speer, said in an interview that as far as he knows, every vehicle that is deploying to Iraq from Camp Buehring in Kuwait has at least "Level 3" armor. That means it at least has locally fabricated armor for its side panels, but not necessarily bulletproof windows or protection against explosions that penetrate the floorboard.

Speer said he was not aware that soldiers were searching landfills for scrap metal and used bulletproof glass.

During the question-and-answer session, another soldier complained that active-duty Army units sometimes get priority over the National Guard and Reserve units for the best equipment in Iraq.

"There's no way I can prove it, but I am told the Army is breaking its neck to see that there is not" discrimination against the National Guard and Reserve in terms of providing equipment, Rumsfeld said.

Yet another soldier asked, without putting it to Rumsfeld as a direct criticism, how much longer the Army will continue using its "stop loss" power to prevent soldiers from leaving the service who are otherwise eligible to retire or quit.

Rumsfeld said that this condition was simply a fact of life for soldiers at time of war.

"It's basically a sound principle, it's nothing new, it's been well understood" by soldiers, he said. "My guess is it will continue to be used as little as possible, but that it will continue to be used."

In his opening remarks, Rumsfeld stressed that soldiers who are heading to Iraq should not believe those who say the insurgents cannot be defeated or who otherwise doubt the will of the military to win.

"They say we can't prevail. I see that violence and say we must win," Rumsfeld said.

Interesting article! Would you mind telling me where you found it or perhaps provide me with a link? I would appreciate it!


Don Cardi

Are these Earth years?

I saw this on MSNBC this morning. Rumsfeld looked utterly shocked that he got a negative question thrown at him. He's used to nothing but praise from his troops. I guess a little slap of reality was more then he could take. He must have thought it was just another photo op.

This is from CNN. Also FYI, did anyone see 60 minutes sunday about all these reserves getting called back after completing there service and retiring??? No back door draft????? Right! :rolleyes:


http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/12/08/rumsfeld.troops.ap/index.html


TIS

Finally! Now these are some smart troops. What's his address? I would like to send him a case of lip balm.

Nice work boys! Bringing it back to "man".

Doc

I got it from AOL

Yes, I found it after I posted. Thanks Irishman!

Very, Very interesting stuff. Good for those soldiers! I commend them! They have every right to ask those questions of Rumsfeld! After all, they are the ones out there!


Don Cardi

They ARE some smart troops Doc! As I posted above they have every right to ask those questions. Oh, Doc, as for the case of lip balm, don't send it to Rumsfeld, send it to the soldiers, they asked for it and need it more than he does!


Don Cardi

I LOVE this part of the article. "I see that violence and say we must win!" Then get from behind your desk & grab a gun!

They ARE some smart troops Doc! As I posted above they have every right to ask those questions. Oh, Doc, as for the case of lip balm, don't send it to Rumsfeld, send it to the soldiers, they asked for it and need it more than he does!


Don Cardi [/b][/quote]I meant the troops Cardi. By "his" address I was implying the first soldier who started asking Rumsfeld these questions.

Doc

This was covered on the BBC last night. Fair play to that soldier for having the cojones to stand up and question the people who make the decisions. All politicians (esp those we agree with) deserve a slap of reality now and again.

These two remarks in particular strike me as kind of cold and uncaring. More or less saying "quit your whining".


"You go to war with the Army you have," not the one you might want.." (easy for him to say)


"You can have all the armor in the world on a tank and it can (still) be blown up," Rumsfeld said." (So what? Let's just be lax on on equipment our troops need?)

That's a huge comfort. :rolleyes:

TIS

how about his statement about bin ladin?

"he's either dead, or he's alive and injured, or he's alive."

that reminded me of schrödinger's cat that is dead and alive at the same time ;-)

These guys deserve to speak, after all, they're the ones laying their lives on the line to fight for Rumsfeld. As one soldier said in the NY Times today, they had a big cavalcade of armored humvees for Rumsfeld, but that's more than he's ever seen for actual in-combat movements.

Is this a case of the troops themselves not supporting the troops? I haven't heard many conservative voices on this one. Finally DJ!

It seems that when I hear: "Support our Troops", it often comes from someone that wants to keep them out there in harms way, while those against the war are "not supporting the troops."

Maybe this twisted logic will finally get untwisted?

As I've explained before, I want our troops out. I don't think Rumsfeld has done a good job, and clearly army brass has the wool pulled over his eyes with regards to these big cavalcades that somehow "represent" the real equipment being used by our troops.

I think that's great. If the reporter would have probably lost his job then those damn questions better be asked by someone, somehow. If it took this, then great, it's rediculous that this had to be done just to publically ask Rumsfelt these questions. Thats one hell of a good reporter. Good job guys!

The Doc