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Re: John Gottis height of power. Just how influential? [Re: RushStreet] #1059312
05/15/23 02:21 AM
05/15/23 02:21 AM
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They didn't kill him because he was on camera 24-7, but really showed that they meant business with the DeCicco bombing. And are we really going to compare some drug street gangs and Latin Bolita operators to the Mafia? The mob never has nor will it ever control everything, but neither do the other groups you're comparing them to, which aren't anywhere near as sophisticated. The mob has bigger fish to fry than to worry about every little drug deal or gambling operation going on.

Re: John Gottis height of power. Just how influential? [Re: RushStreet] #1059314
05/15/23 02:37 AM
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Also, Gotti was only on the streets for 5 years. Had he lasted longer, they would've gotten him eventually. Either that or there would've been some kind of big meeting agreeing to let it go.

Re: John Gottis height of power. Just how influential? [Re: Iceveins] #1059345
05/15/23 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Iceveins
Originally Posted by jace
Originally Posted by JCrusher
He wasn’t the most powerful but he certainly was the most high profile. Most of it was his own doing



It was the media chasing him, not the other way ariound. It was also the FBI, prosecutors, and the police leaking things about him on a daily basis. That was not Gotti's own doing. Maybe you think he was supposed to hide in his home all day and night with the shades drawn.
You can't possibly really believe this....
So his $2,000 dollar suits, daily haircuts, never making even the slightest attempt to avoid publicity, huge smiles everytime cameras were on him, responding with a smart remark to as many questions from reporters as he could, was all THEIR doing and not Gotti clearly drawing attention to himself, welcoming them at his home, the Ravenite, the grocery store and whenever else and fueling them to keep the cameras on him? Ok.

Funny how cameras never chased Paul Castellano everywhere he went...or Tony Corallo...or Funzi Tieri.....or Carmine Persico....shall I keep going?

Re: John Gottis height of power. Just how influential? [Re: RushStreet] #1059347
05/15/23 03:13 PM
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La di da di, free John Gotti
La di da di, la di
La di da di, free John Gotti
The King of New York
The King of New York
La di da di, free John Gotti
La di da di, la di
La di da di, free John Gotti
The King of New York
Man the King of New York - Fun Lovin Criminals grin


He who can never endure the bad will never see the good
Re: John Gottis height of power. Just how influential? [Re: Iceveins] #1059348
05/15/23 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Iceveins
Originally Posted by Iceveins
Originally Posted by jace
Originally Posted by JCrusher
He wasn’t the most powerful but he certainly was the most high profile. Most of it was his own doing



It was the media chasing him, not the other way ariound. It was also the FBI, prosecutors, and the police leaking things about him on a daily basis. That was not Gotti's own doing. Maybe you think he was supposed to hide in his home all day and night with the shades drawn.
You can't possibly really believe this....
So his $2,000 dollar suits, daily haircuts, never making even the slightest attempt to avoid publicity, huge smiles everytime cameras were on him, responding with a smart remark to as many questions from reporters as he could, was all THEIR doing and not Gotti clearly drawing attention to himself, welcoming them at his home, the Ravenite, the grocery store and whenever else and fueling them to keep the cameras on him? Ok.

Funny how cameras never chased Paul Castellano everywhere he went...or Tony Corallo...or Funzi Tieri.....or Carmine Persico....shall I keep going?



They went crazy with Gotti. They had cases that stuck against Corello and Tieri, ad by the way, they had them all on tapes too. So Gotti was not the only one recorded. He got daily haircuts? So what? He did try to avoid publicity's s I said he tried to avoid them but the reporters were tipped off to where he would be.


As for you saying this:

"..responding with a smart remark to as many questions from reporters as he could,"

you are wrong again. He might give a comment, but he would keep walking to avoid them . Look at every video of him , he never stopped for reporters. If you have one of him giving an interview, show it.


What is this:

"...welcoming them at his home.."

Huh??? Are you mixed up? He never welcomed them into his home, A video him and his family once took was put out by the feds, but not him. You have everything wrong.

Re: John Gottis height of power. Just how influential? [Re: RushStreet] #1059350
05/15/23 04:40 PM
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The guy was a Gangster period. How he chose to go about it was his choice and he never wavered, never cried, never ratted. He lived the life to the day he died. Whether anyone approves or not doesn't matter. He did it the way he wanted and those who disagreed with his style didn't have the balls to do anything about. The exception (and i believe this) is Bobby Manna. I have no doubt had he not gotten picked up on the wire planning the job he would have ensured an attempt was made on Gotti's life. If he failed, he would've tried again in my opinion until he was successful or an all out war between the two families erupted. No telling how that would've ended.

Re: John Gottis height of power. Just how influential? [Re: jace] #1059352
05/15/23 05:17 PM
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Originally Posted by jace
[quote=Iceveins][quote=Iceveins][quote=jace]

They went crazy with Gotti. They had cases that stuck against Corello and Tieri, ad by the way, they had them all on tapes too. So Gotti was not the only one recorded. He got daily haircuts? So what? He did try to avoid publicity's s I said he tried to avoid them but the reporters were tipped off to where he would be.


As for you saying this:

"..responding with a smart remark to as many questions from reporters as he could,"

you are wrong again. He might give a comment, but he would keep walking to avoid them . Look at every video of him , he never stopped for reporters. If you have one of him giving an interview, show it.


What is this:

"...welcoming them at his home.."

Huh??? Are you mixed up? He never welcomed them into his home, A video him and his family once took was put out by the feds, but not him. You have everything wrong.
I said at his home, not in his home. I have nothing wrong, in fact I was able to get private access to perhaps the biggest archive of network news footage of mobsters available on the internet. I usually only browse the footage pertaining to mobsters I'm doing biographies on, yet whenever I'm watching a news program discussing a mobster from the 80s/90s, no matter who, there goes a clip of Gotti's smug smiling face popping up showing him loving attention or blabbering to someone. It's alarming.

Before acting like you have seen all the footage of Gotti being an egotistical attention whore, I can assure you that haven't seen even 1/10th of all the footage of him welcoming the cameras, engaging the news crews and speaking to reporters like the bumbling blabbering narcissist he was.

Last edited by Iceveins; 05/15/23 05:19 PM.
Re: John Gottis height of power. Just how influential? [Re: RushStreet] #1059399
05/15/23 10:59 PM
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Iceviens, you now crossed over to being full of it. Plus saying I was "an egotistical attention whore," was uncalled for.

This sounds like BS:

"I was able to get private access to perhaps the biggest archive of network news footage of mobsters available on the internet."

If you looked through more footage than anyone, as you claim, and saw nothing but Gotti's face---well, there is my point. They focused on him, not the other way around.

Re: John Gottis height of power. Just how influential? [Re: jace] #1059400
05/15/23 11:32 PM
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Originally Posted by jace
Iceviens, you now crossed over to being full of it. Plus saying I was "an egotistical attention whore," was uncalled for.

This sounds like BS:

"I was able to get private access to perhaps the biggest archive of network news footage of mobsters available on the internet."

If you looked through more footage than anyone, as you claim, and saw nothing but Gotti's face---well, there is my point. They focused on him, not the other way around.

Dude, I called Gotti the egotistical attention whore. You don't have to believe what I have access to but you defending him by continuing to say they "focused on him" is rather absurd, they only focused on him because HE MADE THEM focus on him. He drew the attention to himself, nobody becomes a media darling unless they intentionally draw the spotlight to themselves and give the media something to be interested in.

Last edited by Iceveins; 05/15/23 11:34 PM.
Re: John Gottis height of power. Just how influential? [Re: RushStreet] #1059406
05/16/23 07:43 AM
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They made him a celebrity/posterboy the Mafia sells in particular in those crazy days. Now much less ofcourse only online on socials maybe but not for NY Post or NYDN.

Last edited by Hollander; 05/16/23 07:48 AM.

"The king is dead, long live the king!"
Re: John Gottis height of power. Just how influential? [Re: Hollander] #1059413
05/16/23 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Hollander
They made him a celebrity/posterboy the Mafia sells in particular in those crazy days. Now much less ofcourse only online on socials maybe but not for NY Post or NYDN.
He made himself the poster boy. Before Gotti, the only boss who garnered anywhere near the media attention that he did was Albert Anastasia and the fact that Anastasia also seemed to welcome the attention instead of avoiding it was one of several reasons that lead to his demise.

I've never seen any news footage of any other mob boss outside of courts or arrests and never seen a boss speak to reporters. If you put a little effort to avoid news coverage, you can, but Gotti made no such effort.

Last edited by Iceveins; 05/16/23 10:33 AM.
Re: John Gottis height of power. Just how influential? [Re: RushStreet] #1059431
05/16/23 05:30 PM
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Clearly this behavior was one of his mistakes.
With that said I don’t buy into they didn’t kill him because of the camera’s.
There weren’t many camera’s back then.

Why didn’t they kill Sammy then, why didn’t they kill Jr. then he was open game when he was involved in the life.

As for the guys they killed they were sneak attacks.
Casso knew very well the Gambino’s Gotti’s best friend tried to kill him, why didn’t Casso go after Angelo and atleast take a shot at him.

The only answer is they were afraid to go after the Gambino family head on, even the two families together.

Re: John Gottis height of power. Just how influential? [Re: Iceveins] #1059440
05/16/23 06:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Iceveins
Originally Posted by Hollander
They made him a celebrity/posterboy the Mafia sells in particular in those crazy days. Now much less ofcourse only online on socials maybe but not for NY Post or NYDN.
He made himself the poster boy. Before Gotti, the only boss who garnered anywhere near the media attention that he did was Albert Anastasia and the fact that Anastasia also seemed to welcome the attention instead of avoiding it was one of several reasons that lead to his demise.

I've never seen any news footage of any other mob boss outside of courts or arrests and never seen a boss speak to reporters. If you put a little effort to avoid news coverage, you can, but Gotti made no such effort.


Capone, Anastasia, Gotti you can compare them, the press/media made them stars but they also put themselves in the limelight.


"The king is dead, long live the king!"
Re: John Gottis height of power. Just how influential? [Re: Hollander] #1059442
05/16/23 06:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Hollander
Originally Posted by Iceveins
Originally Posted by Hollander
They made him a celebrity/posterboy the Mafia sells in particular in those crazy days. Now much less ofcourse only online on socials maybe but not for NY Post or NYDN.
He made himself the poster boy. Before Gotti, the only boss who garnered anywhere near the media attention that he did was Albert Anastasia and the fact that Anastasia also seemed to welcome the attention instead of avoiding it was one of several reasons that lead to his demise.

I've never seen any news footage of any other mob boss outside of courts or arrests and never seen a boss speak to reporters. If you put a little effort to avoid news coverage, you can, but Gotti made no such effort.


Capone, Anastasia, Gotti you can compare them, the press/media made them stars but they also put themselves in the limelight.
The press can't make a star that doesn't want to be one. There's a reason that out of the dozens of bosses there have been throughout the past century that the general public was only familiar with the 3 guys you've mentioned.

Re: John Gottis height of power. Just how influential? [Re: RushStreet] #1059444
05/16/23 06:51 PM
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I would also include Joe Colombo among the most "flashy" bosses who weren't low-profile and sought attention (or at least acted like it).


Willie Marfeo to Henry Tameleo:

1) "You people want a loaf of bread and you throw the crumbs back. Well, fuck you. I ain't closing down."

2) "Get out of here, old man. Go tell Raymond to go shit in his hat. We're not giving you anything."
Re: John Gottis height of power. Just how influential? [Re: Dwalin2011] #1059446
05/16/23 06:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Dwalin2011
I would also include Joe Colombo among the most "flashy" bosses who weren't low-profile and sought attention (or at least acted like it).
Absolutely. He was arguably the worst due to how intent he was on being in the spotlight.

Last edited by Iceveins; 05/16/23 07:02 PM.
Re: John Gottis height of power. Just how influential? [Re: RushStreet] #1059447
05/16/23 07:08 PM
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The reason Gotti wasn't killed was because for one he was always on camera and two he really wasn't on the streets for very long. The people who were after him also had other affairs to attend to within their own Families, killing Gotti wasn't top priority. But had he been on the streets for much longer my best bet was that he would've been killed, it was only a matter of time. The fact that Ruggiero and Gotti weren't killed comes down to sheer luck, not out of any fear they wielded.

Re: John Gottis height of power. Just how influential? [Re: RushStreet] #1059459
05/16/23 08:14 PM
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I disagree. The media wasnt on him 24/7. He also didnt puruse the media, they went after him. Gotti could of been killed internally just as virtually every other boss was. Why wasnt he killed? He was feared and he was strong.
Gotti could of beem killed inside a restaurant, night club, you name it. If they were able to kill castellano, they could have killed gotti.
Gotti went to plenty of secret meetings the government jnew nothing about, he could of easily of been killed at one of those meetings.

Last edited by Lenox; 05/16/23 08:17 PM.
Re: John Gottis height of power. Just how influential? [Re: Liggio] #1059460
05/16/23 08:16 PM
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Bobby Manna would have killed him he was the son of a mafioso going back to the early days of cosa nostra.


"The king is dead, long live the king!"
Re: John Gottis height of power. Just how influential? [Re: Hollander] #1059461
05/16/23 08:19 PM
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Manna could have but he was caught on a wire. There is also a possibility that Gotti got wind of it prior to the fbi telling him and gotti having Manna killed. We will never know.

Re: John Gottis height of power. Just how influential? [Re: Lenox] #1059462
05/16/23 08:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Lenox
Manna could have but he was caught on a wire. There is also a possibility that Gotti got wind of it prior to the fbi telling him and gotti having Manna killed. We will never know.


Yes if they were both on the streets it could go either way. But Genovese vs Gambino that would be something lol.

Last edited by Hollander; 05/16/23 08:25 PM.

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Re: John Gottis height of power. Just how influential? [Re: RushStreet] #1059479
05/16/23 09:41 PM
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Your notion that Gotti was somehow invincible or too feared to be killed is ridiculous. Killed at a meeting with bosses? Yeah right. First off the Bonanno and Colombo leaders were on his side so you could rule them out. 2nd of all no way would he have been killed at a meeting with bosses, all at the same place. Gotti was living on borrowed time. The feds got him before his enemies in the mob could, plain and simple.

Re: John Gottis height of power. Just how influential? [Re: RushStreet] #1059488
05/17/23 09:40 AM
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Castellano was killed, why not Gotti.
Angelo Bruno was killed, why not Gotti.
The 3 capo’s were killed, why not Gotti.
Carmine Galante was killed, why not Gotti.
Albert Anastasia was killed, why not Gotti.

Last edited by Lenox; 05/17/23 09:40 AM.
Re: John Gottis height of power. Just how influential? [Re: RushStreet] #1059493
05/17/23 11:18 AM
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The reason why the Media paid so much attention to John was because he was marketable and likeable by the general public. He had that charisma about him that is portrayed in movies such as Goodfellas, which is popular for a reason. Simply put, he made a Mob boss cool to follow. He had good looks, dressed really well and just had that IT factor. Guys like the Chin were ugly as fuck and not marketable. Lets be honest, most mob bosses do not look like Hollywood movie stars but John did. That is why he was who he was.

Re: John Gottis height of power. Just how influential? [Re: RushStreet] #1059498
05/17/23 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by RushStreet
The reason why the Media paid so much attention to John was because he was marketable and likeable by the general public. He had that charisma about him that is portrayed in movies such as Goodfellas, which is popular for a reason. Simply put, he made a Mob boss cool to follow. He had good looks, dressed really well and just had that IT factor. Guys like the Chin were ugly as fuck and not marketable. Lets be honest, most mob bosses do not look like Hollywood movie stars but John did. That is why he was who he was.
Well perhaps but HE played on that....you can look like a Sicilian Brad Pitt but if you want to stay out of the spotlight and avoid the media as much as possible YOU CAN.

I'm a little shocked at how many people are trying to blame the media and not the attention loving narcissist himself who clearly sought the spotlight and loved the coverage.

Re: John Gottis height of power. Just how influential? [Re: RushStreet] #1059507
05/17/23 12:25 PM
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Lenox, the reason they were killed and Gotti wasn't all comes down to circumstances and timing, not power and fear. Yes Gotti was feared and powerful to an extent but it has next to nothing to do with him not getting whacked.

Re: John Gottis height of power. Just how influential? [Re: RushStreet] #1059512
05/17/23 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by RushStreet
The reason why the Media paid so much attention to John was because he was marketable and likeable by the general public. He had that charisma about him that is portrayed in movies such as Goodfellas, which is popular for a reason. Simply put, he made a Mob boss cool to follow. He had good looks, dressed really well and just had that IT factor. Guys like the Chin were ugly as fuck and not marketable. Lets be honest, most mob bosses do not look like Hollywood movie stars but John did. That is why he was who he was.

Americans have been fascinated--obsessed--with outlaws going back to the 19th Century, and the media have played on that obsession by romanticizing outlaws as "Robin Hoods," "folk heroes," "on the side of the poor and downtrodden," etc. Their attention made heroes of Billy the Kid (a serial killer who murdered 20 men before his 21st birthday), Jesse James (a sadist, terrorist and torturer) and Butch Cassidy (a fraud).
Some gangsters are flattered by the attention paid to them by mass media--and have been undone by the publicity they got. John Dillinger and Al Capone flaunted their notoriety, and so, to an extent, did Gotti. They publicly thumbed their noses at The Law, which made The Law that much more determined to nail their asses. The successful mobsters always kept low profiles.



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E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: John Gottis height of power. Just how influential? [Re: RushStreet] #1059605
05/18/23 10:06 AM
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Again, I beg to differ. I do think fear was a factor. All the families saw how easily Gotti took out Castellano on a busy street during rush hour. They knew he had alot of willing, able, proficient killers to do it again if needed.

Last edited by Lenox; 05/18/23 10:06 AM.
Re: John Gottis height of power. Just how influential? [Re: Hollander] #1059607
05/18/23 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Hollander
Bobby Manna would have killed him he was the son of a mafioso going back to the early days of cosa nostra.

I grew up with the “son of a mafioso” and he was a ballet dancer. What does that have to do with it ?

Last edited by Lenox; 05/18/23 10:08 AM.
Re: John Gottis height of power. Just how influential? [Re: Lenox] #1059611
05/18/23 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Lenox
Originally Posted by Hollander
Bobby Manna would have killed him he was the son of a mafioso going back to the early days of cosa nostra.

I grew up with the “son of a mafioso” and he was a ballet dancer. What does that have to do with it ?
LOL. I grew up with a few myself.... It was a split mix though, some were wanna be gangsters some were straight up pu$$ies.

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