As my last few volumes have been more aimed at the Americans on this board, I felt the need to make a thread that can be aimed at nation to nation across the globe. Within this thread, everyone on here will be able to see why exactly the World hates America and why America is overwhelmingly conservative.

The downfall of the American government began in the year 1953. In the year 1953, the nation that had become independent, had made it through 2 World Wars, had made it though the Great Depression, would begin its' downfall. Let me break it down:

1953: US overthrows Prime Minister Mossadeq of Iran. The US installs Shah as dictator.

1954: U.S. overthrows democratically-elected President Arbenz of Guatemala. 200,000 civilians are killed.

1954-1963: US supports corrupt South Vietnamese President Diem in their effort to 'prevent the East from turning communist.'

October 1964: "We are not about to send American boys nine or ten thousand miles away from home to do what Asian boys ought to be doing for themselves."

1965: Over 500,000 US soldiers are now in southeast Asia.

1963-1975: American military kills 4 million people in Southeast Asia. Over 57,000 American soldiers are killed.

1973: U.S. stages a coup in Chile. Democratically-elected President Salvador Allende was assassinated. Dictator Augusto Pinochet is installed; 5,000 Chileans killed.

1977: US backs the military rulers of El Salvador. Over 70,000 Salvadorians and four American nuns are killed.

1980s: US trains Osama bin Laden and his fellow terrorists (US and conservatives claims they weren't terrorists...yet) to kill Soviets. CIA gives them $3 billion.

1981: Reagan administration trains and funds 'contras' in Nicaragua. Over 30,000 Nicaraguans die.

1982: US provides billions in aid to Saddam Hussein for weapons to kill Iranians.

1983: White House secretly gives Iran weapons to kill Iraqis.

1989: CIA agent Manuel Noriega (also serving as president of Panama) disobeys orders from Washington. US invades Panama and removes Noriega. Over 3,000 Panamanian civilian are killed.

1990: Iraq invades Kuwait with weapons from the US.

1991: U.S. enters Iraq. Bush Sr. reinstates dictator of Kuwait.

1991-present: UN estimates 500,000 Iraqi children die from bombings and sanctions from the US military.

1998: Clinton bombs "weapons factory" in Sudan. Factory turns out to be making aspirin.

2000-2001: US gives Taliban-ruled Afghanistan $245 million in "aid."

September 11, 2001: Osama bin Laden uses his expert CIA training to murder 3,000 people.

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The next question I hope to answer is: Why does America hate communism? Why is America afraid of a government that is different from a capitalism? Is it that America fears that communism will take over the world or is it that US government officials are jealous of the power they'll never have, even as President?

The US has feared many communist countries:
Vietnam
North Korea
Cuba
Former U.S.S.R.
China

Let's not forget our fear over fascist countries:
Nazi-Germany
Japan
Italy

The Cold War literally started as soon as World War II was over. We were fine with the Soviets putting people in concentration camps when they were our allie in World War II, but as soon as World War II ended, we turned our back on them and forgot that the Soviets had received the biggest blow in the war. More Soviet militray members and civilians died then that of any other country in World War II.

We've been to war with all of them atleast once, except for China, though we nearly went to war with Mao Zedong (communist leader of China in 1945).

The US fought just 3 years in North Korea (1950-1953) and over 54,000 Americans died. There US claimed that we withdrew from North Korea because it was out of the defense perimeter, yet Vietnam (SE of North Korea) wasn't out of the defense perimeter. Korea remained a divided country.

By 1953, the U.S.S.R., China, Vietnam, North Korea, and the U.S.S.R.'s satellite nations were all against us.

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The US and segregation:

In the 1950's and 1960's, the fear of the 'Black man' was growing in the US. Brown vs. the Board of Education (1954) stated that it was unconstitutional to separate schoolchildren by race. This overthrew Plessy vs. Ferguson (1896) that stated it was constitutional to keep school children "separate, but equal." It was far from equal. The southern members of Congress signed the "Southern Manifesto" that pledged to reverse the decision. The governor of Virginia threatened to close public schools and put Whites in private schools.

Dr. (there you go, DMC ) Martin Luther King Jr. (MLK) became known in 1955 after he got groups of Blacks together to boycott city buses after the city arrested and fined ($56) Rosa Parks for not sitting in the back up a public bus.

Perhaps one thing that old timers on here may be able to remember is what I am about to say: Birmingham, 1963. Dr. MLK led a demonstration in Birmingham, Alabama during which the Police Commissioner, Eugene 'Bull' Connor, uses firehoses, clubs, and snarlingdogs on demostrators, including women and children. National TV carried the violence across America. President John F. Kennedy (JFK) sent 3,000 troops to restore peace in the city.

At the University of Mississippi in 1962, the governor didn't want to allow James Meredith, a 29-year-old African American Air Force veteran in, but JFK sent federal marshalls and the National Guard. Just one year later, at the University of Alabama, the governor stood in a doorway to prevent desegregation and JFK sent the National Guard.

In 1963, the largest Civil Rights protest in American history took place in Washington DC. Over 200,000 black and white demonstrators were there in hopes of getting the Civil Rights Act passed. This is where Dr. MLK made his infamous 'I have a dream' speech. In 1964, less then a year after JFK's assassination, the Civil Rights Act was signed into law. This not only allowed Blacks to be united with Whites, but women of all races were no longer allowed to be discriminated based on sex.

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The problem with conservatives in this country is that they refuse to move on or be progressive. They refuse to accept anything that they don't believe in (i.e. communism and fascism). There is no problem with that, but the US doesn't try to help every country with a dictator in charge or a country that is experiencing genocide. I'm not just talking about conservative Republicans either. Conservative Democrats have the same problem.

We entered Iraq to get rid of Saddam Hussein (twice) because he committed genocide and was a dictator. The only problem is this: Sudan is experiencing way more genocide then that of which Saddam did to his own people. I am not saying that what Saddam did wasn't just as bad, but I'm saying that it's much worse in Sudan since thousands upon thousands more are being killed.

The future is what conservatives fear. They won't want to move on. They want to blame society's problems on kids, music, video games, movies, and TV. The majority of conservatives are part of the baby boomers, so why don't they ask themselves if they're the ones at fault? Why do they blame music and movies on the troubles of the youth when the youth (that is under 17) cannot read, listen, or watch magazines, music, or movies without the permission of their parents?

Well, if you read this far, please, no petty bullshit. Don't say, "He doesn't support our troops" or "he supports the terrorists" because quite frankly, I DO support our troops and I DON'T support the terrorists. Thank you for reading. -Pat

Hmm yes ok. Foriegn policy is a major reason why America is disliked in the world.

It's the stereotype of the typical American that people don't like. The loud, fat, tourist idiot chomping on his Big Mac. Who doesn't realise that there is a world outside of America. This is reflected in little things like the World Series in Baseball. Cynics will ask which other countries compete in this 'World' Series. Like I said, it is a stereotype but it's the view people have of Americans. We even joke at work poking fun at the American stereotype's lack of knowledge of Britain by putting on US accents saying "Scotland? Is that in London?"

Okay Pat, you say Conservatism is the downfall of the US? Why is it after all these years of "conservativsm" as you call it, has the US become the most powerful nation in the world? Because the people of the US want the country to be conservative. Except for a few exceptions, the US since the 1960s/70s has elected Republican presidents. IMO, the best president the US ever had, Ronald Reagan was a republican. So what Im trying to say is, you say how conservatism is so evil and everyone hates it? Well how come the majority of the people like the direction in which the US is going? Im a Canadian and I love the states for its economic policies, and they actually use the military power that they have. The thing about the military is, you can have it and waste money on funding something that you will never use, or you can actually use it to help the world. By helping out on a global scale (ex. invading Afghanistan, taking out the Taliban) then you are doing some good. Canada, through the election of several liberal PM's in the past years, has a neglected military. Its pathetic.


Strong Military = Power

Power = Respect

Therefore, Strong Military = Respect

The majority of the world RESPECTS the US. In fact there is only several countries in the middle east who hate the US. This is due to the fact that the US supports Israel.

Because other countries can't compare to us, though Japan, China, and several other countries can compare to our economic status.

They do? How do you know?

FDR was better.

I didn't call it evil and I didn't say everyone hates it. Didn't you even read the title of the thread? Why the World hates AMERICA and why America is conservative

Are you kidding me?

Yeh, I'm so happy we're stopping genocide in Sudan. :rolleyes:

Do you respect the former USSR? Hitler? They had power.

You're kidding, right?

....and countries in Europe, Asia, South America, and Africa (that hate America). -Pat

No, not a single other country in the world has anywhere near the economic clout the United States has. To compare:

GDP of the US: 10.9 trillion
GDP of Japan: 4.3 trillion
GDP of China: 1.4 trillion

Our GDP is double that of China and Japan combined. The United States accounts for nearly 1/5 of the world's total GDP.

This is the dumbest statement ever. SicilianMafia, you're in the wrong country man, you need to cross that big, beautiful border and get your ass over here. You'd be perfect with all the other war mongerer's here. Come on, I'll trade you buddy. I would'nt mind speaking French and playing hockey for a while.

Strong Military = Power

Power = Respect

Therefore, Strong Military = Respect

This is not your average Canadian statement. We don't need to have a strong military.(though because everyone does HATE us, we do. But we should not.)We need to focus on reducing the arms in the world. Stopping production of weapons of mass production. Power does equal respect, but respect is hate when the US turns it's back. We should not have to intimidate the entire world. We should gain respect on account of good things we do. People should not respect us out of fear that if they don't, we'll turn them into mincemeat. We are not fascist, though sometimes I wonder, so a big military should not be our primary concern. As Pat said, Hitler and Stalin had Power too, but let's not follow in those footsteps. A super strong military does not produce the kind of repect we should be aiming for. Being a positive element on the world and having strong foriegn relations with the good nature to consider everyone shares this would is though.

Your brash additude is the kind that creates dictators. We need to fight smart, not with extreme strength.

Doc

Haha, I don't think ANYBODY is playing hockey right now, so you're out of luck.

BTW, Baggins, nice call with actual stats.

Haha, I don't think ANYBODY is playing hockey right now, so you're out of luck.
[/b][/quote] Good point!

Doc

Pat doesn't like those :p

Okay, here is my response.

Yet we are still the strongest economic nation in the world, and unlike many other nations, have not had unruly social revolutions or civil wars (since the 18th and 19th centuries) to acheive this. Our nation was built upon firm principles which it still stand upon to this day.

Again, this shows your hindsight. The soviet union was taking over a sovereign nation. Yet you seem to think that we should've not helped (?) because they would grow into the Taliban.

So maybe we should've dropped the bomb on Hiroshima back in the 30's, since everyone knew they were going to be our enemy in World War II, right?


Because a true communist system has never worked. It leads to social unrest, and corruption within the government, with a small minority in power and the rest of the people in massive poverty. Communism has been successful in China because their policies are mixed and are moderate in comparison to traditional communism. Communism has a rich history of strict government control and restriction of civil liberties, internal wars and conflict, and political unrest.

Yeah, that's it. :rolleyes:

I never understand your points. Previous to this post, you seem to be so pro-Soviet WW II involvement, it's laughable, claiming we would've lost without them. However, now you chastise the US for allying with them against the Germans and Japanese? Which is it, Pat?

Open a bloody history book. Plessy v. Ferguson has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with schoolchildren. It involved a mulatto man who argued that being forced to sit in a colored railroad car violated the 13th and 14th amendments.

While it did set the precendent that seperate facilities for blacks and whites were constitutional as long as they were EQUAL, it didn't have anything to do with schoolchildren.

Brown v. Board of Education, Topeka, Kansas, did revese the "Seperate But Equal" clause, but again, the precedent case had absolutely nothing to do with schoolchildren.


You fail to mention Eisenhower's enforcement of the ruling, conveniently...

This comes from the section of the spectrum that has a hard time believing that their candidate lost the election.

This comes from the section of the spectrum that refuses to privitize social security, because the current system apparently works so well.

This comes from the section of the spectrum that had Senator Ted Kennedy and his leftist buddies attempt block school vouchers through filibuster in 2003.

This comes from the section of the spectrum that wants us to change our international interventionalist policy, yet wants us to send troops to Sudan.

This comes from the section of the spectrum that hails Bill Clinton as an economic magnifico, yet, as Mr. Baggins clearly pointed out through statics in the "Iran Suicide Bombers" thread, had large benefits from Reagonmics long-term effects and the dot com boom.

This comes from the section of the spectrum that says we can't kill convicted murderers, but we can kill innocent babies in the womb.

Maybe it's not just the section, maybe it's just Pat.


Maybe because we, unlike ideologic liberals (such as yourself), comprehend the history of successes (or rather, failures) of previously-implemented communist systems and the disorder it entails.


Where do you think the money and manpower come from? The magic rich people who you think hold all the monetary weath and snatch it away from the poor? Let's be honest - the United States simply doesn't have the ability to control all world affairs, and even if it did, it wouldn't be beneficial, as we'd be seen as big brother, which is our current sentiment now.

Also, as I've stressed before, you seem to believe in the blessed world community John Kerry had stressed during his campaign, and these so-called, "global tests." Yet why don't you bother to talk about the corrupt United Nations and how Europe has time and time again sat on it's hands while the US has to clean up it's messes?

I fear a future with our current society. The liberalism is rampant, and our society has degraded to a level I'm ashamed to even be a part of. It's disappointing to think that we can't say "God" in school, but we can legalize prostitution and have groups that want to legalize child porn in the name of free speech.

Also, it occurs to me, liberals seem to be the ones afraid of the future. After all, they're the ones who have been shitting bricks after their golden boy John Kerry lost to "The International Terrorist," George W. Bush.

I think you mean "don't," not, "won't." You see? I'll let you borrow that Hooked on Phonics set you told me to get, since you're the one who clearly needs it. :p

Kids? No. The degredation of society and loose moral values? Yes.

Music? I don't condemn all music, but I don't think messages of "nigga's" and "busting caps wit mah glock" exactly send positive thoughts to our youth.

Video Games? I don't condemn all video games, but Grand Theft Auto is a virtual crime simulator, and shouldn't be played by underaged kids.

Movies and TV? I dislike this because so much emphasis has been put on the trend of the almighty dollar, sex, and gender stereotypes. For instance - why is a man always portayed as the one who can't handle the house when the woman goes on vacation? He loses the kids, eats cold cereal, and looks like an idiot. Yet, we ignore the fact that he is likely to be the breadwinner of the family and such while the mom "goes on vacation" from her hectic life of watching the kids all day, except when they are in day-care, after school programs, and at a friends house, while I watch daytime soaps all day. [/cynical]

Where do you pull this stat from? I can take a guess, but it might be anatomically offensive.

There is clearly a youth movement in both parties, however, the components of both parties vary quite a bit within themselves.

I'd ask you the same question, but you seem to think you've got all the answers.


Again, as I aforementioned, society as a whole has loosened it's standards. Also, I was implying in my comment on the male representation in TV that parenting has become a neglected issue in America today, with many "parents" contributing little more than genetic material. Not all, but clearly, many, are content to not interact much with their kids, and then complain when Johnny gets brought home for dealing hashish at the high school.

Again, if you can't take the heat, get out of our proverbial political kitchen.

Okay.

He DOESN'T support our troops and he SUPPORTS the terrorists.

Regards,
That Double-J Person

Insults Double-J, insults.

I can't discuss this anymore with you because of your immaturity.

I'm taking my ball and going home!

Excellent post Double J

Yes, I agree. I'm glad my ball is safe and sound back at home, where those nasty leftists can't get ahold of it.

Someone who is consistent in their beliefs has no reason try other systems. If one does accept communism, fascism, and capitalism as an "equal-opportunity supporter," I'd say that person isn't sure what he believes and is pretty damn confused. There's nothing wrong with being unsure of what you believe in, for some time. Don't get me wrong. We all doubt everything at one point or another, and want to give everything a chance. But then we narrow it down eventually, as our character is formed. It's part of maturity and intelligence. So if you want people to be THAT open to everything, all their lives, you're asking a bit much.

Please. Do you know how many countries are under dictatorships, or are experiencing what could be classified as genocide? I don't have an exact number, but it's not just the Sudan. That just happens to be the one you hear the most about at the moment. And we do help many of them, by the way, by different means. But we can't take care of all of it at once, be a little realistic.

As for the rest of the post, a similar timeline could be constructed outlining the shortcomings of liberal politics in the United States. However, it's so not worth it, because it's not about that at all; besides, it's not, as you think, going in one certain direction (downhill and veering to the right, according to you). Look at history (no no no, I mean look at it objectively). Sometimes we have a more liberal government, and sometimes it's more conservative. And guess what, it's never that particular way as an injustice against the wishes of the majority of Americans. It always just so happens to be what the majority decides on. Funny how that works, huh? God bless America.

Pssht, I'm sure you'll be chastised for not making a page-long list, and accused of a.) insulting someone, b.) not supporting your argument with fact, and/or c.) not replying to the entire post. Obviously, you cannot handle this debate, and you should back down now.

Apparently so. Sorry.

I had arguments in my head for each and every sentence of the original post (starting with the title of the thread!!), but it would be redundant to address them all, and furthermore, I'm trying my best not to get too involved in these political discussions, quite frankly. Besides, it would take a great deal of double-checking my facts to construct a good, 100% accurate, detailed comeback, and since *yawn* that's what I do for homework, it's gotten old fast. :rolleyes:

However, I would like to thank you, DJ, for your post replying to the entire post. Not bad.

Hey! The kid has it ALL FIGURED OUT! FANTASTIC job here Pat!


Don Cardi

I still think it's hilarious that not once in the original post did he mention the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Considering that it is one of, if not THE, major reason why muslims hate us in the middle eastern world, I'm surprised not even a mention was made.

Goes to show you how much the left side pays attention to fact, or reality. Take your pick. Maybe both. :p

They do? How
do you know?

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Take a look at the voting results in the past and in the latest election. And dont even fuckign say Bush rigged it cause he won it fair and square

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Are you kidding me?

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Again, refer to the latest election results

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Yeh, I'm so happy we're stopping genocide in Sudan. :rolleyes:

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What shape would the world be in if it wasnt for the United States helping out countries of the world whether it be peacekeeping or flushing out Terror Cells

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Do you respect the former USSR? Hitler? They had power.

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At the time of World War 2, I dont think there wasnt a country in the world that didnt FEAR either the USSR or the Nazi's. The fear was derived from respect....respect for their military might.

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You're kidding, right?

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No actually Im not. Maybe if you actually did some travelling instead of sitting here polluting the boards with ur democratic propoganda then maybe you would realize what im saying is right

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[/quote]

You know I dont see the need for insults, especially discriminatory ones. Here I was complimenting your country, while you spit on mine? Its people like you who give the states a bad name.

lol, I just realized this...

DF- "mongerers" ?

Soitenly!

-DJ