I was wondering; Who was the better boss between Joe Bonanno and Joe Profaci? (Both we’re bosses during the same time) (1931-1960’s)

Both ruled their family for over 30 years; (It’s actually impressive when you think about it)

Both has internal violence and opposing factions in their borgata during their tenure.

Both were disliked by their own men.

But… my question is; Who was the better boss and more imposing?? Made more money??

Who had a better sway on the commission??

Would love some opinions. Never seen this question asked on the board.

Profaci was a greedy motherfucker,his greedy led to Gallo rebellion and 2 internal war while Bonanno expanded the family rackets especially the drug traffick and send Galante to Canada for put the flag on Montreal,he was hated because tried to impose his son as boss but except this and the attempt to kill Gambino and Lucchese under hiscreign the bonannos become internazional and leader in heroin traffick.

Looking at their reigns in totality (30yrs respectively),
Bonanno was far more respected both within his Family and throughout the country. What is not fully understood is that, The Profaci/Colombos were dysfunctional long before the Gallos because of Profaci's greed and he ordered more hits than given credit for. They were probably the most "thrown together" bunch when the Commission organized in 1931. Profaci came from a powerful clan in Villabate (similar to Bonanno) but he was known to be involved in the street fighting of the Castellamarese War. He was kinda "gifted" his organization because of his connections.

Bonanno was more respected (from a street perspective) because of his involvement in the War. Furthermore, you have to look at the 20 or so guys who retired to Arizona with Joe. That says to me, no matter what the narrative is, the man was respected by people.

As far a wealth, Profaci was richer from a legitimate standpoint. But I believe if you combined legitimate and illegal it might sway to Bonanno's favor.

@Dob_Peppino;

How were the Profaci’s dysfunctional long before the Gallo’s??

We’re there another opposing faction in the family that opposed Profaci during his early reign 1930’s-1940’s?? Things started to change in the mid 50’s; but you’re implying there were guys revolting in the 1930’s and 1940’s.

We’re there any other guys in the family that could have stood up to Profaci??

I agree with your assessment about Bonanno; he just made two mistakes; Not installing a old timer in the administration (He had his son as Consigliere? There were guys in the family for over 30 years and they weren’t chosen) and the mishandling of the Lucchese/Gambino situation.

The Profaci's own Colavita olive oil and are the only organized crime family to ever become completely legitimate, they committed crime in order to become respected, the definition of success in the Cosa Nostra.

Zavattoni
Not saying there was revolts. But The Profacis were always unstable in comparison to the other Families. There is a underbelly of the Profaci Family was always gangster. Profaci ordered a few more hits than he is given credit for. Bonanno also had more opposition during his tenure than is generally know but all in all, Bonanno was more respected in America and Sicily.

Agreed

@ Dob_Peppino;

Profaci had a tiny family compared the rest but for him to come out of nowhere and was made a equal to the other bosses on the commission makes me think (Profaci was the real deal) He knew how to make money…

He also had some stone cold killers in his family..,

Johnny Oddo; Sally Mussachio; Greg Scarpa Sr; Carmine Persico; and his brother Alphonse Persico; Sonny Franzese; Mimi Scialo; Jiggs Forlano; The Gallo brothers; Charles Panarella and Tommy Spero; All those guys were violent; heavy hitters and serious.

There’s some people that underestimate Profaci but I do agree that Bonanno was the better boss.

Profaci definitely knew how to make money. And I don't take the fact that he was at the Cleveland meeting in 1928 lightly. He was a player on the big stage and pound for Pound, his Family had as many dangerous guys as any of the Families during his time.

They both utilized their blood family. Sammy the Bull says " these guys were making their sons, nephews and they didn't even belong". I happen to disagree because before 1968, most of the Families had blood ties and since that time, LCN has suffered on a whole. Of Course, other factors precipitated this but I think the loss of blood ties is a not as appreciated as it should be.

Bonanno made some key mistakes but as far as I'm concerned (even with that being said) he was second most important and powerful boss of the original Commission. Not necessarily in 1931 but from a historical perspective. Second only to Luciano. More power within his Family than Mangano. More power across the country than Profaci. Wealthier than Gagliano. More powerful in Canada and Sicily than Magaddino. Longer reign and less publicity (even upto today) than Capone.

Gambino and the real mastermind Lucchese had to gang up on him when he was in a weak spot.

No way to know if he was wealthier than Gagliano, that dude was a ghost.

It's debatable the pecking order of wealth and I'm willing to concede that Gagliano may have been wealthier in the 30's because he was early in the construction business and I believe he was into black market rations during WW2 but by the time of his death, Bonanno was easily pulling ahead going into the mid 50s. Also, Gagliano and Lucchese (to my understanding) didn't take huge tribute from the Family. Thats part of what maintained their stability. The Bonannos were all over the country at one time, Bonanno eat very well. And also like Gagliano, very quietly I might add. The quiet ones were involved in the most unlikely rackets and businesses.

Yers, Profaci was greedy. And, the Gallo brothers humiliated him by kidnapping his hierarchy and making him go to the Commission to free them. But, Bonanno wrecked his family with that stupid, born-to-fail plot with Magliocco to whack Gambino and Lucchese; and by staging his "kidnapping" and going on the lam for 19 months, splitting his family in a vicious internal war.

If you read wiretap transcripts of Stefano Magaddino, Sam Decavalcante and Raymond Patriarca, you can read it to ways....Either Joe Bonanno was the worst guy of all time or all these guys (the bosses) are trying very hard to CONVINCE there soldiers that Bonanno was a terrible guy. You'll also find made guys replying with great skepticism about there accusations. They give logical counter-arguments to what was going on.
End of the day, Lucchese, Gambino and Magaddino allied themselves to take the power position in the Commission. Magaddino lost control of his own Family and Lucchese died. Gambino became to defacto Capo Di Tutti Capi. A position Bonanno was trying to maneuver into. If that heroin case with Galante never happened, he would've been primed for it.

@Turnbull;

You’re right; Profaci and Bonanno definitely made some huge mistakes… that costed them…

Do you think Joe Profaci would have been “outed” or forced to resign as boss like Magliocco if he was scheming to have Lucchese and Gambino murdered??

I don’t believe he would have been forced to resign… That’s a real good question that I would like to hear from you or @Dob_Peppino on your opinions about that. Profaci would have fought back…and he had a load of killers in that family.

Also during this period; Who were the Genovese”a supporting???????

Lucchese/Gambino or Profaci/Bonanno???

You never hear a peep about who they were supporting… (neutral I guess??)

I don't know about Profaci being so greedy, I think that mostly comes from the Gallo brothers, who ere low lives. They got made and seemed to have been upset that the boss as not kicking down to them instead of the other way around. Profaci and Bonanno each made money in outside businesses. I think that they (Especially Bonanno) could not relate to their soldiers and captains as the years passed. They were likely good bosses in the 1930's who's hold on their families faded as time rolled by. If Profaci did not have the Gallos in his family, he may have wound up being remembered as one of the great bosses.

Bonanno was the the better boss of the two. Both Bonanno and Profaci were greedy, those of their inner circle were rewarded better than other crew and spoke more fondly of their bosses compared to other crews in the families.
Profaci was the most violent of the two bosses. Profaci had a lot of sway on the Commission, until the Newark family fiasco, then Joe Bonanno had alot more prestige on the Commission, by 1959 their prestige on the Commission wand do to alliances taking place, even before Appalachian, Bonanno was losing power with other bosses going behind his back in some situations, even Profaci was having problems. Bonanno also had more respect throughout the US, Sicily, Canada, and Europe. As for who made the most money, that is hard to know for sure, but if we just go by legitimate income it would be Bonanno this includes businesses that they own or were partnered in, not together but with other members or people. You can point to Profaci owning the Colavita Oil Company which made a lot of money, but Bonannos portfolio was larger than Profaci.
Gambino and Lucchese did suggested to Profaci that he should step down which infuriated Profaci, which also made Bonanno, Joe Zerilli, Joe Cerrito and another boss mad.
On the Bonanno internal fighting, it is interesting cause alot of families were divided on Joe Bonanno. There are wiretaps, as well as informants who told their views thinking they were bug free or the guys they were talking to could be trusted. Boston and New Jersey are good examples of following Gambino, Lucchese, and Magaddino lead. The Genovese and Wisconsin families are a lot more interesting in this as they were divided, also the fact the Wisconsin family off Chicago messenger before he could finish what he was saying spoke volumes on that family. Sign of disrespect but also that they would hold their own council on the matter. Bonanno was able to retire and still have contacts with some of the other families around the country, but I have not seen anything to say he was active in those families activities after his retirement.

I think any conversation about who was the wealthier boss, or who was the stronger boss, is larger a pissing contest without merit because both Bonanno and Profaci were extremely powerful bosses in their own right. You gotta remember that both of them were "original" bosses set in place by 1931-32 and they were both top members of the "Commission."

Each of them controlled their own borgata for upwards of thirty years. NO OTHER NYC FAMILY BOSS CAN SAY THAT! None! Not Genovese, Gambino, or Lucchese. A thirty year run for Profaci that only ended because he succumbed to cancer. Otherwise he'd have still remained as boss for the duration of his lifetime. Thats power! At their traditional peak the Profaci Family was allowed about 150 soldiers by Commission dictates, while Bonanno's limit reportedly topped over 200-250 men. Bonanno fucked up, but he too was a much revered boss for over three decades who ran a crew even larger than Profaci.

Neither of them is to be sold short. Some think Profaci was a bad boss and was greedy. Among certain troops he was. But among others he was beloved. Like all bosses. But his besmirched "reputation" by the media is largely a fiction because of the belly-aching of the Gallo brothers who were still wet behind the ears (having only been "made" less than five years before they revolted). They were jerkoffs who thought they were entitled to more than they were entitled to. Upstarts who created a lot of havoc that disrupted Cosa Nostra....But it doesn't make them right!

Profaci; He had extremely close ties to the Zerilli Family of Detroit (another powerhouse); very close ties to both the Joe Cerrito Family of California and to Ray Patriarca Family of NE (he represented both those families on the Commission); ran multimillions-dollar food and olive oil importing firms that became national in scope; dress factories, extensive real estate portfolio; interests in many other businesses too numerous to list here; had close ties back to Villabate, Sicily where family members were drawn from, etc. Boss from early 1930s-early 1960s. Etc., etc.

Bonanno: Very Close ties to ALL Castelammarese based families throughout the U.S. and Trapani; Sicily. Represented several families on the Commission; ran multimillion-dollar cheese manufacturing and distrubion companies in the U.S. and Canada; dress factories, extensive real estate portfolio interests, held interests in many other businesses; had close ties back to Castellammare del Golfo; Boss from early-1930s-mid 1960s. He was allowed to retire (a rarity in that life). Etc., etc.

Believe me when I say that it's like trying to split hairs to debate who was better (or stronger).

Lastly, remember too that Profaci and Bonanno were very close to one another and comprised a formidable "team" so to speak. NOBODY was challenging them when they were together. It was only after Profaci's death that other Commission member looked to finally usurp Bonanno's power...thats saying something no?

@Giacomo_Vacari

Can you elaborate on the Newark family fiasco… never heard anything about that… What happened for Profaci to lose so much respect in his own family in relation to that?!

@NYMafia

I agree; Profaci and Bonanno together were a force to be reckoned with… Lucchese/Gambino didn’t have the firepower do anything to them….. Only when Profaci died was when they could overpower Bonanno.. Magliocco was weak and had a divided family…

Also; In regards to the Genovese’s… You said some of them supported Profaci/Bonanno and some of them supported Lucchese/Gambino.

Can you name some of the guys who supported either one; Who did Thomas Eboli support; or guys like Gerry Catena? Vito Genovese. Etc….

Magliocco was "outed" for assuming power after Profaci's death and claiming he was elected (in the original style of LCN) by his Caporegime. When it came out that the Family was still in revolt (meaning he couldn't possibly be elected, with a divided Family fighting in the streets), he was forced to step down. Joe Colombo come into play as being the chosen heir due to his association with Carlo Gambino. (Colombo's biographer stated that Gambino was a godfather-like mentor of Joe growing up. He knew him since he was a kid.) Joe Colombo was very respected within that Family during that time for being a hit guy and how he conducted himself during the Caporegime Gallo Kidnappings.

The Gambino/Lucchese hit conspiracy is a myth in my opinion.

Regarding the Genoveses, it seems they were trying to stay neutral for the most part. Jerry Catena seemed content letting Gambino and Lucchese handle it. He appeared to be allied with there side quietly. Mike Miranda and Mike Genovese seemed completely neutral of the outcome but genuinely interested in the truth. Tommy Eboli was all for it in the beginning years but later wiretaps show, when he started to have issues with Gambino, he began speaking as if Bonanno got railroaded wrongly.
Ultimately, I don't feel like they were involved from a strategic standpoint (although turning a blind eye is blind consent) they definitely saw the writing on the wall and a benefit for themselves. The were in line with Gambino and Lucchese.

If Profaci lived longer, it would have been all out war. Because Profaci was far more influential than Magliocco. Joe Malyak was very rich and a street guy in the 20's but much like Gaspare DiGregorio in the Bonannos, they were a far step down from Profaci and Bonanno. Influence wise. Profaci and Bonanno together Forces the other Families to choose rather than play the fence. For instance, Detroit has to go along with Profaci for blood sake. It put Bonanno in a stronger position with his Family because he has back up in New York. They both can get reinforcement from Sicily. It becomes a different ballgame

You're 1000% percent correct IMO Don Pep. Not 100% correct, but 1000% percent correct in your assessment. Bravo my friend!

Zavattoni, The Newark fiasco I am talking about is the Newark family. Joe Profaci only talked with Gaspare D'Amico once, and sent another guy to talk to him about how the Calabrians were disgruntled with D'Amico only making those who were Sicilian or had Sicilian parents, also about the Olive oil trucks that Salvatore Profaci ran. Joe Profaci thought that was enough time and when D'Amico did not comply Profaci ordered D'Amico, his right hand man, and a couple of others to be killed. The Commission wanted a peaceful resolution or wait until the 1941 meeting, but Profaci went on his own and used force fast. This cost him some respect from Costello, and Mangano in New York, and the Chicago outfit. It was decided by the Commission to disband the Newark crime family and take its membership into the other families, and Joe Profaci remained a boss, but by 1941 he was no longer chairman of the Commission. His actions did gain the respect of Vito Genovese and Albert Anastasia. From what is know, it looks like he was using Salvatore Lombardino and the Misuraca brothers who at the time were with the D'Amico family, also Salvatore Lombardino and Joe Profaci went way back to when Joe Profaci returned to New York from living in Chicago, no doubt Tony Lombardo sent messages to other members in the New York area about Profaci and respect was shown to Profaci. In all retrospect, Joe Profaci had just had a revolt before this with the Scaduto brothers, so it looks like Profaci was still in a War state of mind instead of a diplomatic state of mind.

@Dob_Peppino;

How did Magliocco “assume” power… He was Profaci’s underboss for over 30 years; Wouldn’t he have been the logical successor regardless if the captains voted him??? He must have been hated internally in the family… There’s not much said about Magliocco..

I don’t understand how Joe Colombo became “boss” Guy was a “rat” in my opinion. Should have been whacked… by Profaci/Magliocco loyalists.. A “captain” going to the commission to rat his boss out is a joke when you think about it… Colombo must have really hated Magliocco. Who else could have succeeded Magliocco at that time?? Weren’t there respected old timers?? Who got overstepped by Joe Colombo?? Who could have stepped in and took the family if they weren’t so divided??

@Giacomo_Vacari

Seems like Profaci was more violent of all the bosses in his “era”.. The more I read all you knowledgeable posters responses and opinions. It’s appearent that Profaci was no joke..

@Giacomo_Vacari

Thanks for letting me know about the Newark incident; First time hearing it.

Magliocco was the underboss and obvious forerunner. He also was the person who was dealing directly with the Commission. He claimed that the capos voted and excepted him a boss. When it came out that he lied, according to Stefano Magaddino's wiretaps, he personally told Magliocco that he was not gonna be recognized by the Commission until a real election was held. (Pretty much, The Commission was making news rules as Gambino and Lucchese saw fit. Magaddino was a used because of his Senoirity). Colombo was probably approved by the Commission first and the decision respected by the Family second because he was a respected guy in that borgata. At that time, it seems the younger generation, Colombo, Gallo, Franzese, Persico etc had more sway and the old timers were a step down from Profaci. Colombo was a decent choice in theory of keeping the peace. Plus it certainly worked to the best interest of the Commission.

And yes, Profaci definitely was more violent than is generally known. But for that matter, so was Joe Bonanno. There was a couple Maranzano era guys in the mid 30s who wanted to take over and they got clipped. In the mid 40s there was a young crew of hotheads,, whose leader name Nicola Ciccone had aspirations and a few of them got clipped. But one of the most brazen hits was the Cypress Gardens hit. The guy brought his cousin from Sicily to machine-gun (very Castellamare War style) three guys at dinner. Scary!!!

Castellammare del Golfo and Villabate still notorious strongholds of cosa nostra.

Basically every Sicilian province is a stronghold of Cosa Nostra, or Stidda or some other Mafia group.

@Dob-Peppino and NYMafia

Who were the most powerful captains under the reign of Joe Profaci/Magliocco??

Frank Abbatemarco comes to mind because he had the Gallo’s and other guys…. He was whacked for not paying tribute and talking a lot of ****

Sally The Sheik Mussachio and Buster Aloi were prominent capos during Profaci's reign. Mussachio (I believe had gambling or shylock debt.) So his reputation diminished

True but they do not have all ties to the USA like Villabate and CDG.

There were a few others, but four specific capos immediately come to mind; Cassandros (Tony the Chief) Bonasera and John (Johnny Bath Beach) Oddo, and the aforementioned Salvatore (Sally the Sheik) Mussachio and Sebastiano (Buster) Aloi. Another little known, yet extremely powerful member who served as both the top capo and eventually as the consigliere, was Joe Profaci's brother, Salvatore Profaci Sr.

With the exception of Sal Profaci the other four mafiosi I mention were all notorious Brooklyn hoodlums. But two additional important Profaci capos that come to mind (who were virtual unknowns) are Leonardo (Big Leo) Carlino and James (Jimmy Brown) Clemenza Sr.

I'm not gonna pretend I knew Bonanno or his goofy son, but outside of Vito Genovese, he was probably the most hated boss in the country...

This guy challenged everybody, when the mob had real armies behind them...

And they still only exiled him...Nobody ever made a move against him...

That's a real gangster who was respected and feared