Is there a single thing that generated more distrust of American government and intelligence regarding organized crime?

The only thing I can think of is Hoovers repeated denials of a Mafia.

Two shining examples of the cluelessness or involvement of American intelligence agencies and LCN.

The files ordered released a couple of years ago showed there was no mob involvement in the JFK assassination. I don't see why they hide those and other files for so long a time. I don't think Hoover denied there was a mob, or as t was called more often a Syndicate. He just had priority of going after outside threats such as communism.

The Warren Commission findings have been disputed,but mainly by conspiracy theorists who rely on speculation and hearsay.
In the nearly 60 yrs since the event,no hard evidence has surfaced which would link the Mob,in any way to the assassination.

Three other U.S. government investigations have agreed with the Warren Commission's conclusion.the panel headed by Ramsey Clark, the 1975 Rockefeller Commission, and the 1978-79 House Select Committee on Assassinations (HSCA), which reexamined the evidence with the help of the largest forensics panel. The HSCA involved Congressional hearings and ultimately concluded that Oswald assassinated Kennedy.. The HSCA concluded that Oswald fired shots number one, two, and four, and that an unknown assassin fired shot number three (but missed) from near the corner of a picket fence..

However, this conclusion has also been criticized, especially for its reliance upon disputed acoustic evidence. The HSCA Final Report in 1979 did agree with the Warren Report's conclusion in 1964 that two bullets caused all of President Kennedy's and Governor Connally's injuries, and that both bullets were fired by Oswald.

In the above listed investigations,a total of 19 Medical Examiners/Coroners testified. All agreed with the conclusion that all of the shots that struck JFK hit him in the back of the head. This even includes noted skeptic and Media whore Dr. Cyril Wecht, the unofficial leader of the tinfoil hat conspiracy crowd.

There is no doubt in my mind that Carlos Marcello was behind this. The people who believe the Warren commission are nuts

so very true, he also admitted it.

When did he admit to it? I don't believe he did it, maybe he tried to brag or joke that he did.

He did it goddamn it!!! This discussion is over

You're a riot Ralphie.

100%




His lawyer has confirmed this repeatedly as well.


Jack Ruby has FBI documents linking him to Nappi and the rest of the Chicago Outfit going back to the 40s and is linked with Red Dorfman whose son Alan was the bagman for the Teamsters insurance fund.


Every single person involved or suspected has a direct link to organized crime, specifically Chicago/NO/FL mafia.

Oh well if his lawyer said he did it. I'm pretty sure OJ's lawyer's said OJ didn't do it if we are going to start believing lawyers. The book to read is Mafia Kingfish, I'm not saying Marcello was behind the killing but the book makes a good argument. Based on my research, I believe it was the triple combo, FBI, CIA and LCN all together. Take too long to explain but that's what I think I also think we went to the moon many times.

Lee Harvey Oswald had no mob ties, he killed Kennedy. That should be the end of it, they investigated it to death, and released previously suppressed files a couple of years ago, showing no mob involvement in the assassination. Conspiracy theorists just can't let go.

About Marcello's so-called "admission":

A convicted bank robber by the name of Van Laningham was sentenced to the same prison that Marcello was serving time in.

He was sitting in the prison courtyard with Marcello on December 15, 1985 when Marcello went off about Kennedy.

An FBI Confidential Source Report released by the National Archives said Marcello told Van Laningham the following: “Yeah, I had the son of a bitch killed. I'm glad I did it. I'm sorry I couldn't have done it myself.”

The FBI did not interview Marcello after the statement, and there was some question of his mental capacity at the time.

So what you have is a possibly demented old man,a has been Mob Boss, telling a stranger about his possible involvement in the crime of the century'

This was 22 years after the event. IMHO Carlos secretly enjoyed the (undeserved) reputation he got as the JFK "mastermind"' and was so desperate to feed his ego,that he "confided" in a small-time punk,who as it turns out,was the only one who really gave a sh*t.

Even the FBI,who flipped Van Laningham as a snitch,realized that Marcello was nuts,and didn't even bother to talk to "the criminal genius" who orchestrated this huge convoluted conspiracy and subsequent cover - up.

Given the passage of almost 60 years; the deaths of so many people who were in the know, or who might have been in the know; and the non-discovery, loss or possible destruction of so much evidence, the only certainty is that the case will never be closed.

I agree with you, but for different reasons. IMHO, JFK's murder was such a huge cultural watershed moment in US history,that it is basically beyond closing,at least in the conventional sense.
This case is unique in that there is no absolute, objective standard of proof for any evidence whatsoever. There will never be a generally accepted consensus in support of any detail of the assassination.
I think this is partly because of the sheer volume of information,and partly because of human nature. I think it's a common tendency to accept evidence that bolsters ones position,and to reject evidence that does not.

Assume for purposes of discussion that Oswald lived and was tried for the murder,and all evidence,witnesses,etc available at that time were produced.
Regardless of the jury verdict,there would still be a significant segment of the public that would disagree with it,and would blame a cover-up or conspiracy to support their opinion.

True

Even more true. I've given a talk, dozens of times to hundreds of people, on the assassination that covers the three most common conspiracy theories, plus the Warren Commission, Not one person changed their preconceived opinion about what "really" happened.

I think you are both right that opinions don't really change, but I have to tell you...mine did.

I was a hardcore believer in a JFK conspiracy for 20 years or so and as the devil's advocate I could still give you my whole laundry list of reasons why one should believe in the potential for conspiracy.

But I *did* change my opinion. For me, my conversion came about owing to three things:

1. An open mind/willingness to re-examine my beliefs/the humility to be "wrong"
2. Visiting Dealey Plaza in person
3. Reading Vincent Bugliosi's "Reclaiming History" in its entirety...twice. (It is no small task).

Unfortunately, the JFK conspiracy theory is predicated on a number of "facts" which are not true, but which have been asserted so many times as to be widely believed. For example, the "three shots in six seconds" - which is based on a deliberate miscalculation. (I.e. it is measured like this: SHOT #1....(time to cycle the bolt and aim)....SHOT #2....(time to cycle the bolt and aim)....SHOT #3)

In fact it should be measured like this: ....(time to cycle the bolt and aim)....SHOT #1....(time to cycle the bolt and aim)....SHOT #2....(time to cycle the bolt and aim)....SHOT #3 - so the actual total time elapsed is in fact well above six seconds. I've been shooting bolt action rifles since I was 12 years old and having been to Dealey plaza I know that if you tell me you can't make those shots at those distances in 10 seconds or so (by the way, contrary to the movie it HAS been done in 6 seconds) then what you're telling me is that you're not a very good shot. Oswald, while alleged to have been a crappy shot in the movie was in fact ranked as a Sharpshooter in 1956 with a score of 212. Conspiracy theorists point to a second test he did a few years later where he performed poorly, without making any mention of the 1956 test.

They also mischaracterize the Carcano Rifle as a "cheap rifle". There are two ways to look at something being "cheap" - there is cheap as in poor quality and cheap as in inexpensive. As military surplus, the Carcano rifle was inexpensive - but that is not to say that it was a poor quality rifle. Another deliberate mischaracterization used in order to bolster the claims of those championing conspiracy.

I could go on and on, but I'll leave it there and just let pro-conspiracy folks tell me what an idiot they think I am.

"Reclaiming History" is the definitive work on the JFK assassination. It should be required reading for people on both sides of the conspiracy debate.

But, just to speak to my earlier point,I loaned it to a pro - conspiracy friend of mine, and after several weeks he returned it. When I asked what he thought,his reply was "Well it was written by a prosecutor,so of course he's going to be biased toward a lone gunman conclusion".

It never ends.

When I was younger I used to buy into the conspiracy argument. I truly believed there was no way that Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone. Until I read Reclaiming History. I've probably recommended it to everybody I know who believes there was a conspiracy. My cousin was one of 'em. He was convinced it had something to do with LBJ and the CIA, but because he read Bugliosi's book he now believes in the lone gunman theory. You can sway people if they are willing to approach the issue critically. Check your ego at the door and actually study the facts. The Warren Commission got it right.

You should ask your friend, while acknowledging that yes, it was written by the prosecutor; who's material should we consider as the defence? And is there any defence which rebuts the arguments Bugliosi makes?

The other thing I have realized with age was just how hard it would be to keep a lid on a conspiracy like this one. When you compare this alleged conspiracy to a known conspiracy such as Watergate - consider that if the President of the United States could not successfully facilitate the burglary of a hotel room just blocks away from the White House with a small team of CIA-trained operatives, how on God's green earth would they be able to facilitate a massively-scaled conspiracy like the assassination of Kennedy which would have to involve dozens if not hundreds of people? It seems highly unlikely.

You should ask your friend, while acknowledging that yes, it was written by the prosecutor; who's material should we consider as the defence? And is there any defence which rebuts the arguments Bugliosi makes?

The other thing I have realized with age was just how hard it would be to keep a lid on a conspiracy like this one. When you compare this alleged conspiracy to a known conspiracy such as Watergate - consider that if the President of the United States could not successfully facilitate the burglary of a hotel room just blocks away from the White House with a small team of CIA-trained operatives, how on God's green earth would they be able to facilitate a massively-scaled conspiracy like the assassination of Kennedy which would have to involve dozens if not hundreds of people? It seems highly unlikely.


[/quote

Unfortunately,my friend,like a lot of people, has his mind made up. There was a conspiracy,end of story,and nothing will ever change his mind.
But that's OK,we've been friends since Grade School,and part of the fun is that we pretty much disagree on everything.

As far as a cover-up,I've always thought it unusual that in all of the wiretaps,interrogations,testimony,and even snitch input since 1963,not one credible mention of a Mob involvement has come to light.
Sure,we have a lot of "I was at this meeting with so-and-so and he said something to somebody else,who told another guy that JFK was a pain in the ass"
Not one snitch willing to give up a solid tip to reduce his possible charges.
We're talking possibly tens of thousands of hours of tapes,testimony,and reports,by virtually every level of Fed,State,and Local Law enforcement encompassing a multitude of jurisdictions,and involving OC and non OC people.
I find it hard to believe that this "conspiracy" was that foolproof and diabolical.

100% False and Mis information

The 1979 HSCA said there were 4 shots , that it was a probable conspiracy and the US DOJ should investigate but nothing happened.

The AARB findins were even more incredible

JFL Through the Lookong Glass on Showtime is a really good show that details
The AARB info

What is the AARB?

The HSCA based their conclusion on a Dictabelt recording from a Dallas motorcycle officers radio channel. The claim that there is a sound of a 4th gunshot on the tape has been repeatedly and conclusively discredited by numerous forensic audio examiners. Using an amateur film shot of the motorcade, the HSCA concluded that the recording originated from the motorcycle of police officer H. B. McLain, who later testified before the committee that his microphone was usually stuck in the open position. However, McLain did not hear the actual recording until after his testimony, and upon hearing it, he adamantly denied that the recording came from his motorcycle. He said that the other sounds on the recording did not match any of his movements. Sirens are not heard on the recording until over two minutes after what is supposed to be the sound of the shooting; even though, McLain accompanied the motorcade to Parkland Hospital immediately after the shooting, with sirens blaring the whole time. When the sirens are heard on the Dictabelt recording, they rise and recede in pitch (i.e., the Doppler effect) and volume, as if they are passing by. McLain also said that the engine sound was clearly from a three-wheeled motorcycle, not the two-wheeler that he drove. "There's no comparison to the two sounds," he said.

The only evidence that HSCA had for a second shooter was the Dictabelt sound recording. Four of the twelve HSCA members dissented to the HSCA's conclusion of conspiracy based on the acoustic findings, and a fifth thought a further study of the acoustic evidence was "necessary". Dissenting members of the committee included Congressmen Samuel L. Devine, Robert W. Edgar, and Harold S. Sawyer. Responding to a question asking how he would handle the Committee's report if he were at the Justice Department, Sawyer replied: "I'd file it in a circular file."

The FBI's Technical Services Division studied the acoustical data and issued a report on December 1, 1980 (dated November 19, 1980). The FBI report concluded that the HSCA failed to prove that there were gunshots on the recording and also failed to prove that the recording was made in Dealey Plaza. In fact, using the techniques of the previous investigators, the FBI matched a gunshot recorded in Greensboro, NC in 1979 with the sound that was supposedly a shot from the grassy knoll – purportedly suggesting that the initial investigation's methods were invalid.

The United States Department of Justice reviewed the HSCA report and the National Academy of Science's study of the sound evidence. It reported to the Judiciary Committee on March 28, 1988, and rebuked the HSCA's conclusion of a probable conspiracy.

In 2003, an independent researcher named Michael O'Dell reported that both the National Academy and Dr. Thomas had used incorrect timelines because they assumed the Dictabelt ran continuously. When corrected, these showed the impulses happened too late to be the real shots even with Thomas's alternative synchronization. In addition, he pointed out that the claim of a 95% or higher probability of a shot from the grassy knoll was logically incorrect. It was a 5% chance of finding a match in random noise and did not consider other possible causes.

A November 2003 analysis paid for by the cable television channel Court TV concluded that the putative gunshot impulses did not match test gunshot recordings fired in Dealey Plaza any better than random noise. In December 2003, Thomas responded by pointing out what he claimed were errors in the November 2003 Court TV analysis. However, in 2005, five acoustic experts (Linsker, Garwin, Chernoff, Horowitz, and Ramsey) reinvestigated the acoustic recordings and noted several errors made by Thomas.

In 2013, Professor Larry J. Sabato, Ph.D. commissioned a study on the Dictabelt recording using more modern analytical techniques. The report concluded that the recording did not contain sounds of the assassination gunfire and that it would be of "doubtful utility" as evidence to prove or disprove a conspiracy.

90% of Dealey Plaza spectators reported to have heard 3 shots or less]

I think it's supposed to be the ARRB - (Assassination Records Review Board)

Here is Frank Ragano, attorney for Santo Trafficante skip to 16:59 if you only want to hear the details

https://themobmuseum.org/blog/jack-...o-mobsters-evidence-of-a-jfk-conspiracy/

Has some good info as well

Here is Weiner's testimony. You know, the guy Ruby called right around the assassination, same guy who was with Allen Dorfman when he was murdered (but was himself miraculously unscathed)

https://www.jfk-assassination.net/russ/m_j_russ/weiner.htm

If you go look over on Mary Ferrell for Weiner's name you will find Little Al's recordings of him helping Tony Accardo after Accardo's only arrest.

Im sure this is all coincidence.

Oh and dont forget, the FBI began its VEGMON investigation in 1963, the year JFK was murdered.

Hoffa wanted JFK dead over Bobby. Hoffa is deep with Chicago and other LCN, and made this request repeatedly.
Chicago wanted JFK dead over Bobby and FBI up their asses and felt betrayed on getting JFK elected, and Cuba not having the correct support it should have had.
Marcello wanted JFK out because Bobby deported him.
Trafficante's lawyer says on tape that he was involved, per Hoffa request.
Then the FBI begins investigating LV at the same time they are watching everyone in the mob 24/7, the same LV skim that goes to Chicago, Miami (Lansky), New York, CLV, Detroit, KC, Philadelphia, Tampa, and Milwaukee as well as New Orleans and St. Louis and Providence.

So every single one of these cities (who had also just lost Cuban casinos) was now in danger of also losing their Las Vegas revenue as early as 1963, something that didnt actually happen until much much later, primarily because JFK was murdered.

The minute Bobby was no longer AG Johnson pulled all the warrantless wiretaps and this is confirmed both in Roemer's book and FBI memos.

Despite all of this, the Warren Commission says "Organized Crime wasn't involved"


And thats before we even get into Jack Ruby and his numerous connections to multiple organized crime figures going back decades as even Joe Fosco has shown.

But sure tell me again about the "lone gunman".

They released everything a few years ago, and there was no mob connection. It was a lone gunman, and while he did the shooting alone, he may have had backing from a foreign country.