I reckon he was surprisingly honest The real shock was Kay marrying him

Surely the family could have found Michael a nice Italian origin bride, suitable Mob Boss wife! to bear his children

WASP wife didn't bolster his "legitimate" front. Geary didn't hold back with his insulting and disparaging slurs of him and his family

He was honest She knew the exact situation

Was this honest?


Kay, my father's way of doing things is over -- it's finished. Even he knows that. I mean in

five years, the Corleone Family is going to be completely legitimate.

Maybe Kay deluded herself, but it's not like Michael was exactly forthright with her.

I reckon he truly believed in what he was saying that he could settle all Family business by murdering just his enemies then live a “legitimate” life as if his criminal past never existed

Maybe Michael deluded himself too What did Kay think happens during those five years?

Michael told Kay he'd been back from Sicily for a year. That would have given him plenty of time to discuss his, and the Family's, future with his father. I doubt that Vito would have planned to wipe out the heads of the other Families at that point, though Michael may have seen it as inevitable. So, I think he was, at best, deluding himself (as you said) when he told Kay that the Family would be completely legitimate in five years. More likely, he was lying to her to get her to marry him.

There's a big anomaly in that scene:

It's set in 1947: the wood paneled car in the background is a '47 Ford wagon, and the limo that follows them is a '47 Cadillac. Also, Michael says, "My father is sick, very sick," an exaggeration but an indication that he was still recovering from the December '45 shooting. BUT the day when he "settles all family business" is set in 1955--again by the cars shown. That's eight years later--too many years for the Corleones to be pretending that they were "weak" and ready to be knocked over. In reality, the pact that Vito made with the other Dons at the Commission meeting only covered his agreement to protect drug trafficking in the East, and the other Dons' agreement not to interfere with Michael's return to the US. It didn't cover their encroaching on Corleone territories, as Tession bitterly complained in the fish tank scene, No way would Michael and Vito have been around eight years later (in 1955), BTW: The novel gives no date for the day when Michael settled all family business.

My take, for what it is worth!
Both Michael and Kay deluded themselves

“when he told Kay that the Family would be completely legitimate in five years” as Evita posted “he truly believed” that would be so

Why would Michael need to lie to Kay to get her to marry him?
Michael had no qualms marrying Apollonia and surely could have married a nice Italian origin bride, suitable Mob Boss wife! instead of seeking Kay out

Coppola and Puzo messing with us! these anomaly things....

Kay was going to live her rich and privileged life funded by tainted money from other people's murder, misery and blood during those five years whilst her husband was laundering his unholy and evil, blood money clean

Michael's get out of jail free card! “Trust me That's all I can tell you about my business”

Sure thing Turnbull we could see the changes occurring in Michael among others, from the moment Michael reading about Vito's murder attempt in the Newspaper, his dinner with Kay in the hotel just before Michael visited Vito at the hospital and the subsequent sequence of events

Michael seemed to sense he cannot continue to distance himself “That's my family, It's not me” and needed to step up

It seems the WASP is our doing! As far as I can recall there was no such mention in the movie?
Besides WASP Kay was already Michael's girlfriend, long before Michael having to become the Don and the quest for "legitimacy"

Maybe I'm missing some meaning: it was "nearly ten years" from Connie's wedding party to Vito's wake, and the assassinations just a few days later.

Let's tackle the timeline once more, For Ol' Times' sake!

1. Connie's wedding and Vito's shooting in '45
2. Michael flees to Sicily in '46

If we timeline Michael wooing Kay in New Hampshire as '47 it leaves no time for Sicily during which there were Gangland war, Apollonia, Sonny is killed, getting Michael back and more

If he "settles all family business" in 1955 working back and rounding off to 'six' years, Michael's return to the US is perhaps '49 still --too many years for the Corleones to be pretending that they were "weak" and ready to be knocked over. let alone eight

1. Michael's been back longer than a year
2. New Hampshire 1951?
3. Anthony born 1952?
4. He was 3 years old in the Garden scene presumably 1955 Vito's death and the assassinations

(as you said)

I too reckon WASP is our doing!
Besides WASP Kay was already Michael's girlfriend, long before Michael having to become the Don and the quest for "legitimacy"

Maybe both deluded themselves but he didn't lie to Kay to get her to marry him There was no need
As Michael had no qualms marrying Apollonia, there was nothing stopping him from marrying a nice Italian origin bride, suitable Mob Boss wife! instead of seeking Kay out

Kay too had no qualms and was going to live her rich and privileged life as Mob Boss' wife for those five years

He started I'm working for my father now and finish my business”

'six' years plus three previous '46 '47 '48 Nine altogether
encroaching on Corleone territories but no attempts after Sonny is killed, to knock them over

[/i]

Originally Posted by Capri

Originally Posted by Evita

If we timeline Michael wooing Kay in New Hampshire as '47 it leaves no time for Sicily during which there were Gangland war, Apollonia, Sonny is killed, getting Michael back and more

If he "settles all family business" in 1955 working back and rounding off to 'six' years, Michael's return to the US is perhaps '49 still --too many years for the Corleones to be pretending that they were "weak" and ready to be knocked over. let alone eight

1. Michael's been back longer than a year
2. New Hampshire 1951?
3. Anthony born 1952?
4. He was 3 years old in the Garden scene presumably 1955 Vito's death and the assassinations

'six' years plus three previous '46 '47 '48 Nine altogether
encroaching on Corleone territories but no attempts after Sonny is killed, to knock them over

Here is a timeline I put together for Michael's sojourn in Sicily [i]based on the novel. Trying to put together a coherent timeline for anything in the movies is impossible.
http://www.gangsterbb.net/threads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=580389&Searchpage=1&Main=20650&Words=%2BMichael+%2Bin+%2BSicily&Search=true#Post580389

Going by Michael's own words “I've been back a year. Longer than that, I think.” pregnancy and Anthony being three years old, point to, around six odd years wait for the assassinations

There was no price on his head until Michael's own There are people who'd pay a lot of money for who he was, information
Thunderbolt clouded his reason and affected his judgment!

Such an extensive, well researched, informative thread indeed Turnbull you'd outdone yourself!

It seems the only dates clear and consistent as could be, are -

• the Killing of Sollozzo and McCluskey and Michael fleeing to Sicily was in January 1946
• Anthony was born in 1952
• Baptism murders were in 1955
• Anthony's communion party was in 1958 which makes Michael wooing Kay in New Hampshire 1951 due to Kay telling Michael:

So Michael's Sicilian exile was around three years? and Michael returned to America in 1949?
Going by Michael's own words “I've been back a year. Longer than that, I think.” Then again, what is longer than a year....?!

It seems with Sonny's killing, things loosened up and the Corleones were successful “pretending that they were "weak" and ready to be knocked over” - by doing nothing when Barzini's people tested the Corleones by chiselling Tessio's territory - until the Baptism murders!
ie: 1946 to 1955 nine years!!

I emphasized (by italics) that my timeline was based on the novel, not the movies. GFII makes it impossible to construct even a tentative timeline for Michael's Sicilian sojourn because nothing in II (except for some of Vito's young years) is in the novel.

Is Sicilian exile three years too long

Maybe I am misunderstanding? For clarity please I understood yours is *based on the novel Mine the movies Tongue-in-cheek!
eg: among others my No kidding! - that's [coherent timeline in the movies] an impossibility....