The papers look doctored to me. Plus more than a dozen top, top bosses are listed there as well. If he is a rat, then what are you saying? All the rest of them were rats also?
It doesn't make sense. Anything is possible in life. Anything! But put two and two together and use your heads. Junior spent 50 years in prison. More than that, he beloved son Allie is currently doing life himself. If Persico had been a rat, don't you think he would have made sure he and his son (and his cousins Andy and nephews), didn't get destroyed like that?
Otherwise what did he gain from his so-called' cooperation agreement?
It's a shot in the dark from Orena and his lawyers to get some relief from his sentence. But I've seen those documents and I can tell you that they DO NOT clearly explain or delineate who is, and who isn't, an informer on those pages. And by the way, each CI has their own special code as you know. The same 'exact' code is listed next to each and every name on that list.
So it looks to me as though there was one informer who was providing info on all those named on the pages, Persico included.
He had more than one son. And cooperating doesn't give you and your loved ones immunity for committing crimes.
It allowed him to stay on top and purge his crime family of his enemies.
But then again, you know all this.
I do? Lol..... you're doing all the talking. It's your theory remember? Certainly not mine!
The informant number is the same next to each individual. Informants are given unique identifiers. So if all of these guys were informants, would they all be given the same identifier? Or could it be that this particular informant "3461-C-TE" is just giving information on the individuals listed?
It was 1 single informant (obviously high level) who was able to provide info on each of those named individuals. Period! And Persico was only one of many he had info on.
It's clear as a bell on those documents. Why some people try and create sensationalism and run with all these bullshit statements is totally beyond me. (Orena I can understand, he's trying to get out of jail and will BS on anything that he thinks serves his purpose). But the rest of you? Come on now.
Stay on track fellas. It's better that way (for all the legit people who truly wanna glean real knowledge of OC) and not BS
Says the fantasist who only writes information about mobsters that portrays them in a flattering light and skips over all the things that would make them look bad. Such as rape, crimes against women and children, drug dealing, assaults against innocents et cetera.
And let's not forget about wiseguys who have verbally embarrassed big mouths and spineless blowhards that dared try and talk bullshit about them to their faces (or more commonly behind their back). I'm sure many a loudmouth has gotten red in the face after being confronted for that type of behavior as well. That seems to be something that you might have firsthand knowledge of. How fast all the tough talking loudmouths cower in the corner when confronted by a real tough guy.
If it's true, and it looks like it is, it shouldn't surprise anyone. I've always suspected certain top bosses of being top echelons if they appeared themselves to have a narcotics operation, however secret or discreet. Why? Because everyone knows "the G" is behind most if not all of the top drug dealers. Therefore any boss, no matter how legendary, if he appeared to have any narcotics connection, even if it was off shored and outsourced to foreign criminal conspiracies and groups in other countries, that boss likely received immunity from the CIA. You can be a top echelon that the police or DEA don't even know about, it's just that when they go to arrest you, someone always interferes who has higher jurisdiction. I have no proof, but do I believe Carmine Persico was a drug dealer, ultimately? Yes.
Alfa, which bosses do you suspect? Perscio, Genovese, Castellano, Anastasia, and John Ormento, to name a few were all either going to prison for life or had cases and investigations pending. They even framed Genovese in his second conviction. Succeeding bosses in a few examples were also sent away:Gotti, for the Gambino's, Cantena , Salerno and Tieri on the Genovese side, and Carmine Trumanti for the Lucheses. Do you mean bosses in other cites, since all my examples were New Yorkers, or do you mean ones I left out? Perscio did most of the last 50 years of his life in prison, Scarpa (A definite rat) was constantly left alone till the very end.
Sorry for the belated response. So my criterion here is if you are a boss and could possibly have a narcotics connection, you might be a TE. On that list would of course be Carlo Gambino and Paul Castellano. Of course. Carlo and Paul outsourced the selling of junk to "Zips". Everyone knows that. But it was Carlo who was rumored to have a CIA connection. One rumor was that Carlo provided information and ordered hits for the government when they needed it. But the CIA would explain his long successful run as an "untouchable" boss. Proof? I have none. Paul Castellano merely continued the operation.
RE Vito Genovese. Not government connected. Lucky Luciano reportedly said that Vito [by involving himself in drugs] was getting into something "he didn't know a fucking thing about".
RE Gotti. Not government connected. Gotti and everyone connected to him were dealing drugs without CIA immunity. Lucky would say the same thing about them that he said about "stupid Vito". Paul Castellano's hit was a drug war hit. They were drug dealers hitting a drug dealer. Thick headed bunch they were (the entire Gotti junta) .
RE Anastasia. Indirectly linked to the government through the Commission as an Underboss but fell afoul of his peers when he made himself an unelected leader. Anastasia's brother ran the docks of one of the waterfronts, and his brother was a big point man in the importation conspiracy, which I believe "the g" was behind. But Anastasia's brother reportedly only ran the Brooklyn waterfront. There is also a Manhattan waterfront. We don't hear too much about that.
RE Ormento. Yeah. He's listed as part of the French Connection.
RE Lucky Luciano. Connected to the CIA predecessor...Office of Strategic Services. He has all the markings. He was sprung from prison after reportedly doing work for OSS as a type of clemency or reward. The main thing in doubt is if he actually did the work that the government claimed he did, to earn that release.
RE Other bosses. I have no idea. You all have to connect the dots. But like I said, the first clue is narcotics. But everyone at the top of the narcotics trade isn't an insider, only some.
Last edited by Alfa Romeo; 08/22/2102:02 AM.
"For us, rubbin'out a Mustache was just like makin' way for a new building, like we was in the construction business."
That is Gregory Scarpa informant number. Carmine had a lot of information on a lot of top people in the 5 families on his rise to power, which allowed him to take over the Colombo crime family. For the sake of argument I have not seen anything to say Carmine was an informant, even the four top echelon informants who are unknown to me in New York don't have anything that remotely lines up with Persico being an informant. This is from the 1960s to 1980s. For the record Scarpa was not the only Colombo member talking before the 1980s.
Giacomo, you and I don't always see eye to eye and agree on things. And sometimes we don't even get along.
But I do commend you on what you just said here. And I do agree with you 1000% on this particular subject matter.
Junior was no rat. And if he was, these bullshit documents that were wantonly blasted in the newspaper certainly don't prove it!
They gotta show us the proof. Legit proof, not BS.
The informant number is the same next to each individual. Informants are given unique identifiers. So if all of these guys were informants, would they all be given the same identifier? Or could it be that this particular informant "3461-C-TE" is just giving information on the individuals listed?
That very well could be.
"For us, rubbin'out a Mustache was just like makin' way for a new building, like we was in the construction business."
The informant number is the same next to each individual. Informants are given unique identifiers. So if all of these guys were informants, would they all be given the same identifier? Or could it be that this particular informant "3461-C-TE" is just giving information on the individuals listed?
NY 3461 TE is Greg Scarpas number. He is just reporting to the Feds who are Capos in each Family. Alfredo "Freddy the Sidge" Santantonio was NY 3864 TE before he got whacked. I've got others in my files. bill Bonanno's informant number was always redacted in files I've seen but I'm gonna do an FOIA on him next. He definitely gave info and his handler was Special Agent Armstrong
That is Gregory Scarpa informant number. Carmine had a lot of information on a lot of top people in the 5 families on his rise to power, which allowed him to take over the Colombo crime family. For the sake of argument I have not seen anything to say Carmine was an informant, even the four top echelon informants who are unknown to me in New York don't have anything that remotely lines up with Persico being an informant. This is from the 1960s to 1980s. For the record Scarpa was not the only Colombo member talking before the 1980s.
I totally agree Gio....why would a major boss f--ck himself over 4 a bullshit manuvear 2 take what he knew was 2 b his??....from my 30 plus yrs.. , the whole thing lands down on f--ckig Scarpa Sr....that asshole was a crazy f-ck just like Scarfo Sr........Greg should have never taken asprin 4 his( at least)..daughters' sake....she was (& is) a nice & beautiful woman..I can't believe when I see that episode of that show where Karen Gravano tells her she was not invited ....she looks so sad.
ITS OBVIOUS HE WAS A RAT IN 71 so he could move to the top of the Colombo family which he did soon after. I’m sure he wasn’t a rat for decades he wouldn’t have done time but all these guys at best rat on they’re enemies from time to time or to eliminate the competition which is what he did here probably ratting on Colombo so he could take over and resolve his highjacking case in a favorable way to himself....
Louie you are quite possibly the dumbest motherfucker I have ever seen in my life. Do you do drugs or were you dropped on your head as a baby?
If you knew who I really was, the last thing you would call me is stupid....You’ve been in this long enough to know how the life is...the life is treacherous, full of back stabbing and deceit...I’m 100% sure Carmine Persico wasn’t a rat for decades, he wouldnt have done time. BUT I THINK ITS VERY POSSIBLE he could have briefly been a rat in 1971, giving info on Joe Colombo and it’s been rumored for decades that he possibly helped frame Sonny Franzese to remove him as competition to the throne...We both know even though Tom Dibella was Boss after 71 , that Carmine pulled all the strings through Dibella and the Consigliere Allie Persico Sr... Carmine Persico was a smart guy and harnessing the power of the FBI and using it your advantage is the smart move especially in that life where not making the smart move can cost you your life...
Dibella wasn't the Acting Boss until a few years later. When Colombo got shot they tried to put the Underboss Charlie Lemons Mineo up but he declined because he was too old and not in food health so they had a triumvirate of Joe Yak, Vinnie Aloi, and Carmine Persico. That held until Persico went to the can and Yak went into hiding after the Gallo hit. Carlo Gambino was close to Buster Aloi so he wanted his son Vinnie to be the Boss. That lasted for a few months. That's just the first year after Colombo was whacked. You know who was elected acting Boss after that or do your know? Hint: it wasn't Tom DiBella yet
Re: Persico was an informant
[Re: Njein]
#1018612 08/22/2102:47 AM08/22/2102:47 AM
To Mafia Student. I misread your post and what you were trying to convey. Please accept my apology and my insult to you. And thanks for NY to pointing it out for me. I'll try to be more patient when reading things.
To Mafia Student. I misread your post and what you were trying to convey. Please accept my apology and my insult to you. And thanks for NY to pointing it out for me. I'll try to be more patient when reading things.
No harm no foul ColonelReb - I wasn't very nice either. Onward and upward.
The other part that shows that this attorney is reaching is he is trying to say that the reason Michael Persico was able to get such a good deal was because his father was an informer what in 1971?
So the feds told the prosecutor to give M. Persico a sweet deal because his father was a C.I. 50+ years ago???
The other part that shows that this attorney is reaching is he is trying to say that the reason Michael Persico was able to get such a good deal was because his father was an informer what in 1971?
So the feds told the prosecutor to give M. Persico a sweet deal because his father was a C.I. 50+ years ago???
I can't believe when I see that episode of that show where Karen Gravano tells her she was not invited ....she looks so sad.
Whats more sad is hollywood glorifying these murdering and thieving pieces of shit.
The law says you cannot profit off of illegal crimes by making movies but it doesnt say your lame ass kids can't milk your mob past to get money and glorify the lifestyle.
Sammy Gravano is a perfect example of why the government is full of shit and the legal system in America is inherently flawed. The fact Karen is on there shooting off her big fat mouth and so is Sammy on youtube is disgusting.
With all that said Scarpa's daughter comes off as pretty classy.
Says the fantasist who only writes information about mobsters that portrays them in a flattering light and skips over all the things that would make them look bad. Such as rape, crimes against women and children, drug dealing, assaults against innocents et cetera.
Dont forget he now charges for his site which is little more than collating a bunch of other internet posts and putting them all in one place.
NYMafia is more of a NJ meatball, hes never been in the life, he just glorifies it, and he's doing nothing more than running tours through other peoples information shit and charging for it.
At least guys like Fosco/Franzese were actually in the life and are telling their stories unlike NyMafia who comes off as a hack version of Capeci/Kass
Re: Persico was an informant
[Re: Njein]
#1022474 10/27/2101:50 PM10/27/2101:50 PM
You don't think he was an informant but you think he gave information to the feds in the 1970s? That's the same damn shit. Either you think he was a rat or you don't, make up your mind. What I find astounding is how people can come up with theories all day long about stand-up guys but the moment we try to figure out what the government is doing we're conspiracy theorists.
I dont think Persico was a lifelong informer but I do think he gave the feds info back in the early 1970's to help move up the ladder.
You have absolutely Zero critical thinking skills. From 1972 until his death in 2019 he spent all but 2 and a half years in prison. Please thank tell us what info he gave and how it helped him climb the ladder!
I dont think Persico was a lifelong informer but I do think he gave the feds info back in the early 1970's to help move up the ladder.
You have absolutely Zero critical thinking skills. From 1972 until his death in 2019 he spent all but 2 and a half years in prison. Please thank tell us what info he gave and how it helped him climb the ladder!
Excellent point Colonel. It may not matter to him, he wants to make people think Perscio ratted. I don't think he really believes it himself. Persico was never out long enough to even do anything like that. If he had, they would have kept him out of prison, even if he stopped, hoping the would do it again. Perscio never gave them anything.
Re: Persico was an informant
[Re: Njein]
#1022520 10/28/2103:19 AM10/28/2103:19 AM
Underboss
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,727 Larry's Bar
I have looked at all information I have, and have not come close to an informant being Persico. Not just FBI and FBN/DEA, but also PD, Sheriff's, and State Troopers. Going through a lot of it I have to say thank you, as I may have found a made member in Buffalo who was an informant. So thank you for that. Carmine Persico didn't inform on anyone.
"I have this Nightmare. I'm on 5th avenue watching the St. Patrick's Day parade and I have a coronary and nine thousand cops march happily over my body." Chief Sidney Green
Re: Persico was an informant
[Re: Njein]
#1022527 10/28/2108:12 AM10/28/2108:12 AM
