Nobody remembers or gives a shit about Arthur Nigro and how he took a life sentence without turning rat. But everyone remembers Sammy the Bull.

Rats get all the attention, book deals, TV interviews and plenty of money. People like Nigro just get a prison cell and are forgotten.

Under those circumstances why bother staying mum?

Because especially in the case of Basciano you have sons that will be shelved if their dad would flip or because there mobsters that still believe in cosa nostra till I die or because have something to loose turning rat.
If you read the story of the rats in the last 5 years like Pennisi,Lovaglio etc was people that have nothing to gain remaining loyal so they preferred to flip.

Basciano would've never flipped anyway. It's hard for a lot of rats to accept this, but many people don't have the rat gene. Some of us are good, decent human beings who would never betray our friends.

Like I always said it doesn’t matter if you’re a rat or not if you are apart if that life and you steal, murder, and prey on people who are a piece of garbage. My only issue is that I feel cooperators still should serve more jail time even with a reduction if they have committed very serious crimes. For example Gravano should have served the amount of the time he did for the ecstasy thing the first time he was locked up and cooperated

Yes Ralphie,"betrayl friends" most rat doesnt had friends only fellow so for them was easy but must see case by case; more mobsters born between the 1950s and 1970s should be made if the recruitment pool wasn't amost dry.
Plus the fact that the rats doesnt need to hide like before and that they are thrested like stars,is an incentive to flip.
The kast attempts to try to whack a rat was when Pete Gotti send to guys to kill Gravano in the last 1990s and the 2016 attempts to whack Sean Richard by lucchese capo John Datello.

If you sign up for something, and take a solemn blood vow to boot, I think you should stand up and adhere to that vow. And in the event you choose to leave that life or vocation (for whatever reason), at least do not burn Rome down to the ground as you exit.

Have a spine. Act like a man. Do the right thing so you can walk away being able to hold your head high. Especially if you have blood relatives and friends who will remain in that life. Your actions will reflect on them for good or bad.

Now if you are a selfish prick who is only concerned with himself. Or you're jealous of the accomplishments of others and wanna stick it to them. Well then that's another conversation completely.

Likewise, if you're a C--t Lapper and a weasel who has no 'face' and doesn't really care what others think of him, well thats another explanation right there!

It takes a certain kind of fellow to be able to climb into that witness chair and point fingers at others for their wrongdoings, while you yourself had previously stood shoulder to shoulder with those very same people doing the same exact things.

Or to allow yourself to be debriefed privately by FBI agents as you name former friends and relatives, and sink them for their crimes so you can escape your own penalties.

A very 'special' kind of fellow indeed!

And as far as "getting all the attention, book deals, TV interviews, etc.,"...... WTF?? Is THAT what this is all about? Fucking others in the ass so you can climb on top of their corpses and profit from your being a rat and stool pigeon? WOW!

What a fucking sick mentality! Thats why this country (and entire society in general) is going down the tubes!

This "ME, ME, Its all about ME" mentality and current thought process shows what spineless punks many of the younger generation are.

What ever happened to 'selflessness', 'heroism' 'taking one for the team' and all that kind of stuff?

What happened? It's gone out of fashion??

NYMafia summed it up perfectly...one case in point Sonny Black Napolitano is a special case for me, for he knew his ticket was going to get punched. He still got in the car went to this so called meeting and took it like a man. He didn't run or flip but held the oath and accepted his fate.

For better or worse nobody would have the amount of of information we have in the mafia if it weren’t for informants I mean that’s just a fact. That said I don’t have respect got any mobster “rats” or not.

I don't know, I don't really think anybody should just turn themselves in to be killed like that. I mean it would have been better if he went and hid out somewhere for a while tried to see what happens. Then try to come back when things blew over. I don't know what kind of time he was facing, but surely it would have been better than just f****** giving up and letting them kill you.

Excellent Point!!! Let’s be honest the people who despise rats would do the same thing if it came down to saving their life which I understand. That’s why going into that life is a mistake to begin with for a variety of reasons morally and logically

Would do the same thing? Lol... I suggest you speak for yourself with that, not others.

oops I forgot you took the oath of omertà 😂

I wasn't talking about ratting. I was simply saying don't just give up and let yourself be killed, try to survive. In Sony Black's case I think he would have had a better shot if he ran away. I mean to be honest I really don't know a lot about this stuff I'm looking at it as an outsider.

. The funny thing is that in some cases they have tried to kill a guy who was actually loyal. For example Pete Chiodo comes to mind. They tried to kill him for being a “rat” even though there is a zero evidence he was. Then tried tried to murder his sister and killed his uncle. So you begging to wonder if the whole “loyalty” and “oath” are really myths or not. Salvie Testa is also a popular example

This is my honest and wholehearted opinion, if you are just a low-level scrub associate I can see you flipping. But just from what I've seen following the mob over the years most of these rats didn't gain much from their snitching. I don't think federal prison is so bad that it's worth sacrificing a lifetime gangster legacy, especially from the prison photos I've seen of the stand-up guys doing their time like men. They don't even go to the hardcore state prisons where people get stabbed and raped everyday. I just don't understand it. And some of these guys blood relatives disowned them, nobody likes a snitch. Just not worth it to me.

I don't think this is a one size fits all issue. They're all rats but there are degrees of rat.

Massino...Vitale...Casso....Gravano...Palermo...all upper level guys who flipped on their former subordinates - these are the guys that are supposed to be leaders and masters of that life and then they turn rat on guys some of whom they inducted. I have no sympathy for any of those names, they are all the lowest of the low, the guys who profited the most from the life and who gave nothing back when it was time to save their own skin. Guys who masqueraded for years as diehards who it turns out were nothing more than poseurs.

Then you've got the Pete Chiodos, Joe Valachis and Al D'Arco's of the world who hadn't done anything wrong and were marked for death. Who's going to lie back and take that?? Amuso/Casso practically begged those guys to become rats. I do have sympathy for those guys and can only imagine that I'd have done the same thing in their situations. The blame here lies in the incompetence of the administrations that would create this situation.

Then you've got the Leonettis, the DiLeonardos, the Pennisis, the DelGiornos, the Franzeses and others who are all in the debatable category. Guys that are slippery lowlifes but who were maybe given some sort of justification to flip based on how things went down (the facts of which, again, might be debatable). These are the guys I take at face value but from whom you'll never get the full story. They're all pretty charismatic characters so it's easy to get sucked in by them but if you listen hard enough you'll notice gaps in their stories. Still, they all felt at some time that there was some reason they had to get out of the life and it's reasonable to assume that mistakes were made on both sides of the equation.

Finally you've got total worthless garbage like Natale, Hill, guys like that. The difference between them and the Massinos of the world is that you'd be foolish to have expected much from any of these clowns in the first place, they were all garbage and the fact that they were brought into the orbit of the LCN is the fault of whoever introduced them, vouched for them and worked with them without realizing the obvious: that these guys were total losers.

Cafaro's son never got shelved. Scarpa's son never got shelved. D'Arco's son never go shelved. The list is long.

100% agreed. People like Massino and Casso are the worst of the worst afaic. These are men who got their own people killed for minor infractions and who ordered hits on people just because they "assumed" they ratted. And then when push comes to shove, they waste no time to become stoolies themselves.

Even when you say "all gangsters are scum" you gotta admit some are worse than others and people like Casso and fat fuck Massino are lower than dog shit imo.

Ever looked a lengthy prison sentence before?, all that bravado shit goes out the window and all you can think about is how the fuck am I going to get out of this situation. I've been in that situation twice and both times I turned down deals to cooperate but that was because I banked on the Police not having enough evidence to convict.

The point is it's all very well taking a certain stance from the comfort of your home when you've never been in that situation, but when shit gets real and things are looking real bad I can promise you that stance will soften a little.

Cafao's son was denied entry into the Genovese Family, Scarpa's son is doing life so it don't matter, I don't know about D'Arco's son

Yes but he wasn't shelved. He remained a Genovese associate. Still interesting the Genoveses wouldn't induct him even after he remained loyal to them.

I been there all my life. Can't tell ya how many times I was approached. But depending on how you were raised, and the core values you hold near and dear to you will play a huge part in whether you stand up or not. Or flip and become a rat.

As I've said, in 99.9% of all rat cases, they could have, and should have, avoided turning.

There is that legit 0.9% who were very justified in flipping. They had solid legit cause and no options left. And I DO NOT consider them true Rats or Stool Pidgeons as those terms are used.

But we're talking 0.9 or one percent here! Understand?

NO MATTER how you or anyone else would like to try and color it.

If I'm a well-accomplished Mafioso with a legendary Mafia past behind me, I'm not ratting, PERIOD! I'll take that life sentence and spend the rest of my time playing cards.

---
Not true!

I hate to even say it. Even think it.

But God forbid guys would kill you child, wife, mother, etc. And they were beyond your reach, and/or your abilities to reach them or get at them. And they destroyed your personal blood family??

Then all bets are off. I would then enthusiastically inform on each and every single one of them! And hang them the fuck out to dry! Understand me??

The only punishment better than that would be to slaughter them by my own hands. And drink their fucking blood!

A situation like THAT is the 0.9% I speak of.

THAT IS NOT RATTING! That is getting even and (half) justice! Because true justice would be by my own hand. Period!

Being approached for information because you might know something is a little different to facing a lengthy prison sentence and being offered a way out. It's easy not to roll on someone when you're not facing any prison sentence.

I worded my previous answer to you the way I did on purpose. Read between the lines. ok?

As I said "I been there ALL my life"

In more ways than I care to enumerate here on this forum.

I don't talk out of my ass. When I speak you can lay your bottom dollar on it.