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Don Altobello & Joey origins: Theory #1012832
05/31/21 01:24 AM
05/31/21 01:24 AM
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Don_Alfonso Offline OP
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Don_Alfonso  Offline OP
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My take:

Sometime after GF III, possibly in the early 1960s, Altobello is named by Michael as the new Don in NY, the replacement for Pentangelli as it were. He is an older man, and seemingly, more savvy to "big deals" than Frankie was (which helps Michael in his quest for legitimacy). He is given the position with the promise he will have more leeway to run things his way day to day than Frankie had, and eventually, comes to be seen as a Don in his own right as such after almost 20 years in the role. He was close enough to Vito to be named Godfather of his only daughter.

I do not think Vito would've made a soldier from a rival Family his daughter's godfather given the importance of such a role. No, only a trusted figure in his Family, I would think.

Let us say he is a young man when Connie is born, say in his 20s, perhaps a trusted but young button in Vito's Family, that would make him be around his 50s or 60s in the 1960s, closer to Michael's generation than the Mustache Pete that Frankie was.

Only, that's the inherent problem. A man like Frankie saw the small picture and as such was loyal. He was literally a man who was best at taking orders, doing numbers, drugs, gambling, and such; not the grand designs Michael had. Altobello on the other hand; He is of Michael's cloth and while he plays the role of a good ally, perhaps over time he secretly cultivates to be what Michael is, or surpass him. Where Michael sees big deals, Altobello sees even bigger ones, and comes to see Michael over time as an obstacle to them.

During the 1960s, he takes Zasa under his wing and Zasa becomes HIS de jure Boss of the Family (But in reality, as we see in the Commission scene, Joey is indeed just a pawn in the larger game to be rid of Michael), acting as if he himself has approached retirement, an elder statesmen of the Mob, but in reality, Zasa is his front Boss - his bella figura, as he himself puts it - a clownish figure intended to cover for Altobello, his lighting rod to take the hits publicly. It is clear no one takes Zasa seriously in the Mafia world; and he is not lamented or missed by Altobello when he is taken out. He played his part and took the bullets that should've been pumped into Altobello's belly, as was probably the design all along.

Altobello having been made Michael's Street Boss would explain his seeming deference to Michael, as well as the fact that he "backs" Zasa and seems on the surface to have control over him, as if Zasa is his apprentice. It'd explain why Altobello is on the Commission, and Zasa is not.

Last edited by Don_Alfonso; 05/31/21 01:25 AM.
Re: Don Altobello & Joey origins: Theory [Re: Don_Alfonso] #1012942
06/01/21 02:54 AM
06/01/21 02:54 AM
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Turnbull Offline
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This is another plot gap between II and III:

Michael certainly would not let the Olive Oil Business simply slip away in '58 just because Frankie betrayed him.He needed it. He'd appoint a successor immediately (although I understand why FFC didn't want to make a very long movie longer by showing that succession). Zasa would have been way too young (he looked to be about 40 in '79). Altobello wins by default among some posters here. But, Altobello would have been a contemporary of Vito's to have been honored by becoming Connie's godfather--no way would Vito have bestowed that honor on an up-and-coming button man in his 20's. And, Michael treats Altobello too respectfully for him to have been a subordinate to hyper-controlling, contemptuous Michael.

I don't have any better idea of who Altobello was, and why he turned on Michael, than I do of why Michael wanted Immobiliare.


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: Don Altobello & Joey origins: Theory [Re: Turnbull] #1013002
06/02/21 04:52 AM
06/02/21 04:52 AM
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Don_Alfonso Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Turnbull
This is another plot gap between II and III:

Michael certainly would not let the Olive Oil Business simply slip away in '58 just because Frankie betrayed him.He needed it. He'd appoint a successor immediately (although I understand why FFC didn't want to make a very long movie longer by showing that succession). Zasa would have been way too young (he looked to be about 40 in '79). Altobello wins by default among some posters here. But, Altobello would have been a contemporary of Vito's to have been honored by becoming Connie's godfather--no way would Vito have bestowed that honor on an up-and-coming button man in his 20's. And, Michael treats Altobello too respectfully for him to have been a subordinate to hyper-controlling, contemptuous Michael.

I don't have any better idea of who Altobello was, and why he turned on Michael, than I do of why Michael wanted Immobiliare.


Another thing: If he was some respected contemporary of Vito, a man who apparently "kept the peace between Sicily and America", why is he not at the Don's meeting in I. If we give him being around the age of 30 when Connie is baptized, he'd be 5-6 years younger than Vito. So already in his 50s during the Dons meeting scene. We see he's based in Staten Island in III, and his close relationship with Michael and Vito implies he wasn't a Sicilian Mafia member - because, if then, also, where is he during Michael's time in Sicily? If he was truly some great friend of Vito's, why wasn't he helping protect his youngest son, if let us assume he was a Sicilian gangster of some apparently high level of clout?

The only thing I can honestly take from it, that makes sense, is that he was a smarter version of Pentangelli - a guy in the Family who was important - and with Michael edging further and further away from criminality after II, and not really interested in the drama in New York, Altobello was given a free hand to run the Family as he wanted to the point it became his in both name and everything, eventually appearing to semi-retire and grooming Joey Zasa as a front Boss. That's the only thing that makes it make sense for me, and why Zasa is a Boss but not on the Commission, why Altobello seems to have a close, mentor like relationship with him and acts as if he can control him, etc.




Last edited by Don_Alfonso; 06/02/21 04:52 AM.
Re: Don Altobello & Joey origins: Theory [Re: Don_Alfonso] #1013019
06/02/21 12:31 PM
06/02/21 12:31 PM
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Posts: 19,512
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You're really getting into the spirit of this board, DA. Great! smile


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: Don Altobello & Joey origins: Theory [Re: Turnbull] #1013041
06/02/21 05:26 PM
06/02/21 05:26 PM
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Don_Alfonso Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Turnbull
You're really getting into the spirit of this board, DA. Great! smile


I appreciate that. I also appreciate your posts, you're a "wise and considerate" man.

That being said, do you think my theory holds water? Because we are left with a messy film, we have to draw a lot from it that is not stated (or perhaps even considered by the film itself). There are as I see it only three possibilities for Altobello's origin:

-Sicilian Mafioso of high esteem, who for some reason has retired to Staten Island

-A member of the Corleone Family Michael came to trust and allow to run things in Pentangelli's place over time, perhaps not being his immediate successor but eventually becoming so.

-Least likely, but a member of another NY Family Vito was close with, who perhaps conspired with Michael in wiping out the Dons in 1955 and was in turn rewarded the title of Boss of one of the other Families by Michael. Possible, but I do not see Vito giving a rival such an esteemed role in his daughter's life.

We can rule out he is a Sicilian gangster because if he was, he'd have helped out and given Michael extra protection there.

We can rule out him being of another Family, I feel, because of the fact that he's Connie's godfather.

Him being a Corleone who rose to #1 in NY makes sense for a number of reasons. Why would he be able to seemingly control Joey - who "runs what used to be the Corleone Family Business in New York" if Joey Zasa was not his presumed or eventual successor, his mentee? Why would Michael hold this man in such esteem and trust, if said man didn't earn Michael's trust over the years by being his ally and keeping the drama in New York from reaching him as he sought legitimacy?

Altobello in this case makes a lot more sense as Pentangelli's successor as NY Street Boss, than the earlier draft's version of Willie Cicci being such. An argument could be made for how THAT would've transpired, but it'd take a lot more mental leaps than this would.

Re: Don Altobello & Joey origins: Theory [Re: Don_Alfonso] #1013046
06/02/21 06:00 PM
06/02/21 06:00 PM
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Turnbull Offline
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DA, I appreciate the creative work you put into this theory. It's what I meant when I said that you're really getting into the spirit of this board. But, I just don't know where to put Altobello in the 20 years from '59 to '79--or before. Or, why he allied himself with Zasa and turned on Michael.


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: Don Altobello & Joey origins: Theory [Re: Turnbull] #1013049
06/02/21 06:48 PM
06/02/21 06:48 PM
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Don_Alfonso Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Turnbull
DA, I appreciate the creative work you put into this theory. It's what I meant when I said that you're really getting into the spirit of this board. But, I just don't know where to put Altobello in the 20 years from '59 to '79--or before. Or, why he allied himself with Zasa and turned on Michael.


I would say some interim period, some other guy was in charge of NY. Perhaps he was a Captain underneath this person and let us say in the mid 1960s took over. As for why he allied himself with Zasa, that is clearer in the film: Zasa was needed as a cover to take out Michael; Luchessi and Altobello had been planning it for a while - Remember, when Vincent courts them, they said if he'd come forward sooner, they wouldn't have needed Joey. Joey Zasa was a "patsy." As to why turn on Michael? Greed, for one. Secondly because Michael occupied the position as head of the Commission and Michael being alive kept Altobello from that.

Re: Don Altobello & Joey origins: Theory [Re: Don_Alfonso] #1013055
06/02/21 07:37 PM
06/02/21 07:37 PM
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mustachepete Offline
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As I've mentioned before, Altobello has some aspects of the novel's Bocchicchios: messengers and relative latecomers to the States. It seems they would have been arriving in the States just about when Connie was born, but that era seems pretty elastic. As with Roth, Vito's early gang would have been working allied with various people, and some of those would ended up in the Corleone Family while others drifted off. Altobello may have been someone like that, but Sicilian and Catholic and so a plausible godfather for Connie.


"All of these men were good listeners; patient men."
Re: Don Altobello & Joey origins: Theory [Re: mustachepete] #1025684
12/16/21 02:43 PM
12/16/21 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by mustachepete
As I've mentioned before, Altobello has some aspects of the novel's Bocchicchios: messengers and relative latecomers to the States. It seems they would have been arriving in the States just about when Connie was born, but that era seems pretty elastic. As with Roth, Vito's early gang would have been working allied with various people, and some of those would ended up in the Corleone Family while others drifted off. Altobello may have been someone like that, but Sicilian and Catholic and so a plausible godfather for Connie.


Pete, there's a Youtube analysis that supports your contention that Altobello was part of Vito's early gang. It also maintains that he took over the Tattaglia family at some point. However, that would have made him almost 99 during the film which seems implausible.


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