Lying just beneath the surface of Cosa Nostra are all the thousands of financially struggling hoodlums who operate on the fringe of money all their lives.

The vast amount of mafiosi and their associates, and other allied hoodlums who seem like they should have big money but really don't is shocking to say the least.

I mean what's the point right?

All the investigations and arrests, money spent on defense lawyers, criminal courts, judges, jail sentences and fines that these fellas have to deal with all during their mob careers is significant. And then after all off that to walk around broke most of the time? I mean WTF??

Whats the point of it all? Why get involved if you're not gonna make the big bucks right?

You'd be surprised at just how many of these guys (many of them with big names and top positions) are actually "Brokesters" as the terminology goes.

How do you know who are brokesters and who aren't? And to be honest that applies to most of society, only difference is many of us have back-breaking jobs and pay outrageous income taxes. I think Francesco Del Balso is a great example of how you really can't tell who's broke and who isn't, guy pretended to be a grocery store worker yet was somehow able to gamble away $8 million at a casino. Again we never really know. Of course the mob consists of hundreds if not thousands of broke associates and foot soldiers chasing a nickel, to be honest it sounds just like the workforce of thousands of other companies and corporations. Point I'm making is that the ordinary civilian life really isn't that much better.

For many people time in the can is a risk worth taking over slaving away on a time clock with a boss cracking a proverbial whip over their backs. Not everyone is cut out for the working stiff life, and I still stand my grounds on the regular civilian life for most people isn't much better. I don't see my opinions changing anytime soon.

What if you're a wealthy mobster on trial and the prosecution team is trying to paint a picture of you to the jury as a super-rich hoodlum who earned millions of dollars from racketeering, seems to me like a good defense strategy would be to pretend you can't even afford a lawyer. How could you possibly be this millionaire racketeer with a public defender? And not everyone with plenty of money lives extravagant.

So you got money but you go with a bullshit lawyer or a court appointed lawyer? LOL...and your life is on the line hanging in the balance?

Ok DD, you run with that line of thinking if you need to.

And I'm NOT advocating working a bullshit grunt job either. Only stating that if your gonna be a wiseguy. Then you'd better be 'wise' about it and make some solid scarola. Otherwise you risking your balls for what amounts to chump change.

Lol, call me crazy, but unless I have at least a 70% chance of beating my case I'm not breaking the bank paying lawyers.

Even at a regular job I say all the time that if you're not putting money back your whole working life is pointless. If your bank account steadily increases then it's justified.

Not sure what would be worse: be a person(s) that incessantly posts about the mafia and comes up with annoying hypothetical questions or be broke and in the mafia.

What would be worse is being some guy visiting a mob site and complaining about people posting about the mob.

Under our legal system.the Prosecutor does not have the luxury of "painting a picture" He must provide evidence of any unreported income,i.e. forensic accounting reports,IRS returns,hidden bank/brokerage account statements,etc,which can be linked to a defendant beyond a reasonable doubt. If the defendant can show legitimate income,then he's better off with a high priced lawyer who would have a decent shot at getting any prosecutorial speculation suppressed during Pre-Trial motions. Like any other evidence,anything the prosecution comes up with must be disclosed in advance to the defendant under discovery,so the burden of proof is always on the side of the State or Feds.If they cannot support their theory at trial with evidence ,the defendant walks

I understand that, but still, if the defendant can't prove how he can afford such an expensive lawyer it adds even more weight to all the evidence presented. Imagine the prosecutor asking the defendant how he's able to afford his $3,000 per hour lawyer, or however much they cost.

On another note, there was a gangster in Canada who was arrested in a $700/month apartment who was found with $18 million worth of possessions in his apartment. Mobsters in Italy have been found living in what appeared to be rundown rat shacks but turned out to be decked-out palaces inside. Again, don't always judge a book by its cover.

Not to beat a dead horse,but the defense doesn't have to prove anything. It is very rare for a defendant to actually take the stand as most lawyers strongly advise against it. If by some quirk he actually does,the prosecutor has no business asking how he can afford his attorney. Any 1/2 smart lawyer would object and any judge worth his salt would throw it out based on Attorney/Client privilege grounds. Remember,if the defendant doesn't take the stand,he can't be asked anything.

I still don't see why any wealthy criminal who's serious about keeping a low-profile and appearing modest would go all out on expensive lawyers, unless he has a great legitimate income as well, but that's just me.

Differences of opinion are what makes this Board so much fun !

Some of those guys have serious criminal records at a young age. So they're not going to get hired at a lot of places. Or maybe they really don't want to work at a job, at least one where they can't be the boss.

I'm talking hypothetically speaking. Lol

The point is that if your gonna be a hustler. Make sure your up to the job. Not that you don't get a real job cause your lazy, yet don't have the "talent" to work the streets either.

And don't kid yourself. Because to make real money in the streets does takes "Talent" for sure! And not everybody's up to it. Either mentally nor physically.

To be fair, most of Little Al D'Arco's life he wasn't in the mob, meaning he wasn't made. But at some point after he gained some rank he did earn good, I forgot just how much I'd have to read the book again. I still don't think the size of their houses and the rent they're paying is necessarily or always indicative of how much money they make or have. Also, keep in mind that money generated isn't for the mobsters to live it up, they're mostly making money for the family or organization, which goes into its coffers or "bank" so to speak, like a common fund. I know for sure the Bonannos had one probably the other families too.

There are soldiers who make more than capos. There are associates who make more than capos. There are soldiers who make more than bosses.

It all depends upon who the guy is, how well plugged in he is, and the action he pulls money in from. You'd be surprised at just how little some so-called goodfellas and captains earn. And how much some top soldiers and associates do bring in.

It largely depends upon their individual talents and those talents of the guys under him.

There's been mobsters caught in their cheap apartments and modest shacks with tens of thousands and hundreds of thousands of dollars in cash, I'm pretty sure they could've afforded something nicer. Many are truly broke, I just don't automatically assume that they're broke or don't have a lot of money just because they live in a cheap apartment, or because they prefer a tracksuit over a tailor-made Brioni suit and Gucci socks.

No chance you could use that as a line of inquiry. First of all, it assumes that the client is paying the lawyer. Sometimes someone other than the client pays the lawyer. Other times, the lawyer works pro bono. Many top lawyers will do 10% of their caseload for free.

That would be an absurd issue to bring up!

Ah, it is what it is, I just like to follow the drama of mob life. To be honest I never really gave much thought about who's really rich and who's broke. Even the brokest wiseguy has it better than what I'm doing right now, which is putting a harness on and going to work.

I can appreciate that. Thats a huge allure to mob life. Not grinding a 9 to 5 daily.

They live by the wits (or not)lol, and get lucky as best they can. Some thrive in that environment. others just survive, like everything else I guess

I've done some research into this. It seems that most inducted members get by just fine, but most are also far from being rich. The problem is that there's a lot of idiots in that life who just live for the day. Never save anything and just gamble thousands away like they're drinking water. Look at Philly. According to his friends, Joey Merlino's philosophy on Monday was to get to Tuesday. That sums up the personality of half these guys.

Stevie Beef was a brokester. Consigliere of the Bonnano family and lived in a rent controlled building.

You don't know that, and his rent-controlled building isn't indicative of that. I have plenty of money saved up and wear the same old outfits everyday and my company pays for my hotel room. Am I a brokester? I'm definitely not rich, but I'm not broke.

Something else we're not taking into account is inflation. Back in many of these guys days the dollar was worth a helluva lot more than it is today, and it didn't take nearly as much to live comfortably back then as it does now.

I’m assuming your life isn’t in danger and you’re not facing mandatory minimum sentencing while you work tho...that’s def a plus

I think if you work for your money , you tend to be more careful about spending it.
I always thought of criminals as make money spend money types.
I've known a good amount of drug dealers who earn way more than the average worker but 90% of them have an expensive vice. Coke heads, hookers etc..

Also , nowadays a really rich crook has to be careful flaunting his wealth. It can easily be taken away from them. As many lcn guys know.

It likely comes down to the ones who lived day to day and the ones who invested in businesses or made big money but lived small. They also wind up with more if they are not always paying lawyers in case after case. There are broke mafia members , there are few broke lawyers, if any at all.

Correct.

The ability to have first earned big money was pivotal. Next was to have been smart and able enough to have held onto that money through good intelligent investments, lack of criminal cases that ate away at your bankroll, and not blowing your funds like a drunken sailor on leave also helped.

Also many knock around guys are DG gamblers, big coke users, big drinkers and nightclubbers, have 2-3 'gumare's' etc. All of those things quickly deplete a bankroll (taking for granted that the guy in question even HAD a big bankroll to begin with - which many did not).