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Bugsy didn't "invent" Vegas #1006473
03/02/21 11:41 PM
03/02/21 11:41 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,512
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Turnbull Offline OP
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Las Vegas was Nevada’s fourth-largest city in 1930 with 5,000—count ‘em 5,000—souls. It had a Red Light District (“Block 16”) where gambling, booze and prostitution flourished out in the open to serve the miners and cowboys. The following year, as work was about to begin on the Hoover Dam, the State Legislature legalized gambling. They knew that the project would bring almost 10,000 workers to a site about 20 miles from Vegas. They were going to gamble anyway, so why not legalize it—and tax the proceeds. Overnight, Vegas became a boom town, with the Tax Commission receiving more than 250 applications for gaming licenses in the first month.

Benjamin “Bugsy” Siegel made his first trip to LA in 1933 and moved there two years later. He had visited Vegas many times, pushing the Mob’s racing wire on the sawdust joints in town. But, after narrowly beating a murder rap in 1942 and a bookmaking rap two years later, Siegel decided that owning a casino in Vegas would “legitimize” him:

There were seven hotel/casinos in Vegas in ’44, some air-conditioned, all built in the Western “Corral” style. Siegel made a move on the El Rancho Vegas but was rebuffed by the owner (who lived to tell about it). He bought the El Cortez and invited his New York Mob pals to invest with him. They sold the hotel a year later, nearly doubling their money.

Siegel next set his sights on a partially completed hotel on the edge of today’s “Strip.” It was already named the Flamingo by its owner, Billy Wilkerson, a LA restauranteur and publisher of the Hollywood Reporter, whose gambling debts left him unable to complete it. Siegel and his Mob pals bought him out. Siegel knew nothing about hotels or construction, but he threw himself into the project. He bribed Sen. Pat McCarran to get scarce building materials during wartime. His contractors ripped him off unmercifully (and lived to tell about it). He rashly made expensive changes to the Flamingo’s design and infrastructure, running up the cost from an initial estimate of $1 million, to about $6 million.

He also insisted on a grand opening date of 12/26/46, even though the sleeping rooms weren’t finished. His Hollywood star pals mostly stayed in LA. The high rollers came early, cleaned him out, and returned to the hotels in town, probably dropping Bugsy’s money at the tables there before turning in. Siegel was forced to close the Flamingo to finish the rooms. He reopened in the Spring of ’47 and reported a profit in May. But, by that time, he’d pissed off too many investors by selling thousands of points in the Flamingo, and through unpaid construction debts.

On June 20, 1947, Siegel was shot to death at the home of his mistress, Virginia Hill (who was in Europe at the time). No one was ever arrested for the murder, much less tried. But, before the body was cold, two big-time, Mob-connected gambling operators, Gus Greenbaum and Little Moe Sedway, moved into the Flamingo and claimed it. The hotel started making money hand over fist.

The Flamingo attracted the attention of Morris Barney (Moe) Dalitz. He had headed Cleveland’s Mayfield Road gang, who were the biggest rum-runners in the Midwest, bringing Canadian booze across Lake Erie in a fleet of boats so large it was called “the Jewish Navy.” After Prohibition, he ran gambling joints in Ohio and Kentucky. He also had legitimate interests in laundries. He was drafted and rose from Private to Captain in World War II, building and operating laundries for GI’s (you can see his commendation from the War Department in the Mob Museum in downtown Vegas).

He moved to Vegas in 1947, intent on becoming a major business and civic figure. He made a huge contribution to the city’s oldest synagogue and built a religious school that bears his name. Siegel simply bribed Pat McCarran, but Dalitz financed and managed his re-election campaign. He built the Desert Inn, the Stardust and the Sundance hotels, and operated a multi-state real estate company. He also built the Las Vegas Convention Center, which eventually brought millions of visitors from around the world to Vegas. He later said that "Las Vegas used to be just a gambling town. Now we are a resort destination. The Convention Center complements our purpose," He also built the Sunrise Hospital. His name was never in the Gaming Commission’s “Black Book”; he received the Golden Torch Award from the Anti-Defamation League in 1981.

Moe Dalitz, not Bugsy Siegel, “invented” Las Vegas by turning it from a provincial cow town to a global destination. Siegel did make one enduring contribution: the Flamingo was the first Vegas casino/hotel built in the modern “Tropical Resort” style instead of the Western “Corral” tradition. The Flamingo’s design approach set the stage for all later hotels, ending Vegas’ provincial look.


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: Bugsy didn't "invent" Vegas [Re: Turnbull] #1006484
03/03/21 01:55 AM
03/03/21 01:55 AM
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Dalitz has long been credited as the "founder" of Vegas. I think a lot of people took the Warren Beatty movie ('Bugsy) as gospel, not knowing the real story. I believe the Moe Greene character in GF1 was a loosely veiled reference to Dalitz. Also Hyman Roths "I didn't ask...who gave the order" soliloquy in GF2 clearly refers to Dalitz. Actually,I think the biggest Vegas gangster of all is Oscar Goodman (LOL)

Re: Bugsy didn't "invent" Vegas [Re: Turnbull] #1006487
03/03/21 04:16 AM
03/03/21 04:16 AM
Joined: Dec 2013
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That was good Lou, Oscar Goodman had defended many LCN members and he eventually became Mayor of Las Vegas. Agree Partially on Dalitz, but the other two bigger players were Meyer Lansky and Joe Adonis for putting forth the money for Bugsy.


"I have this Nightmare. I'm on 5th avenue watching the St. Patrick's Day parade and I have a coronary and nine thousand cops march happily over my body." Chief Sidney Green
Re: Bugsy didn't "invent" Vegas [Re: Turnbull] #1006490
03/03/21 06:25 AM
03/03/21 06:25 AM
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There is not one inventor to take credit for Vegas. Everyone played a part. Some like Siegel and Dalitz played more integral parts

Re: Bugsy didn't "invent" Vegas [Re: Turnbull] #1006491
03/03/21 06:33 AM
03/03/21 06:33 AM
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Havana would be Vegas on steroids if someone like Siegel or Dalitz had the forethought to know what the consequences of a Communist takeover would look like in the future. Shortsighted of them to think a change of leaders would be business as usual. With all their tentacles and reach the mob had 3k members at most, combined with cuban exiles and a silent partner in the US government they were.no match for Fidel. The only chance was to assassinate him which they failed to do. Cuba's still stuck in the late 50s to this day. If things went different it would be a UAE type paradise there today.

Re: Bugsy didn't "invent" Vegas [Re: Turnbull] #1006493
03/03/21 06:48 AM
03/03/21 06:48 AM
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According to Bee Sedway, Moe Sedway's wife, it was Meyer Lansky who first brought forth the idea of Las Vegas. They had never heard of the town before Lansky brought it up. He kept insisting that they go check it out, but it wasn't until Siegel got in trouble in New York that the wheels started rolling. By that time, you had already had Wilkerson's Pre Flamingo and El Rancho. No one really invented Vegas. Vegas would've happened one way or the other.

Re: Bugsy didn't "invent" Vegas [Re: Turnbull] #1006494
03/03/21 06:51 AM
03/03/21 06:51 AM
Joined: Nov 2010
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naples,italy
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Before Vegas there was Reno that was the Nevada vice city,Siegel created the Flamingo and started building the Vegas fame along Lansky and the other tought jews and after come the italians.

Re: Bugsy didn't "invent" Vegas [Re: Turnbull] #1006495
03/03/21 08:03 AM
03/03/21 08:03 AM
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Didn't the fact that Siegel took Virginia Hill as 'his girl', instead of her being 'everyone's girl' add to him getting murdered?

I think Joey A was one of the people most upset with that.


In Sicily, women are more dangerous than the shotgun.
Re: Bugsy didn't "invent" Vegas [Re: ColonelReb] #1006496
03/03/21 08:17 AM
03/03/21 08:17 AM
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Originally Posted by ColonelReb
There is not one inventor to take credit for Vegas. Everyone played a part. Some like Siegel and Dalitz played more integral parts


You also have to mention Anthony Cornero.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Cornero


"The king is dead, long live the king!"
Re: Bugsy didn't "invent" Vegas [Re: MolochioInduced] #1006510
03/03/21 12:50 PM
03/03/21 12:50 PM
Joined: Nov 2010
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naples,italy
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Originally Posted by MolochioInduced
Didn't the fact that Siegel took Virginia Hill as 'his girl', instead of her being 'everyone's girl' add to him getting murdered?

I think Joey A was one of the people most upset with that.


Virginia Hill robbed the money during the Flamingo construction,this is the rrason why was so hated?

Re: Bugsy didn't "invent" Vegas [Re: furio_from_naples] #1006520
03/03/21 02:03 PM
03/03/21 02:03 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,512
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Turnbull Offline OP
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Originally Posted by furio_from_naples
Originally Posted by MolochioInduced
Didn't the fact that Siegel took Virginia Hill as 'his girl', instead of her being 'everyone's girl' add to him getting murdered?

I think Joey A was one of the people most upset with that.


Virginia Hill robbed the money during the Flamingo construction,this is the rrason why was so hated?

Since the cost of the Flamingo soared from the initial estimate of $1 million, to $6 million, skimming by both Siegel and Hill was possible. It's also credible that Siegel was such a poor businessman and a profligate spender that his mismanagement sent the cost skyward. Hill always said that her money came from gambling winnings, gifts from Bugsy and her work for the Chicago Outfit.

Joey A did have a grudge against Siegel for taking Hill away from him. He had an even bigger grudge because he was one of the investors in the Flamingo project. So did Charlie Luciano, So did Meyer Lansky, Frank Costello and a lot of other investors.

(BTW: Hill testified at the Senate Kefauver hearings in 1951. One naive Senator asked her how she was able to maintain the loyalty and affection of so many men at the same time. "Haven't you heard," she replied. "I'm the best cocksucker in America."


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: Bugsy didn't "invent" Vegas [Re: Turnbull] #1006522
03/03/21 02:35 PM
03/03/21 02:35 PM
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For some reason, Bugsy reminds me of Stringer Bell...

Re: Bugsy didn't "invent" Vegas [Re: Turnbull] #1006625
03/04/21 08:39 PM
03/04/21 08:39 PM
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TonyBombassolo Offline
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Siegel wasn't killed for skimming he was killed for trying to run his own wire service after Continental Press just like James Ragen was killed for the prior year.

Last edited by TonyBombassolo; 03/04/21 08:40 PM.
Re: Bugsy didn't "invent" Vegas [Re: Turnbull] #1006629
03/04/21 09:21 PM
03/04/21 09:21 PM
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 2,682
n.e.philly
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Originally Posted by Turnbull
Las Vegas was Nevada’s fourth-largest city in 1930 with 5,000—count ‘em 5,000—souls. It had a Red Light District (“Block 16”) where gambling, booze and prostitution flourished out in the open to serve the miners and cowboys. The following year, as work was about to begin on the Hoover Dam, the State Legislature legalized gambling. They knew that the project would bring almost 10,000 workers to a site about 20 miles from Vegas. They were going to gamble anyway, so why not legalize it—and tax the proceeds. Overnight, Vegas became a boom town, with the Tax Commission receiving more than 250 applications for gaming licenses in the first month.

Benjamin “Bugsy” Siegel made his first trip to LA in 1933 and moved there two years later. He had visited Vegas many times, pushing the Mob’s racing wire on the sawdust joints in town. But, after narrowly beating a murder rap in 1942 and a bookmaking rap two years later, Siegel decided that owning a casino in Vegas would “legitimize” him:

There were seven hotel/casinos in Vegas in ’44, some air-conditioned, all built in the Western “Corral” style. Siegel made a move on the El Rancho Vegas but was rebuffed by the owner (who lived to tell about it). He bought the El Cortez and invited his New York Mob pals to invest with him. They sold the hotel a year later, nearly doubling their money.

Siegel next set his sights on a partially completed hotel on the edge of today’s “Strip.” It was already named the Flamingo by its owner, Billy Wilkerson, a LA restauranteur and publisher of the Hollywood Reporter, whose gambling debts left him unable to complete it. Siegel and his Mob pals bought him out. Siegel knew nothing about hotels or construction, but he threw himself into the project. He bribed Sen. Pat McCarran to get scarce building materials during wartime. His contractors ripped him off unmercifully (and lived to tell about it). He rashly made expensive changes to the Flamingo’s design and infrastructure, running up the cost from an initial estimate of $1 million, to about $6 million.

He also insisted on a grand opening date of 12/26/46, even though the sleeping rooms weren’t finished. His Hollywood star pals mostly stayed in LA. The high rollers came early, cleaned him out, and returned to the hotels in town, probably dropping Bugsy’s money at the tables there before turning in. Siegel was forced to close the Flamingo to finish the rooms. He reopened in the Spring of ’47 and reported a profit in May. But, by that time, he’d pissed off too many investors by selling thousands of points in the Flamingo, and through unpaid construction debts.

On June 20, 1947, Siegel was shot to death at the home of his mistress, Virginia Hill (who was in Europe at the time). No one was ever arrested for the murder, much less tried. But, before the body was cold, two big-time, Mob-connected gambling operators, Gus Greenbaum and Little Moe Sedway, moved into the Flamingo and claimed it. The hotel started making money hand over fist.

The Flamingo attracted the attention of Morris Barney (Moe) Dalitz. He had headed Cleveland’s Mayfield Road gang, who were the biggest rum-runners in the Midwest, bringing Canadian booze across Lake Erie in a fleet of boats so large it was called “the Jewish Navy.” After Prohibition, he ran gambling joints in Ohio and Kentucky. He also had legitimate interests in laundries. He was drafted and rose from Private to Captain in World War II, building and operating laundries for GI’s (you can see his commendation from the War Department in the Mob Museum in downtown Vegas).

He moved to Vegas in 1947, intent on becoming a major business and civic figure. He made a huge contribution to the city’s oldest synagogue and built a religious school that bears his name. Siegel simply bribed Pat McCarran, but Dalitz financed and managed his re-election campaign. He built the Desert Inn, the Stardust and the Sundance hotels, and operated a multi-state real estate company. He also built the Las Vegas Convention Center, which eventually brought millions of visitors from around the world to Vegas. He later said that "Las Vegas used to be just a gambling town. Now we are a resort destination. The Convention Center complements our purpose," He also built the Sunrise Hospital. His name was never in the Gaming Commission’s “Black Book”; he received the Golden Torch Award from the Anti-Defamation League in 1981.

Moe Dalitz, not Bugsy Siegel, “invented” Las Vegas by turning it from a provincial cow town to a global destination. Siegel did make one enduring contribution: the Flamingo was the first Vegas casino/hotel built in the modern “Tropical Resort” style instead of the Western “Corral” tradition. The Flamingo’s design approach set the stage for all later hotels, ending Vegas’ provincial look.

That's amazing that u would mention "Block 16"...my old man told me a couple stories of the same exact color..(thing)...back in the day, he knew a little something about Vegas...of course he was just outta Ireland but knew some cringy motherfuckers....he met some real mothers in the Irish Army in WW2....the stories he could tell.....


I didn't want to leave blood on your carpet...
Re: Bugsy didn't "invent" Vegas [Re: Turnbull] #1006756
03/06/21 09:27 PM
03/06/21 09:27 PM
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Hollander Offline
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Siegel hit was professional an experienced sniper probably military.


"The king is dead, long live the king!"
Re: Bugsy didn't "invent" Vegas [Re: Hollander] #1006762
03/06/21 10:12 PM
03/06/21 10:12 PM
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NYMafia Offline
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Originally Posted by Hollander
Siegel hit was professional an experienced sniper probably military.


supposedly it was Paul (Frankie) Carbo perched in that tree adjacent to Siegel's living room window who aimed that high-powered rifle at Bugsy. He was even detained by the police at the airport afterwards if I remember correctly. But they could not prove anything. It was only circumstantial, so Carbo was released from custody.

Re: Bugsy didn't "invent" Vegas [Re: NYMafia] #1006766
03/06/21 10:23 PM
03/06/21 10:23 PM
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Hollander Offline
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Originally Posted by NYMafia
Originally Posted by Hollander
Siegel hit was professional an experienced sniper probably military.


supposedly it was Paul (Frankie) Carbo perched in that tree adjacent to Siegel's living room window who aimed that high-powered rifle at Bugsy. He was even detained by the police at the airport afterwards if I remember correctly. But they could not prove anything. It was only circumstantial, so Carbo was released from custody.


Yeah I think Frankie did serve in the US Army.


"The king is dead, long live the king!"
Re: Bugsy didn't "invent" Vegas [Re: Hollander] #1006771
03/07/21 12:13 AM
03/07/21 12:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Hollander
Siegel hit was professional an experienced sniper probably military.


Yeah, I never bought that it was Carbo either. Some accounts have Dragna as the shooter. lol. That was one tough shot, to hit him right in the eye from the sidewalk. Definitely someone who was in the war.


"...the successful annihilation of organized crime's subculture in America would rock the 'legitimate' world's foundation, which would ultimately force fundamental social changes and redistributions of wealth and power in this country. Meyer Lansky's dream was to bond the two worlds together so that one could not survive without the other." - Dan E. Moldea
Re: Bugsy didn't "invent" Vegas [Re: Hollander] #1006773
03/07/21 12:45 AM
03/07/21 12:45 AM
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Military? Are you suggesting that the military took him out?

Re: Bugsy didn't "invent" Vegas [Re: TonyBombassolo] #1006774
03/07/21 12:46 AM
03/07/21 12:46 AM
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DillyDolly Offline
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Possible. Bugsy Siegle was a powerful hoodlum in his own right. He wasn't just some pawn.

Last edited by DillyDolly; 03/07/21 12:51 AM.
Re: Bugsy didn't "invent" Vegas [Re: DillyDolly] #1006776
03/07/21 08:54 AM
03/07/21 08:54 AM
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Hollander Offline
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Originally Posted by DillyDolly
Military? Are you suggesting that the military took him out?


I mean military trained don't forget it was two years after WWII.


"The king is dead, long live the king!"
Re: Bugsy didn't "invent" Vegas [Re: Hollander] #1006783
03/07/21 01:32 PM
03/07/21 01:32 PM
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Turnbull Offline OP
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The "military" (trained or actual military) theories are based on the murder weapon: a WWII .30 carbine, a less powerful version of the M1 Garand, which was the standard infantry rifle for GI's. Some earlier writers think that the murderer was Chick Hill, Virginia's brother who lived with her, because he owned a .30 carbine. So did several hundred thousand other Americans, who bought them cheap as war surplus.

Michael Shnayerson, Siegel's most recent biographer, theorizes that the Mob knew Virginia had been skimming the Flamingo project and stashing the money in Swiss bank accounts. He thinks they made her an offer she couldn't refuse: keep the money and get Chick to assassinate Bugsy. Either Chick or a military trained sniper who was his friend, pulled the trigger. This is a ridiculous theory: if the Mob knew she was skimming, they would have forced her to hand it over and then killed her. And, they wouldn't have entrusted such an important assassination to a rank amateur.

Bugsy was capable of being charming, but he had a knack of making powerful enemies. They included the wire service operators and their customers, whom he screwed; Jack Dragna, whose rackets he'd been horning in on for years; and all those Flamingo investors, including Luciano, Adonis, Lansky, Costello, etc. They saw no return from the millions they'd invested. Follow the money...

Frankie Carbo could have been the actual triggerman. He pulled the trigger in the Harry (Big Greenie) Greenberg murder that Siegel was in on.


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: Bugsy didn't "invent" Vegas [Re: Turnbull] #1006784
03/07/21 01:39 PM
03/07/21 01:39 PM
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More vets and combat vets joined LCN after WW2 than any other time, which the families had no choice but to expand and extend their families, which is why the families nearly doubled their membership in the 1950s. After that there were successful hits with nearly or precise shooting. Siegel hit has the earmark of a professional shooter. That's what Hollander was getting at.


"I have this Nightmare. I'm on 5th avenue watching the St. Patrick's Day parade and I have a coronary and nine thousand cops march happily over my body." Chief Sidney Green
Re: Bugsy didn't "invent" Vegas [Re: Turnbull] #1007047
03/12/21 04:17 PM
03/12/21 04:17 PM
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I know a lot of guys swore by old .30 Carbines as basic deer rifles; if you could see it, it was close enough that you could probably hit it. They're kinda hard to find now.

Re: Bugsy didn't "invent" Vegas [Re: OakAsFan] #1007078
03/13/21 02:58 AM
03/13/21 02:58 AM
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n.e.philly
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Originally Posted by OakAsFan
Originally Posted by Hollander
Siegel hit was professional an experienced sniper probably military.


Yeah, I never bought that it was Carbo either. Some accounts have Dragna as the shooter. lol. That was one tough shot, to hit him right in the eye from the sidewalk. Definitely someone who was in the war.

And in Virginia Hills supposed house....the close up pics are insane...By the way..long time no see Oak...glad 2 c u ..


I didn't want to leave blood on your carpet...
Re: Bugsy didn't "invent" Vegas [Re: Turnbull] #1007149
03/13/21 08:22 PM
03/13/21 08:22 PM
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Yeah right in the eye a hunter would even hit that shot lol.

]http://i1234.photobucket.com/albums...siegel-death-photo_zpsf4126243.jpg?w=640


"The king is dead, long live the king!"
Re: Bugsy didn't "invent" Vegas [Re: DillyDolly] #1007217
03/14/21 12:53 PM
03/14/21 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by DillyDolly
Military? Are you suggesting that the military took him out?


Certainly not what I meant. I meant someone who served in the war, who learned how to shoot that accurately. A lot of mob associates served in WW2.


"...the successful annihilation of organized crime's subculture in America would rock the 'legitimate' world's foundation, which would ultimately force fundamental social changes and redistributions of wealth and power in this country. Meyer Lansky's dream was to bond the two worlds together so that one could not survive without the other." - Dan E. Moldea
Re: Bugsy didn't "invent" Vegas [Re: OakAsFan] #1007225
03/14/21 01:54 PM
03/14/21 01:54 PM
Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 1,564
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DillyDolly Offline
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DillyDolly  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 1,564
Okay I thought so just wanted to be sure lol


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