So your basically saying because Lancelotti is Italian he cant be an informant? What does lefty being jewish have to do w anything? I can assure you theres Italian wiseguys that are CWs that we wouldnt even believe....

Agree 100% with Biggie, Look Mikey Lance doesn’t talk much really, doesn’t dress flashy, and last time I saw him he was cruising around in a Jeep Grand Cherokee. He doesn’t go to nightclubs and flashy restaurants, he used to drink a lot though low key at the Jesters Clubhouse (I don’t know about now since he’s a Cancer survivor) . I will tell you one thing the guy is well respected and ALWAYS out and about in South Philly during the daytime. I agree with Biggie that he’s just been a combination of lucky, smart, and it helps that he’s quiet/non flashy guy.

-Dante

Is that what you think I'm saying Louie? Hardly.

What I AM saying is that Lefty was an "outsider" and someone who was NOT a born, dyed-in-the-wool hoodlum from the get-go. He was a schemer and later affiliated with the mob. But was NOT a full blown hood, nor did he "commit" to that life, let alone take a Sicilian "blood oath" of loyalty. They therefore were supposed to "commit" to the life. Whereas a Rosenthal did not make such as commitment. He also did NOT have a wide-full knowledge of larger mafia operations either. He only knew what he was assigned to, which was handling a casino for them. Period!!

A guy like a Vinny Cafaro, Phil Leonetti, or an Al D'Arco, are "blood committed" mafiosi. They WERE/or WERE supposed to be, committed! NOT a loose affiliate who really didn't give two fucks for Cosa Nostra per se. They are lifetime hoods. Not guys just riding the Cosa Nostra wave for their own immediate benefit, who play both ends to the middle (FBI and mob) at the same time. Understand me now my friend?

Guys like Greg Scarpa have done the same, but years ago it was not prevalent like it is today.

Dante mentions an important detail: Mikey Lance was down for the count for quite a while with cancer, at pretty much exactly the time that the crimes alleged in these recent indictments were taking place. Also, there's something to be said for living in a modest row home and taking a low-key vacation or two down the shore in the summer, and otherwise staying the fuck out of the Saloon.

He was well enough to be the acting boss and be active( he wouldnt be the acting boss if he was sick he would have been demoted) he was sick around 2013 not by 2015 when Persiano was wearing a wire, and induct people into the mob and hes avoided indictments since 1994...I think everyone is avoiding the obvious

Can someone logically explain these questions and answer them in the context of them being taken in theyre totality(meaning when you add all of the questions and evidence together)
How did he avoid indictment for being a shooter when Ralph Natale and Tommy Scafidi said he plotted to murder Stanfa and was one of the shooters in the Joey Chang Hit?
How did he avoid indictment in the early 2000s case when everyone else in that crew was indicted except for Gaeton Lucbibello who was indicted in 1994 and 2011?
How did he interact with Ron Previte time and time again including dozens of pictures with him and avoid indictment in the 2000 case?
How did he have the charges dropped by the state police in the Borgata case in 2008 because he was "misidentified" on the wiretaps and that it was a "different michael" directing Dom Grande and Anthony Nicodemo and Andrew Micali?
How did he assualt a guy with a beer bottle and then punch a guy in the face in front of a cop and only get probation,anger management and a $187 fine?
How did he avoid indictment in 2011 when he was all over the wiretaps between Licata and Fazzini and descriped as a "caporegime" and present at multiple induction ceremonys in the early 2000s and 2008?
How did he avoid indictment in the current case when he was recorded by a cooperating witness inducting him into the mob and called "the acting boss" and they discussed extorting bookmakers and loan sharks and his capos and soldiers dealt drugs including a soldier who has plead guilty to it, to selling to an undercover agent, when taken into account that every single other person at the ceremony has been indicted multiple times??

I guess my issue with your theory is that if you can figure this out and present the evidence, surely Joey Merlino or George Borgesi would have your evidence but times ten about Lance. And let's not pretend Georgie Borgesi wouldn't put a bullet in the head of his best friend if he had the faintest inclination they were a snitch. So either they are morons (a possibility) or Mike Lance has been able to show to them there's "no there there."

What "evidence" could he possibly show them to disprove it, I would think its more of a matter of hes theyre friend and been around forever and they dont want to believe it........
not to mention hes probably involved in murders and theyre theory is "if hes a rat" we would be in Jail for life but thats not neccesarily true with secret undercover informants......Carmine Lombardozzi, Greg Scarpa,all the top guys we dont know about who were informing against John Gotti and the later administrations,the "Top echelon member of the Chicago Outift" who as of 2009 had been informing for over 25 years etc etc and besides any of that I dont think anyone is going to refer to the philly guys as geniuses....

If not mistaken it was twice or two illnesses.

Without naming names because this fella is active as we speak. There is a guy, a top guy, who rose to become a goodfella, and then a capo. One of the top guys around. Very respected. He's been active for many years. In nearly every conceivable racket you could imagine. And he's been very successful.

In his entire lifetime, he's only taken a few bullshit pinches. I don't think he's ever even gotten a felony pinch in his life. Let alone a conviction.

He's never served 1 day in the can, with the exception of when he got pinched and was waiting to get out on bail. He has never served a prison term. Yet, he's been rubbing elbows, been shoulder to shoulder, with most of the top guys in NY for years.

And to the very best of my personal knowledge, he's NO rat. Just a very savvy, careful, measured fella, who picks his shots. Add in brains, smarts, luck, scheming, using buffers, and a very good game plan. And this man has come out a winner on the other end of the LE vs. MOB contest. The stars just aligned for him in his career.

What I am saying is all true. Every last word. And although this fella is a rarity for sure. He is not the only one around who has fallen into this category. Although admittedly, he's done it better than most.

So they ARE out there. You just gotta know where to look for them!

Right but this guy isn’t constantly mentioned at trial after trial and wiretap after wiretap and has he been recorded being called the acting boss and inducting members into the mafia? Has he been publicly named as a shooter by multiple cooperating witnesses and been arrested twice once for assualting someone in front of a cop and the other as part of a bookmaking operation and mysteriously had the charges basically dropped both times??? Your not comparing apples to apples. A Frank Camiso Gambino Capo would be a better comparison to the guy your talking about and Frank will be indicted soon any day now since his home and business were raided a year ago.... and you not knowing they’re a rat means nothing. They’re not going to tell you if they’re ratting...but most of the smart guys are rats because that’s the game. You can’t beat the govt, the smart move is to hedge your bets and play both sides...not to mention any true believer has to be completely disillusioned with the current garbage pails they make and the current state of some of the families ...

And can anyone give me any sort of logical answer to any of the questions I laid out???

Seriously I've been watching from the sidelines but did Lance bang your wife or girlfriend or something? You talk like you have proof that he isnt loyal to his friends but you have nothing at all and your persitant with it! Not everybody is a weasel like you!

To answer Louie’s questions:

First, how was Lancellotti not charged with murders or attempted murders when he had been identified as a participant by Gaetano Scafidi and Ralph Natale?

Natale identified Lancellotti, Lucibello and Virgilio in connection to murders and attempted murders but none of them were charged. Natale also identified Angelina as a participant in the Billy Veasey murder and he was never charged with that crime. Lancellotti wasn’t the lone survivor of the murder indictments. The defence even used this fact at trial to argue that the government didn’t even consider Natale to be too reliable of a witness. The same argument was made by the defence about Scafidi’s testimony about the Joey Chang attempted murder. Lancellotti, Virgilio and Joe Curro were then identified in 2001 in an FBI memo sent to Philly PD describing a plot to kill Natale’s kids. None of the three were ever charged with conspiracy. So that’s Lucibello, Virgilio and Curro all identified as participants in murders, attempted murders and murder conspiracies but not one of them were ever charged. Lancellotti isn’t a special exception in this case. If anything Natale would have been a better witness in a case against Virgilio because he personally congratulated him after the Anthony Turra murder.

How did he avoid indictment in the early 2000s when everyone else in that case was indicted except for Lucibello who was indicted in 1994 and 2011?

Again, Lancellotti isn’t the only one. Michael Virgilio and Joe Curro were never charged with anything. Looking at people who haven’t died, there’s quite a few members and key associates who haven’t been in any serious trouble over the past 20 years. Martin Curro, Philip Ligambi, Albert Lancellotti, the Wagners, the Salvos, Anthony Borgesi, etc. Everything out there about Lancellotti personally surrounds how he’s a very quiet guy who doesn’t say much and doesn’t talk to many people. That goes a long way, and if you look at top guys in other families who have been on the street for quite a while untouched that’s the same way they operate.

How did he interact with Ron Previte time and time again including dozens of pictures with him and avoid indictment in the 2000 case?

I haven’t been able to find anything to indicate that Lancellotti was engaged in any criminal activity with Previte. He wasn’t identified in connection with Previte in any articles in the 1990s and he wasn’t mentioned in The Last Gangster at all until Anastasia talked about how Lancellotti, Virgilio and Lucibello avoided being caught up in the murder cases. It’s not like Previte had criminal interactions with every active member and associate. I’m not disputing that he had social interactions with Lancellotti, that’s well documented, but it doesn’t mean they were involved in any illegal business together. Ligambi, Massimino, Lancellotti, Lucibello, Virgilio, Curro, Filipelli, etc., were all active in the late 1990s yet none of them were touched by Previte. Any legal trouble they got into later on was unrelated to him.

How did he have the charges against him in the Borgata case dropped?

Like you yourself pointed out, there were questions in the case over whether the wiretap evidence investigators obtained actually recorded Lancellotti or another Michael. And, yet again, Lancellotti was not the only figure to have charges dropped for this reason. Stephen Casasanto’s lawyer got the charges against him dropped a few months after the indictment for the same reason, arguing that prosecutors hadn’t done their due diligence in making sure the “Stephen” caught on tape was actually him. A couple of other figures in the case who were first arrested with Lancellotti also had charges dropped.

How did he assault a guy with a beer bottle and then punch a guy in the face in front of a cop and only get probation, anger management and a $178 fine?

First, Lancellotti was not identified as the individual who assaulted the man with the bottle. He was only pointed out as one of the three men who started the fight, at which point Lancellotti punched the guy. The victim could not identify who had hit him with the bottle. Lancellotti was charged with simple assault, which under Pennsylvania law is a misdemeanour and does not carry a minimum jail sentence. Probation, counselling and a small fine seems understandable considering (as far as I’m aware) he had no record prior to the incident, the victim wasn’t a minor and he wasn’t charged with using the bottle as a weapon.

How did he avoid indictment in 2011 when he was all over the wiretaps between Licata and Fazzini, described as a caporegime and present at multiple ceremonies?

The bit about multiple ceremonies is incorrect, they only mentioned him by name in relation to the one ceremony where Fazzini and Eric Esposito were made. Steven Mazzone was also all over those tapes where he was identified as the consigliere and they talked about how he wanted to get his brother Sonny made. He was never charged in that case and if you look at the comment section for Big Trial articles from around that time there’s some baseless speculation that Mazzone “has to be” an informant to not be indicted. Maybe if Lancellotti attended the meeting with Licata and the Gambinos himself and got caught on tape there talking about criminal activity he would have been indicted. There were recordings and witness evidence against everyone else who got indicted in that case connecting them to different crimes, the investigators just didn’t have that against Lancellotti.

How did he avoid indictment in this case when everyone else at the ceremony has been indicted multiple times?

No-one in the case is charged just with attending the ceremony. Mazzone financed a loan of $10,000 to Persiano and personally collected interest from him. Grande was involved in the loan between Mazzone and Persiano, approved Persiano to collect extortion money, approved Persiano to work with Servidio, hooked up another cooperating witness with a bookmaking operation, and on multiple occasions accepted money from Persiano that had been collected the same day from the other cooperating witness. No-one in the case is charged just with what they did or said at the ceremony. So far, there’s nothing to suggest that Persiano, or any of the other cooperating witnesses, had such dealings with Lancellotti. If prosecutors thought participating in the ceremony was enough to build a case then Ligambi, Ciancaglini, Accardo, Sam Piccolo, the Borgesis and the two other (publicly) unidentified individuals at the ceremony would also be charged in this case. Ligambi, Ciancaglini and Borgesi specifically were all there in leadership roles. And again, Lancellotti is not the only one out of them who hasn’t been caught up in legal trouble before. Anthony Borgesi hasn’t been involved in any serious trouble. We also don’t know who the two unidentified attendees are so we can’t say for those either.

…

The way I see it, Lancellotti has been able to survive on the street for so long due to a combination of the way he conducts himself, questions over witness reliability (Natale particularly), prosecutorial ineptitude (the Borgata case), and a fair bit of luck (not being taken by Ligambi to the 2010 meeting with the Gambinos, etc.) Louie might argue that’s too much, but that’s the way life plays out sometimes. Some people get lucky, and Lancellotti increases his odds of staying lucky by keeping himself low key and not talking to many people. I’m not saying he’s not an informant and I’m not saying he is an informant (though unless someone puts a document in front of me with his name on it I’ll veer on the side of him not being an informant). All I’m pointing out is there are other explanations for all of these scenarios. This isn’t a situation where the only plausible answer is that he’s an informant. You can explain how he’s survived on the street for so long without that theory. He's never been the odd one out. In every case there's always been at least a couple of guys who have skated for similar reasons. First there was Lucibello and Virgilio in the 1990s, then Casasanto in the Borgata case, then Mazzone in the 2011 case, then Ligambi, Borgesi, Ciancaglini, et al. in this current case.

very well stated Chin. My compliments.

One more possibility. Maybe it's just my opinion, but is it not possible that the government could try to make a guy seem like a rat? To pressure him into actually becoming one, or intimidate others into ratting or making a plea deal? Maybe that's what's going on with him.

Chin well done and stated; throwing all that in combined with 2 cancer scares alters your view on life and family and being smart so that he is not in prison with cancer and dying in a cell like others before him

Goddamn right! While most men in that life don't have his track record, there are still many in that life who've been able to dodge indictments almost their entire careers. The Genoveses have a ton of guys like that. Lance just doesn't talk much. He's hardly ever caught on wiretaps and he doesn't meet with everybody like his friends do. If anyone should run that family, it's him.

Chin nails it. Move on from this one Louie.

The only other guys who’s “skated” with him in other cases were low level flunkies so it wouldn’t be so obvious and all of those low level flunkies have been caught and arrested and imprisoned in other cases. You need to really think about non stop criminal activity by a capo and later boss and Philadelphia that has somehow avoided indictment for 30 years. You can’t name me one other person at his level. He’s literally the only one. Any lawyer w a brain in theyre head would tell they’re client to stay away from him and listen if he’s indicted in the current case in a superseding indictment I’ll stand corrected but remember he was also introduced at the Genovese Christmas party as the acting boss as well the “low key” guy who meets no one has literally been at every event across the country being introduced as the boss...
he’s been caught time and time again and is so low key that he’s the boss and caught conducting ceremony’s. Never in the history of American law enforcement has anyone been caught conducting a making ceremony and not been charged with racketeering. Please name me one other mobster in the history of American law enforcement who was caught conducting a making ceremony and wasn’t charged with racketeering. If someone can name me one other case I’ll move on??

Here's the key distinction: Patriarca and Piccolo weren't charged with crimes related solely to their presence at induction ceremonies. Piccolo was charged in relation to illegal gambling operations in New Jersey. Here's the counts against Patriarca:

Count 1 involving a RICO conspiracy; Count 2, the substantive RICO charge; Count 30, the Travel Act conspiracy; Count 31, the Travel Act violation occurring in August, 1985 involving Robert Carrozza; Count 36, the Travel Act violation occurring in August, 1989 involving Matthew Gugliemetti's travel to Connecticut; Count 38, the Travel Act violation relating to travel preceding the October, 1989 induction ceremony involving this defendant and Joseph Russo; and Count 39, the Travel Act violation in connection with the induction ceremony on October 29, 1989.

If investigators don't have anything against Lancellotti like they do with Mazzone and Grande (i.e., collecting extortion, gambling and loan sharking money from cooperating witnesses and directing them to engage in activities) they are unlikely to charge him. If all they have is the tape from the ceremony then he doesn't need to be a CI to skate on it. Same goes for Ligambi and the other ranking members on tape.

You posted this:

Count 38, the Travel Act violation relating to travel preceding the October, 1989 induction ceremony involving this defendant and Joseph Russo; and Count 39, the Travel Act violation in connection with the induction ceremony on October 29, 1989.

I’ll add from the same case. It’s clearly a crime it’s a travel act violation...not to mention at the ceremony they discussed extortion and loan sharking and he was called the boss of it all and furthered the racketeering enterprise by inducting new members. Each of those things are a crime in itself..AS IT CLEARLY STATES BELOW...



To put the Travel Act violations in context again, the defendant has pled guilty to all the charges against him. These charges include: Count 1 involving a RICO conspiracy; Count 2, the substantive RICO charge; Count 30, the Travel Act conspiracy; Count 31

All of the predicate acts and substantive offenses the defendant is personally charged with in the Superseding Indictment involve the Travel Act, 18 U.S.C. § 1952.


in 18 U.S.C. § 1952. "Unlawful activity," as defined in 18 U.S.C. § 1952(b), means: (1) any business enterprise involving gambling or narcotics; and (2) extortion. Travel to carry on a RICO enterprise in violation of 18 U.S.C. § 1961, et seq.,

Arguments have been made for both sides of this issue, some real good points without the name calling and put down of someone’s opinion that may not agree with your own. The way a debate should be. I am not convinced he’s an informant but only time will tell. And to be honest if any one of you told me in 1990 The Grim Reaper was playing both sides I would have said you were nuts so anything is possible.

Correct. Anything is possible with any of these guys. That fact has been proven out time and time again, from associates to bosses who flip.

But lets give the fellas the benefit of the doubt. Time will tell as you say

100% great back and forth ,chin w some great points as well. We need more of this on the board to keep it alive. There’s no reason this board shouldn’t be like a new real deal forum....

I agree 1000%

Couple other mentions of Lance


What follows is a partial transcript from that meeting, with Licata reminiscing about the 2007 "making" ceremony at which Fazzini and others were formally inducted into the Philadelphia crime family, refered to in the document as "LCN" (La Cosa Nostra).
Licata notes that Fazzini and Eric Esposito, a co-defendant in the racketeering case, were made at the same ceremony conducted by Ligambi. He states that Anthony Staino, another codefendant, also was present, along with Michael Lancelotti. Staino and Lancelotti, referred to as "Lance," have been described as capos or captains in the Ligambi orgnaization.


Licata: No. They brought him in. Lance [Michael Lancelotti] brought him in.
Fazzini: Yeah. Yeah.
Licata: He came late. He came late with him.
Fazzini: Yeah. And then, uh –
Licata: Lance. Caporegime.


Turncoat Philly mob associate and drug dealer Mike Orlando told jurors at a 2012 trial that the younger Lancellotti smashed the windshield of his car with a baseball bat when he fell behind on loan payments (Lancellotti wasn’t involved in the trial proceedings). Orlando testified that Lancellotti requested that he help in a conspiracy to falsely raise his uncle’s credit score, too.

Eric Esposito, who is still awaiting trail on gambling charges, ran the club, according to evidence. Martin Angelina, a mobster indicted in the current case and who pleaded guilty several months ago, was one of the club's owners.

Tapes played for the jury Thursday included discussions about a patron named Ralphie who was causing problems and picking fights in the club. In one conversation Canalichio described Ralphie as a "fuckin' junkie" and told Esposito that he wanted to "crack his head." In other conversations he asked both Angelina and mobster Michael Lancelotti to help with the problem.


The last piece of evidence shown to the jury Wednesday before the prosecution rested was a video surveillance tape made by the Philadelphia Police Department's Organized Crime Unit. The tape showed Ligambi and others entering the Saloon, a South Philadelphia restaurant, for what authorities said was a mob Christmas party on Dec. 17, 2009.

Police Officer Cynthia Felicetti, who worked the surveillance detail, identified the individuals she saw going into and coming out of the restaurant that night. She said she and her partner were tailing Ligambi and Staino. Staino drove to the Saloon and, over the course of the next three hours, she said, they watched and video-taped mobsters entering and leaving the restaurant. The tape shown to the jury included shots of Ligambi, Staino, Fazzini and Licata.

Others seen that night, she said, included Angelina, Massimino, Gaeton Lucibello (who also pleaded guilty pre-trial), Steven Mazzone, Michael Lancelotti, Frank Narducci Jr. and the late Frank Gambino.

Now it’s come out Carmine Persico gave info at one time. And people think Mike Lancelotti isn’t a rat hahahahah. It’s obvious..you don’t get so lucky that you just avoid every indictment..not in this day and age.not when he’s such a heavyweight player in the family now going on 20 something years

Lance is no rat you fucking idiot. You think Skinny Joey would be free if he was? This thread ought to be deleted. You keep smearing good people

I’d bet my life he’s been an informant.::
He just got recorded conducting a making ceremony and wasn’t arrested
He wasn’t arrest during Stanfa, he wasn’t arrested during Natale and Merlino and he wasn’t arrested during Ligambi..he’s literally the only one that can say they did that...wonder how that is?