I got a fun quiz for the forum.
I plan to list each borgata, Family by Family. I will list one every couple of days or so, ok.
Starting with New York City's Five Families... Who were the three (3) all-time stupidest members of the given Family that I list.

I DO NOT WANT YOU GUYS TO LIST MEMBERS OF ANY OTHER FAMILIES..... JUST 3 OF THE STUPIDEST MEMBERS OF THE FAMILY I ASK ABOUT OK??

For the first New York Family..... I want your opinion on the 3 stupidest, most foolish members of the COLOMBO FAMILY.

.............Go do your thing!..... GO!

Joey Gallo, Joe Colombo. Don't know enough about that family to name a third.

Big Donny Somma, Tony Frezza , and charlie LoCicero from the Colombo Family

Good picks ColonelReb, I agree on Dominic Somma, I'll also add, John Cutrone, and Salvatore D' Ambrosia

On review, there are SO many guys who fall into this category for one reason or another that my choices were very difficult indeed. But in my humble opinion the following three fellas would definitely have to rank in the very top level of foolish behavior, if not downright idiocy, or lunacy. I will also list the reasons for my thoughts on them ok;

1) Carmine Persico - although this man rose to the very pinnacle of the Colombo Family, he ended up serving literally "one hair away" from a full fifty years in federal prison to accomplish it.... Thats FIFTY, as in "50" years of his life! Persico served at least 3 prison terms that aggregated to 50 years. In truth, he was sentenced to a total of 139 years in jail. He lived into his mid-eighties, so essentially he spent nearly two-thirds of his life behind bars.... He died behind in jail.

As if that was not enough damage already. He also made sure to destroy nearly every single male figure of the Persico/Russo extended family blood line. From his brothers, sons, nephews, and cousins. Each served many years in prison because of their "loyalty" to Carmine. And his beloved son Allie Boy Jr., and nephew Chucky Russo are in jail serving a life sentence as I write this.
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2) Alphonse (Big Allie Boy) Persico - the older brother of Carmine served a life-sentence for murder as a kid. After 20 years he was paroled, only to fall again a few short years later (appx 5 years as a free man), and was jailed for the remainder of his life.... He died behind bars too.
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3) John (Sonny) Franzese - this man may be one of the most tragic cases of all three. After falling on a federal case and receiving 50 years in prison for bank robbery conspiracy, Sonny was paroled after only 9 years behind bars....He had a new lease on life so to speak. Mob guys were amazed by his good fortune, because he was buried, and they never expected to see him on the streets again.

So what did he do? He made sure to screw himself by getting his parole "violated" within 3 years of his release. He went back to serve a 2-year violation. After being released a second time again, the by then, 64-year old mafioso never learned his lesson. He would manage to get himself violated over and over, time and time again. Its almost like he was a complete dunce, and didn't have enough common sense or smarts to see the FBI freight train barreling down on him.

Over the next forty-some odd years, Franzese was violated at least 6 more times. He ended up serving more time on parole violations than the original conspiracy conviction. In 2010, the now 93-year old hood was still at it. He managed to get himself newly indicted on a fresh Rico case. This conviction brought him another 8 years in federal prison. In total, Sonny Franzese served over (40) years in jail on the federal installment plan. He was imprisoned over 8 times since 1970. Time and again, freedom would elude him.

While away, his blood family, his wife and children were destroyed. One daughter died from a drug overdose in her mid-20s. Another had emotional problems and died of cancer while in her 40s. Two of his three sons betrayed their siblings, mom and dad for money. They also both became federal stool pigeons.
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The collateral damages done to the personal blood families of each of these men were emotionally and physically destroyed.... was it all worth it?

Not in my book it isn't! And the stories of these 3 are only scraping the surface of many others who fell this same way.


PS: I think others such as Jerry Langella (165 years in jail, died there), and Joey Gallo (a nut who tried taking on the entire Colombo Family) deserve honorable mention as well. But the my top three are as listed.

Those are odd choices NYMafia. First of all, Sonny Franzese was framed by the US government. Second of all, he was never gonna be anything but what he was. I think he was perfectly fine with getting 2-5 years on the street between each violation. Plus, a lot of this has to do with luck. Carmine Persico was a brilliant man and even the judge who sentenced him acknowledged that. When I think of a stupid wiseguy, I think of someone who doesn't have the know how to operate in that world. One good example of that is Greg DePalma, a man who would tell strangers who was who in the Gambino family and even proposed an FBI agent for membership. John Gotti Jr. is another one. That man actually kept a list of proposed members for at least six years, denied he ever cooperated and then got exposed by a rat named John Alite, and said he had a "weak moment". Can you picture Sonny Franzese saying that? I can't. Now Alphonse Persico (Junior's brother) wasn't the brightest guy around, I agree with you on that one. By the way, another brilliant guy was Little Allie Boy who is doing life right now. Smart as hell, but was really unlucky. Went to college and was already a captain by the time he turned 27.

as an aside to this topic, but somewhat relevant, the dumbest was surely CARLO RIZZI!

You must remember RC, that Sonny had gone through 4 previous cases back to back before he was indicted on the bank robbery where he got the 50. He had a murder case, bookmaking case, extortion case, and home invasion robbery of a vending machine executive case. He was lucky enough to beat each one by the skin of his teeth.

Plus he was being trailed 24/7 for several years already. And had so much heat from 3 earlier grand juries empaneled that he knew he was hot as a firecracker.

So even though he was eventually "set up" by the FBI, he knew it could come. He knew it WOULD come, if he didn't change his MO. After he fell and did the 9 years and got paroled. He WAS TOLD, time and again from his mob buddies, his contemporaries, his family, and even some in LE to change his style. He was already pushing 60 and could have laid back, still earned, and avoided prison by having his subordinates go to the front. But THAT was not his style and he paid dearly.

Then he was violated and did 2 years. He did it all over again. He got 8 years..... Then 4 years.... Then 2 years..., then 2 years,... then more 8 years..... Then, at 93???

He falls again! and did another 8 years.....WTF!.... I don't care if your Lucky Luciano, Vito Genovese, or Carlo Gambino. Who the fuck does that?? And I don't wanna hear that that way his "life" because it was Carlo Gambino's life too!

And Tommy Lucchese's, and Joe Bonanno's, and Cockeyed Phil Lombardo's, and so on and so on...etc etc. You didn't see them tripping over their dicks they way Sonny did. Or running head first (repeatedly I might add), into brick walls!

Nearly ALL his jail sentences could have been avoided if he payed attention and heeded friends warnings. And when he did fall, it wouldn't have been for 40 years! Total! Total! stupidity up and down the line with him!

You seem to be of the belief he didn't try to take any counter measures in order to stay off the radar. He actually did. If he was outside, he was almost always in the company of an associate or someone who wasn't a felon. He actually had 20-year-old kids driving him around and delivering messages for him. And when he had to deal with the Persicos, he would only meet with Michael. You never saw him around Teddy Jr. or Andy Mush. And Tommy Lucchese, Phil Lombardo and Joe B weren't dealing with a 50 year sentence lol. Why are you bringing that up? We're gonna have to agree to strongly disagree on this one. Thank you for being respectful. Appreciate it.

Obviously Ralphie, there were a lot more dynamics than can be addressed here. Many more factors that went into the mix. But it was a spirited, interesting discussion with you nonetheless.

And as you said, we can agree to disagree on this one.... talk to you again

I remember Big Allie Boy differently. Not smart by any means but he got out of jail on t the Bove hit in 72. Stayed on the street until the early 80s until indelicted again and went on the lam until he was caught in 87.

And if Carmine Persico was smart he would've taken a plea on that Hijacking case during one of his many trials on that case he was offered like a 2 year deal in the 60s. Could've been in and out. He rolled the dice, got hit with 14 years and spent 97% of the 1970s in prison.

Were they allowed to take plea deals back then? I know Gotti prohibited his men from pleading out in the '80s.

Junior Persico spent most of his life in prison, there is no question about it. I don’t think he was stupid though. His IQ was measured at one 110, which puts him easily in the top 25-30% of the population in terms of general intelligence as measured by IQ. Famously when Judge Keenan sentenced him to 39 years in ‘86 he told Junior “Mr. Persico, you are a tragedy”, “you are one of the most intelligent people I have ever seen in my life”. Ed McDonald was quoted as saying about Persico “He was the most fascinating figure I encountered in the world of organized crime”, “because of his reputation for intelligence and toughness, he was a legend by the age of 17, and later as a mob boss he became a folk hero in certain areas of Brooklyn”. So whatever mistakes he may have made for whatever reasons, I don’t know that stupidity necessarily had much to do with it. Just my two cents

Tommy Scafidi

- What year did you graduate from high school?
- Senior year, your honor.

Not quite a crew, but in the North End of Boston, Billy Angelesco's son blew half his foot off with the shotgun he was holding during a drug rip off a couple of years ago. I think they arrested him at the hospital but don't quote me on that.

I don't know any of these guys personally, so take this for what it's worth. But I think some of those guys were not necessarily stupid, but they just didn't give a fuck. I think because of ego and pride they valued their buttons and their title of Boss ,Captain, or Soldier, whatever the case may be, more than their freedom. And the ones like Sonny Franzese who grew up before rats or RICO or any of that, they spent the first several years of their careers invincible to the law. That kind of power and respect must go to a guy's head. Money and power is addictive, it makes people crave more.

How 'bout Brooklyn Boss PaPa Baccala and his would be Capo, Kid Sally? Hell, Jimmy Breslin wrote a book about them "The Gang That Couldn't Shoot Straight".

1000% correct Fleming. 1000%

Power, the recognition, the chance for money, etc.

And let me state for the record, Junior was no dope. Far from it in fact.

But as a previous poster pointed out, Persico allegedly had a high IQ.

But my feeling and experience in life has shown me that no matter how brilliant or intelligent a fella may be. They nonetheless are capable of doing extremely stupid things. As you say, maybe the power and money went to his head and he just didn't give a fuck (In fact I am certain of that). Guys like Persico, Franzese, etc., were dyed in the wool hoodlums from the womb.

They didn't know anything else. Cosa Nostra was their entire world. Their entire life.....so no matter how "logical" an answer may have been. Jail was in the cards. and the position and "button" was worth everything to them. Freedom, family, happiness, etc etc

It's been proven time and again by many mafiosi. Cosa Nostra is a strange world. And many in it have an even stranger mentality as a mafioso.

NOW FOR THE BONANNOS.

# 1 - Philip (Rusty) Rastelli; Rusty served over half his life in prison. And accomplished nothing. And when he was on the streets, he lived like a piker. So what did he achieve in his lifetime?

#2 - Joseph Bonanno Sr.; he had it all. Everything! But he was not happy with everything. He wanted more. He pushed his weight around too much, and was also way to "heady" with his contemporaries. It didn't need to end up the way it did with him and his boy.

#3 - Dominick Napolitano; Once he knew he was in trouble, he should have taken off. Sonny would be alive today! Look at the scumbags who killed him? Joe Massino, etc. They turned rats themselves. So what did Sonny Black accomplish by be virtuous and following the bullshit rules of CN? When everybody else broke em anyway.... it cost him his life. He was a total fool for them.

The Bonannos Stupidest

1.) BENJAMIN "LEFTY GUNS" RUGGIERO
2.) SALVATORE "BILL" BONANNO
3.) GASPAR DI GREGORIO

Definitely! Lol.... honestly its a tough question I put forth, because there are certainly a lot of guys who fall into this category. Lol, its hard to narrow it down to 3 Lol

I say the stupidest crew would have to be those Springfield Genovese boys, after killing Al Bruno. They whacked a true mob legend, and that crew was shitty afterwards. I hope for Genovese reputation sakes they've been able to pick up the pieces and recover.

Man, Lefty Ruggiero is one of my favorite mobsters, but I gotta admit he wasn't too bright lol 😆

Rusty Rastelli was still able to whack family dissidents from prison and maintain power until his death.

I can't even argue with you on Joseph Bonanno, damn why couldn't he just roll with Carlo Gambino and Tommy Lucchese?

As for Sonny Black, the Bonannos didn't have their first rat until the early 2000s, over 2 decades after his murder. No way could he have seen that coming. I don't see any intelligence in the route he took, but still admire him for his principles.

As far as accomplishments, there really wasn't any in the grander scheme of things.

Yeah these days mobsters take sweet plea deals, had they done that from the beginning the American Mafia could've avoided lots of headaches, and I believe the families would be stronger today. Their stubbornness got the best of them.

Persico should've relinquished control of the Colombos to Orena, came to some kind of agreement with the other side, and bowed out gracefully. Infighting is the dumbest move in any Mafia family, they need to stop getting hung up on positions and titles and focus all their energy on making money. At the end of the day, it's all about the loot.

Because he was Joe Bonanno . The better question is Why couldn't they roll with him??? Long story short, I think that was part of his problem with them. Arrogance and entitlement

I don't think Sonny black was stupid or being virtuous. He was a true believer in that life. He accepted his fate. Wasn't a greedy weasal like most of them. Sonny was supposed to take off and what? Live in Montana? Sure he could have. But he'd rather die than live like that.

I get your point. But I have to disagree.

If he had disappeared for even a few years. That fat fuck Joe Massino and all the others imploded. Sonny could then have reemerged and been breathing today. Instead of having some blowjob put two in his head.

Theres no honor in that. Only foolishness IMO