I regard it as the top factor, it tops RICO. Can't use RICO against a group of criminals that just aren't there because they went extinct.

In America you can find just as many mobsters who served or are serving light sentences as you can in Canada. Let's admit it, Canada has more talented mobsters who are just better at it

Dilly Dolly, I wouldn't say more talented I would say better disciplined as they still have that connection to the 2nd generation and to Italy

Molochio, yes you are correct the guy name is Metelsky I posted a video on his presentation earlier on in the thread.

Okay Mike, that explanation works too.

Wow, that’s so interesting, I’m pretty sure that’s the guy. I personally don’t put anything past the police. That Metelsky abused his Level 2 CISC clearance to access some information or generate it, basically, he got orders to remove the Violis at all cost or something.

I even heard shortly after Pat Musitano was killed, that a ‘cousin’ of John Papalia was talking about how it needed to happen.

Turns out the guy married one of his buddy’s sisters whose family may be from Railway Street, pretty sure they’re Sicilian tho [Speziale?].

The guy is/was a loser Vice Cop named Sam Moore, same thing, seems too strange.

Interesting about Metelsky, I wonder why they would want the Violi brothers at all costs? I would like to know which Papalia cousin said that about musitano? My cousin in Hamilton knows a few of them they would run into each other time from time in the bars. I think it was Huss Village or something.
Nothing worse than a corrupt cop though! We have many here.

Dilly Dolly, you have good points also.

Something related to the agreements Vito Rizzuto made before and after coming out of prison with NYC/America, Canada (Hamilton, Toronto and Montreal) as well as Internationally.

He was providing contacts for premium coke or whatever (strippers IDK?) to those he believed could use them and didn’t necessarily attack his ‘Family’ blood relatives, but maybe his ‘Family’ business interests, during his incarceration. Also, it provided a washing of hands for all involved, and let him focus on Vendetta, while business returned to normal. It seemed to be working until he died, and things went crazy again.

The cop is saying he is a cousin, they should run into that guy. I wouldn’t know about the bar, sorry!

Somehow these cops got word on what was going on and for whatever reasons, prefer the bikers over the mob, as while as any OC element that would work against it. They HA/Cops in Ontario have a ‘North Hollywood’ so they can influence people via that, including the drugs, money and the prostitution of the above type of operation (women, men, kids).

@MikeM

Also, would you know anything about Rocco Luppino being referred to as ‘Caesar’ or anything along those lines, in and around December 2018. I didn’t know at the time, but it was right around the time when the Violis were being sentenced.

Whatever was indicating this, may have been related to the above, Rizzuto and his agreements. IMO it definitely is more international than regional and more than likely has deep roots in South America (Cartel & Mob).

Basically, for whatever reason, someone was supposed to be removed by the end of 2018, then Tony Magi was whacked. Shortly after that CeCe Luppino was murdered, and similar to Saverio Serrano, he was from a mob family, but appeared to be a legitimate entrepreneur.

The group that attempted to kill Serrano was out of Hamilton with HA ties, same group that whacked Angelo Musitano.
Thanks man!

Molochio, I asked around about Rocco being referred as to "Caesar" and nobody has ever referred to him as that name. He is usually referred to as Mr. Luppino or Rocco. I also asked my cousin in Hamilton and he said he never heard of any agreement with Rizzuto and Hamilton. Again there could of been, put cousin is privy to street talk and that never came up. Where did you hear that from?

Also the driving force behind the hit on Angelo and Serrano was said to have come from Danny Rameiri. Apparently one of his guys Cudmore had some connections with the HA my cuz knew him from the Hamilton north end.

I don't think there was any relation to the Magi hit and CeCe hit. Magi would Fuck over anybody he could and would use his connections to silence people, he was said to be involved in Vito's sons hit while he was incarcerated. CeCe from what I'm told was a complete gentleman and very respectful much like his father and his family.

Again this info is from people that actually knew him, not regurgitated buckshit from news articles and court documents

Thanks man! Ya, I don’t think it was a nickname, more of like a royal title, in the sense he needed to be obeyed from that point on. Obviously, it was nothing, my bad.

I don’t know if Hamilton was specifically spoke to via Rizzuto, but rather people that would delegate to Hamilton (ie. NYC, Buffalo, Italy), not totally sure. I don’t think he or anyone else planned on him dropping dead, so that sort of plays into it.

At the time I was observing some big money circles, the Wall Street type, so I was hearing all kind of things. I never really put any thought into it until Angelo Musitano got killed, reason being that I heard he was going to be killed in April 2014. Couple of the other people I was around, they have passed away, they were in their 90’s when stuff started getting weird around the same time. Also, been around a lot of fight gyms, but haven’t been around them since even before 2014.

When he did in 2017, it was a eye opener, since then a lot of stuff has turned out to be true and other stuff, like above, ended up being dead wrong.

Figured I’d asked, the timing seemed strange, but ya, it seemed like he was a legitimate entrepreneur and well liked.

You have Cosa Nostra, 'Ndrangheta even Camorra in Canada and its a liberal country Asians, Russians Jamaicans all kinds of organized crime.

Perhaps ... but we do have lax laws and lax sentencing ... if the deterrents are strong, it emboldens the criminal.

Are we talking about Domenic Violi? There was more than one encounter ... and in fact the court facts bore out a series of drug transactions.. not just one.

Background facts are only breifly summarized in one of court orders published in that case... https://www.canlii.org/en/on/onsc/d...AAAAAQAFdmlvbGkAAAAAAQ&resultIndex=2

I'll defer to those with greater knowledge though as I admittedly didn't follow the Violi case closely at the time.

In reply to @MikeM ... yes entrapment is illegal here lol but I'm not so sure this one fits the bill ..looks like he was regularly in contact with the police agent.

You can't downplay the strength of the US Federal Government. They don't play fair and have unlimited resources when it comes to fighting OC. Their conviction rate is like 90+%. They have a never-ending supply of paid informants and some of the silliest laws known with the witness protection program. That program entices people to cooperate and they use it when it doesn't even make sense. They've done deals with guys who killed dozens of people(Gravano, Massino, etc) people who've dealt billions in drugs (Flores twins). The US judicial system is so corrupt and vindictive you'd have to be crazy or really stupid to get involved in OC in this era. Look what happened to Paul Ragusa, the guy did around 20 years and when he's released to halfway house they use one of his former associates to cook up a crime and throw him back in prison. It was an obvious case of entrapment.

Don’t know which one or both, seems to be that the only guy around Abdalla, one of the suspects in the Angelo Musitano murder would know the most.

These guys were running boat cruises or whatever and their cops buddies (both on the street and at Mohawk College) were involved with some OC backing, maybe pulled these kids in via drugs, money and sex.

This Cudmore was texting 13yr old girls for dates, so it shows the type of people that are involved whether it was Ranieri or whoever, none of those guys had brains, rather lots of guts. If Ranieri was with Bravo, does that mean he also answered to Desjardins?

So the shot callers and leaders are still available to be discovered, just look to who hasn’t been hurt at all in this mess and you will find more than likely the real guilty people IMO.

Yep, that's why it's still way more attractive to get into organized crime in Canada and Western Europe. Comparatively lax laws and lax sentencing.

Though I don't know if it's going to stay this way. Italian OC is generally speaking very professional in Western Europe, but other drug trafficking groups are way too brazen. Putting hits on lawyers, sending out death threats to mayors...if they go on like this, give it another decade or so and our judicial system will become just as vindictive and penalties will become just as harsh.

Let's cut the crap lots of crime groups and gangs are thriving in America, just not Italians. It's because they're huge and enormous in numbers, they have the manpower that LCN just can't muster anymore. I still say LCN's downfall is due more to a loss in personnel than RICO or the Federal government.

This

Numbers are definitely a factor, no matter how you put it. Street/prison/biker gangs get busted all the time as well and in terms of the sophistication of the crimes they commit they're below LCN and in 95% of the time it's related to narcotics, which is profitable but high risk. The difference is that especially street gangs have thousands of young guys that got fuck all else in life and are willing to get into crime to make a living and are willing to deal with all the violence and risks of incarceration that come along with it. Very few make it to the top and once they're at the top it's for a relatively short period of time, but the point is: there's always someone ready to replace the other.

LCN as a criminal organization can not afford itself to operate like that. Not 20 years ago and certainly not now. And yes, this is definitely due to the lack of fresh and hungry blood. They can still recruit and they'll still be able to recruit for a while, but not like other gangs can. Say 40 years ago, there were still thousands of young Italian guys living in ethnically insular blue collar neighborhoods in East Coast cities. By now the majority of those families and their relatives have moved up in the world. There's none of that hunger anymore, most of them are not living in those tough neighborhoods anymore and earning your money on the streets has no longer become a necessity.
Adding to this, the majority of them have also become thoroughly Americanized, and most of the younger members of those very families are like 1/2 to 1/4 of Italian heritage. Intermarriages have taken place with Irish, Poles, Jews...in some (and increasing) cases even with Blacks and Hispanics. They're not Italian American any longer, they're just "American".

Of course, the Mob will still be around for a while. They still can recruit and they still are recruiting. They're still involved in illicit money making schemes and in our lifetime, we're not going to see the end of that. The name "Cosa Nostra" has enough of a mythic lure to it that as long as there is a sizable Italian American community somewhere, some people are always going to choose that path.
In terms of "power" though? Unless the American Mafia is going to start importing young and hungry Sicilians, Calabrians, Neapolitans or Apulians as if they're canned tomatoes, their streetpower for sure is not going to increase and will most likely remain in decline.