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What is the significance of the flashback at the end of Part II? #8259
04/29/04 09:06 PM
04/29/04 09:06 PM
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Mickey Offline OP
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You know the flashback sequence at the end of Godfather II where they're all sitting around the table getting ready to surprise Vito for his birthday. It's a touching scene especially when you consider that almost everyone involved is dead by the end of the second movie.

But, why do you think they included it? What is the flashback's significance as it relates to the rest of the story?


You straightened my brother out?
Re: What is the significance of the flashback at the end of Part II? #8260
04/29/04 09:07 PM
04/29/04 09:07 PM
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Scotland
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you've kinda answered your own question

Re: What is the significance of the flashback at the end of Part II? #8261
04/29/04 09:26 PM
04/29/04 09:26 PM
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Mickey Offline OP
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There's got to be more to it then just, "Hey, remember all these people? They're dead now!".

I have my own theories and interpretations, but I was just curious as to what other people thought.


You straightened my brother out?
Re: What is the significance of the flashback at the end of Part II? #8262
04/29/04 10:31 PM
04/29/04 10:31 PM
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To remind us of how Michael was when he was younger. How he tried to distance himself from his family and in the end that's how he ended up, without his family. Remember how he resented his father and Tom for discussing his future?
We also learned that Sonny introduced Carlo and Connie, which explains why he felt so responsible for looking after her (not only b/c she was his little sister but also b/c they were together b/c of him.)

Re: What is the significance of the flashback at the end of Part II? #8263
04/29/04 10:52 PM
04/29/04 10:52 PM
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Busta Offline
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yeah, krlea got it. It was showing how Michael never agreed with what the family was into. Sonny was mocking the people that were in the war and then michael informs them all that had just enlisted in the marines. It showed how he had diffent beliefs than everyone else in the family and how he never really wanted to be a party of family business which you can also see by him not getting up when Vito arrives and everyone else at the table runs to the door to greet him. FFC probably decided to put this scene in there at the end to show how everything that Michael had done since he shot Sollozo and McCluskey was one whole big thing that he wished he had never gotten into. He had to kill his own brother! After he did that, I think it made him realize and remember why he had never wanted to get involved with it in the first place.

Re: What is the significance of the flashback at the end of Part II? #8264
04/30/04 04:57 AM
04/30/04 04:57 AM
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Chancre Offline
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I dont know of any implicit significance for the entire scene, but its ironic how Fredo is the only one that realy supports Michael on the choice he made about enlisting.

I've always seen it as Fredo speaking from the grave and getting the final word in before Michael completely isolates himself from everything. frown

Note : GFIII completely ruined this theory as we find Michael having the time of his life before "they pull" him "back in. " He is a much different person than the prematured prince of darkness sitting on the Lake House lawn. So much for consistent story telling. ohwell

Re: What is the significance of the flashback at the end of Part II? #8265
04/30/04 05:11 AM
04/30/04 05:11 AM
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For me the scene is a short summary of Michael's life. Just like at the end of the present story in part two, Michael ends all alone, left by his own family. And ironicly, hé was the cause of all those people to leave him, while it where the people he loved.


"You never wanted my friendship, you don't ask with respect.."
Re: What is the significance of the flashback at the end of Part II? #8266
04/30/04 09:38 AM
04/30/04 09:38 AM
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SC Offline
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"Part II" was all about losing family in the changing times. The flashback scene at the end was a bittersweet reminder of "simpler", happier times when the family was together and it afforded Mike a look back on his life and an opportunity to ponder how much his life had changed. (The original script called for Don Vito to be present, telling Mike that "your country isn't your blood", but since Brando couldn't come to terms with the producers, the line was given to Sonny).


.
Re: What is the significance of the flashback at the end of Part II? #8267
04/30/04 10:08 AM
04/30/04 10:08 AM
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Another element in that scene: it gives us a "preview" of the behaviors we see in GF and II:
--Sonny's quick temper.
--Tom's lawyerly side.
--Fredo's dumbness.
--Connie's passivity.
--Carlo given orders by Sonny.
--Michael's coldness and independence.


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: What is the significance of the flashback at the end of Part II? #8268
04/30/04 11:56 AM
04/30/04 11:56 AM
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Marky Five Angels Offline
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I have always wondered if that flashback scene was meant to be included in GFI and left on the cutting room floor, or if Francis filmed it separately for GFII. Some books I have read say Francis hoped Brando would make an appearance in GFII, and wrote a scene that he ditched at the day of shooting when Brando didnt show up. Perhaps this was it.

Re: What is the significance of the flashback at the end of Part II? #8269
04/30/04 12:25 PM
04/30/04 12:25 PM
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Scotland
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He says on the commentary on GFII it was shot for that it and Brando was supposed to make a cameo but something meant he couldn't make it. I think it's better that you don't see Brando it adds something to it.

Re: What is the significance of the flashback at the end of Part II? #8270
04/30/04 12:48 PM
04/30/04 12:48 PM
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Quote
Originally posted by Marky Five Angels:
I have always wondered if that flashback scene was meant to be included in GFI and left on the cutting room floor, or if Francis filmed it separately for GFII. Some books I have read say Francis hoped Brando would make an appearance in GFII, and wrote a scene that he ditched at the day of shooting when Brando didnt show up. Perhaps this was it.
from what i remember, this scene was shot with GFII, it was not part of GFI
robert


In my home! In my bedroom, where my wife sleeps! Where my children come and play with their toys. In my home.
Re: What is the significance of the flashback at the end of Part II? #8271
04/30/04 10:10 PM
04/30/04 10:10 PM
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This was supposed to be (and probably still is for a lot of people) the last scene from th Corleones, and I cant think of a way to end it better.Those were the old times, the "good" times. It shows how diffrent Mike is from Vito.Vito kept his family, when Mike had just lost his. Mike only wanted to get away from the family and live his own life. He ended up getting away from the family, but he's not living his life, hes living his fathers life.


If winners never lose, well, then a loser sure can sing the blues.
Re: What is the significance of the flashback at the end of Part II? #8272
05/04/04 11:58 AM
05/04/04 11:58 AM
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London
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It was just great to see Sonny again, a great way to cap of the film, seeing Sonny, Mike, Fredo and Tom all together


Sonny - Well then, business will have to suffer, all right? And listen, do me a favor, Tom. No more advice on how to patch things up, just help me win, please
Re: What is the significance of the flashback at the end of Part II? #8273
05/10/04 09:03 PM
05/10/04 09:03 PM
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This is such a classic series and Coppolla is such a student of drama. The Shakespearean tradition is to bring all of the players back onto the stage and the end of the play. I suspect this was done kind of in that tradition.


"...for old times' sake?"
Re: What is the significance of the flashback at the end of Part II? #8274
05/11/04 04:34 AM
05/11/04 04:34 AM
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It was particularly good to see Sonny and Fredo share the screen, that should have happened more often


Sonny - Well then, business will have to suffer, all right? And listen, do me a favor, Tom. No more advice on how to patch things up, just help me win, please
Re: What is the significance of the flashback at the end of Part II? #8275
06/02/04 03:08 PM
06/02/04 03:08 PM
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Quote
Originally posted by Marky Five Angels:
I have always wondered if that flashback scene was meant to be included in GFI and left on the cutting room floor
I sometimes wondered that myself, until I sat down and really watched the sequence. Then I saw it wasn't possibly shot during Part I, for the following reasons:

1) Carlo was fatter in the face - in Part I he was in good shape.

2) Connie's hair was too styled - much like her hair in II than in I.

3) Sonny's hair was too natty - obviously he had a special "style" done for his role in Part I, but couldn't get it the same for Part II.

4) Tom's hairpiece was "obvious" in this sequence, whereas in Part I it wasn't that noticable.

Re: What is the significance of the flashback at the end of Part II? #8276
06/15/04 02:42 PM
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One of the best scenes in the entire series. I always looked at it as Mike reflecting back on his family and how he has lost them through his selfish actions.

Although Mike always said that it was all business, there was always a personal theme underneath all his moves.

IMO - it is the perfect transition into Part 3 where Mike is filled with guilt.

And with Brando not being in the scene - it adds to his character, his aura. By then, the character has almost become a myth. And with seeing De Niro play the part so well eariler in the film, to see Brando then wouldn't have been right.

I always was happy this is how it turned out.

And if Brando was too stubborn to do a day's worth of shooting for a director who cast him in the role of a lifetime, then he didn't deserve to be in it.

Re: What is the significance of the flashback at the end of Part II? #8277
06/17/04 07:25 AM
06/17/04 07:25 AM
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Whenever I watch that scene I think about the exchange between Tom and Michael:

"Many times your father and I have discussed your future"

In this context of the film it comes across as sounding like Vito had plans for Michael to be in the family business, when in actual fact the scene with Vito and Michael in the garden in GF1 told us the exact opposite. Vito confessed to Michael that he never wanted him to take part in the family business.

I find that particular moment in GF2 quite sad, like there was a time when it could have all worked out fine for Michael but that fate had something else in store for him.

Re: What is the significance of the flashback at the end of Part II? #8278
06/17/04 02:29 PM
06/17/04 02:29 PM
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I also felt that the scene was meant to show the isolation that Michael put between himself and the family. He wnated to be on his own and independent, not a part of his father's world and once again he now is once again alone.

Re: What is the significance of the flashback at the end of Part II? #8279
06/17/04 05:20 PM
06/17/04 05:20 PM
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Well, flashback was in Michael's head. He had just killed his father's son and was remembering how he wanted to be and how things turned out differently. He was feeling guilt and he was grieving over the past. frown That's how I relate this scene to the ending. But as Turnbull said earlier it was a preview of everybody's behavior so that was brilliant and beautiful. eek


"Fire cannot kill a dragon." -Daenerys Targaryen, Game of Thrones

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