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May 27th, 2012
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Amuso removes Madonna and Crea #973017
06/13/19 05:31 AM
06/13/19 05:31 AM
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Madonna and Crea have been demoted by Amuso. Michael “Big Mike” DeSantis is the new Lucchese acting boss.

Despite being in prison for the past 28 years, the 85 year old Amuso is still the official Lucchese boss. Cosa Nostra rules keep him in power.

The Brooklyn faction didn't like the fact that the Bronx faction ruled the family so they complained to Amuso who approved Madonna and Crea being removed from power and provided a hit list that included one capo and several Lucchese soldiers, if Madonna and Crea didn't step down.

Last edited by Neo; 06/13/19 05:36 AM.
Re: Amuso removes Madonna and Crea [Re: Neo] #973019
06/13/19 06:34 AM
06/13/19 06:34 AM
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And where did this info come from?


Never mind Gangland

Last edited by Serpiente; 06/13/19 06:40 AM.

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Re: Amuso removes Madonna and Crea [Re: Neo] #973020
06/13/19 07:07 AM
06/13/19 07:07 AM
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This is the guy that came to meet Al D acting boss in hotel room and Lil Al seen a gun and fled and him and his son ran for the Feds and flipped?

So if that’s true what Lil Al D saying then why would Amuso give him (Big Mike) the boss seat ?

So is this proven that lil Al was telling bullshit in his book I see guys posting about here ?

Because did not lil Al’s testimony crush him and that family? Don’t think Amuso would give Big Mike the seat if he fucked up a hit that led to a shit ton of guys going away and the loss of millions in rackets the lil Al exposed.

Last edited by Serpiente; 06/13/19 07:21 AM.

Cackling like a banty Rooster.

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Re: Amuso removes Madonna and Crea [Re: Neo] #973023
06/13/19 07:27 AM
06/13/19 07:27 AM
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I personally think it was a little from Column A, a little from Column B.

Al was stealing from the family and wasn't doing a satisfactory job in Casso and Amuso's eyes. He had sensed a change in their body language when conferring with him (particularly Amuso); he had sensed he was on the outs. Maybe they were going to whack him, maybe they were going to simply demote him.

It could be that D'Arco truly believes the events at The Kimberly Hotel happened as he describes.

But the guy was already paranoid at this point and his mind was probably just playing tricks on him. Casso and Amuso's bloodthirstiness and the bloodshed that was going on with more than one family in the late-eighties would put anyone on edge.

I wonder how close it was to this, before or after, that Amuso had screamed at Pete Chiodo in front of a load of guys, belittling a capo. Very testy times for all the big players in that family.

I'm curious if by some miracle Casso and Amuso hadn't been arrested in the early-nineties, how long would it have been before other guys besides D'Arco and Chiodo started questioning their treatment of made guys and broached the subject of taking them out.


I did 20 fuckin' years.
Re: Amuso removes Madonna and Crea [Re: Serpiente] #973024
06/13/19 07:31 AM
06/13/19 07:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Serpiente
And where did this info come from?


Never mind Gangland


https://gangstersinc.ning.com/profi...ia-family-boss-michael-big-mike-desantis

Lucchese family soldier-turned-government witness John Pennisi recounted how the men sent a coded letter to Amuso. “The administration of the family had shifted to The Bronx,” Pennisi testified in court. “There was a crew of guys very loyal to him out here, all Brooklyn guys, [who] wanted to take the family back to Brooklyn. That’s really what this was about.”

From behind bars, Amuso sent a letter back approving the leadership change. He also provided them a hit list in case the current administration refused to step down. “In the event that they balked or they wanted to hold their positions, we would deal with the guys from The Bronx,” Pennisi said.

READ: Vic Amuso may be imprisoned for life, but his word is still law on the streets of New York

The letter was enough. Despite being locked up for life, Amuso’s word still was law on the streets of New York. Madonna and Crea gave up their positions and stepped down, clearing the way for Michael DeSantis to become the new boss. He will rule a total of seven crews spread out over the Bronx, Long Island, Manhattan, New Jersey, and, of course, Brooklyn.

Re: Amuso removes Madonna and Crea [Re: Serpiente] #973025
06/13/19 08:27 AM
06/13/19 08:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Serpiente
This is the guy that came to meet Al D acting boss in hotel room and Lil Al seen a gun and fled and him and his son ran for the Feds and flipped?

So if that’s true what Lil Al D saying then why would Amuso give him (Big Mike) the boss seat ?

So is this proven that lil Al was telling bullshit in his book I see guys posting about here ?

Because did not lil Al’s testimony crush him and that family? Don’t think Amuso would give Big Mike the seat if he fucked up a hit that led to a shit ton of guys going away and the loss of millions in rackets the lil Al exposed.


Chin fucked up that hit on Frank but still made boss. Amuso fucked up a couple hits himself. Sometimes shit happens.



Last edited by Neo; 06/13/19 08:30 AM.
Re: Amuso removes Madonna and Crea [Re: Neo] #973033
06/13/19 11:19 AM
06/13/19 11:19 AM
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i read it over on capecis site heres my interpretation. madonna's the acting boss hes been in prison since summer 2015. theres not date availible so this is big brain guessing, in 2016 the brooklyn guys are like what thell. the acting boss is in jail for another 5 yrs and creas all the way down the bronx. so they start passing messages to amuso he takes madonna down. some how miked desantis is elect acting boss. i dont think crea was ever demoted or stepped down. dont make sense he did nothing wrong. i believe he went along with whoever vics choice as acting boss since madonnas gone, an pretty old. then in may 2017 hes arrested for abunch of shit they fill his spot with a acting underboss till the trials over. they kinda explain it that way this week. no one had a problem with crea it was madonna holding the acting boss title well in jail for 5yrs whats the point

Last edited by pmac; 06/13/19 11:22 AM.
Re: Amuso removes Madonna and Crea [Re: Neo] #973052
06/13/19 04:54 PM
06/13/19 04:54 PM
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Thanks guys ..

Yeah Chin did same and Genovese liked him he caught a break Genovese didn’t get rid of him .

Big Mike at the time was dealing with two fucken over the top killers as boss “ if true.

Last edited by Serpiente; 06/13/19 06:46 PM.

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Re: Amuso removes Madonna and Crea [Re: Neo] #973074
06/13/19 08:19 PM
06/13/19 08:19 PM
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I’ll always wonder if they did not plan to kill The Prime Minister and knew if they blew a hole through his hat he would bow out.
Gigante did well, he may have almost fucked up if the shot was fatal.


Be Loyal, Be Loving, Be Quiet.
Re: Amuso removes Madonna and Crea [Re: DuesPaid] #973088
06/14/19 06:34 AM
06/14/19 06:34 AM
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Originally Posted by DuesPaid
I’ll always wonder if they did not plan to kill The Prime Minister and knew if they blew a hole through his hat he would bow out.
Gigante did well, he may have almost fucked up if the shot was fatal.



Chin is not an Olympic sharp shooter. He can't be expected to shot a hole in Frank's hat without killing him.

Last edited by Neo; 06/14/19 06:36 AM.
Re: Amuso removes Madonna and Crea [Re: pmac] #973096
06/14/19 07:36 AM
06/14/19 07:36 AM
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Originally Posted by pmac
i read it over on capecis site heres my interpretation. madonna's the acting boss hes been in prison since summer 2015. theres not date availible so this is big brain guessing, in 2016 the brooklyn guys are like what thell. the acting boss is in jail for another 5 yrs and creas all the way down the bronx. so they start passing messages to amuso he takes madonna down. some how miked desantis is elect acting boss. i dont think crea was ever demoted or stepped down. dont make sense he did nothing wrong. i believe he went along with whoever vics choice as acting boss since madonnas gone, an pretty old. then in may 2017 hes arrested for abunch of shit they fill his spot with a acting underboss till the trials over. they kinda explain it that way this week. no one had a problem with crea it was madonna holding the acting boss title well in jail for 5yrs whats the point


I think that Crea would step down if in his trial would get a long sentence:

https://www.cosanostranews.com/2019/01/mob-trial-of-2019-five-luchese-wiseguys.html

Crea Sr. and Crea Jr. are also charged with the Meldish murder, an attempt to have a Bonanno associate killed, and other crimes.

Prosecutors also are seeking to link Crea Senior to major labor racketeering cases in the 1980s.

They also are seeking to highlight for the jury Crea Junior's alleged violent roots with the so-called Tanglewood Boys. Crea Junior was allowed out on bail, which is highly unusual in such a mob murder racketeering case.

Other sanctioned attempted murders in the indictment:

Stevie Wonder faces charges for ordering Luchese soldier Joseph (Joey Glasses) Datello to New Hampshire "to find, assault and kill" a cooperating witness last October.

In late 2012, the Creas ordered others to whack a mob associate who had disrespected Crea Sr. They traveled to the Bonanno gangster's "home, armed with a gun" but apparently never used it.

On May 29, 2013, Caldwell allegedly shot Enzo the Baker Stagno.

Re: Amuso removes Madonna and Crea [Re: Neo] #973139
06/14/19 10:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Neo
Originally Posted by DuesPaid
I’ll always wonder if they did not plan to kill The Prime Minister and knew if they blew a hole through his hat he would bow out.
Gigante did well, he may have almost fucked up if the shot was fatal.



Chin is not an Olympic sharp shooter. He can't be expected to shot a hole in Frank's hat without killing him.



Its easier to shoot a gun and miss someone’s head than it is to make a direct hit knowing it will kill the person.
He skinned him and took off a part of his ear.

Maybe did a little bit better than what was expected.


Be Loyal, Be Loving, Be Quiet.
Re: Amuso removes Madonna and Crea [Re: DuesPaid] #973142
06/15/19 03:18 AM
06/15/19 03:18 AM
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Originally Posted by DuesPaid
Originally Posted by Neo
Originally Posted by DuesPaid
I’ll always wonder if they did not plan to kill The Prime Minister and knew if they blew a hole through his hat he would bow out.
Gigante did well, he may have almost fucked up if the shot was fatal.



Chin is not an Olympic sharp shooter. He can't be expected to shot a hole in Frank's hat without killing him.



Its easier to shoot a gun and miss someone’s head than it is to make a direct hit knowing it will kill the person.
He skinned him and took off a part of his ear.

Maybe did a little bit better than what was expected.


Chin said "hello Frank" and costello moved the head and the chin miss him. But I think that Genovese ordered the chin only to scary costello.

Re: Amuso removes Madonna and Crea [Re: DuesPaid] #973143
06/15/19 03:54 AM
06/15/19 03:54 AM
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Originally Posted by DuesPaid
Originally Posted by Neo
Originally Posted by DuesPaid
I’ll always wonder if they did not plan to kill The Prime Minister and knew if they blew a hole through his hat he would bow out.
Gigante did well, he may have almost fucked up if the shot was fatal.



Chin is not an Olympic sharp shooter. He can't be expected to shot a hole in Frank's hat without killing him.



Its easier to shoot a gun and miss someone’s head than it is to make a direct hit knowing it will kill the person.
He skinned him and took off a part of his ear.

Maybe did a little bit better than what was expected.


Yeah I'm sure Vito Genovese didn't order Chin to "just nick his ear".

Re: Amuso removes Madonna and Crea [Re: furio_from_naples] #973144
06/15/19 03:57 AM
06/15/19 03:57 AM
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Originally Posted by furio_from_naples
Originally Posted by DuesPaid
Originally Posted by Neo
Originally Posted by DuesPaid
I’ll always wonder if they did not plan to kill The Prime Minister and knew if they blew a hole through his hat he would bow out.
Gigante did well, he may have almost fucked up if the shot was fatal.



Chin is not an Olympic sharp shooter. He can't be expected to shot a hole in Frank's hat without killing him.



Its easier to shoot a gun and miss someone’s head than it is to make a direct hit knowing it will kill the person.
He skinned him and took off a part of his ear.

Maybe did a little bit better than what was expected.


Chin said "hello Frank" and costello moved the head and the chin miss him. But I think that Genovese ordered the chin only to scary costello.


You to furio?

Chin said "this is for you Frank" and then shot him.

I'm going to have to come back to this forum more regularly to give you guys some more Cosa Nostra history lessons.

Last edited by Neo; 06/15/19 03:59 AM.
Re: Amuso removes Madonna and Crea [Re: Neo] #973168
06/15/19 02:18 PM
06/15/19 02:18 PM
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Quote
You to furio?

Chin said "this is for you Frank" and then shot him.

I'm going to have to come back to this forum more regularly to give you guys some more Cosa Nostra history lessons.


Neo,it just seems strange to me that Gigante instead of waiting Costello and shooting him in the head or riddling him with bullets,just called him and shot and missed him,Gigante for sure killed someone before and seem strange that failed the hit,especially if wanted that his mentor could become the new boss.

Re: Amuso removes Madonna and Crea [Re: Neo] #973171
06/15/19 03:41 PM
06/15/19 03:41 PM
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Serpiente Offline
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Yeah it must of been the circumstance ,like Costello may have been already walking in the apartment so Chin could not get off another shot , possibly a bodyguard could of been in area or others .

Because very strange Chin did not unload the gun knowing he may not live blowing the hit .... wonder if it was stage fright and Chin wanted to run .... just weird knowing he missed.

Then there could be possibly that Chin thought he was dead and would not fire another shot because that would be my reflex reaction to make sure.

Last edited by Serpiente; 06/15/19 03:43 PM.

Cackling like a banty Rooster.

I love this," "I just love this."
Re: Amuso removes Madonna and Crea [Re: furio_from_naples] #973176
06/15/19 06:42 PM
06/15/19 06:42 PM
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Originally Posted by furio_from_naples
Quote
You to furio?

Chin said "this is for you Frank" and then shot him.

I'm going to have to come back to this forum more regularly to give you guys some more Cosa Nostra history lessons.


Neo,it just seems strange to me that Gigante instead of waiting Costello and shooting him in the head or riddling him with bullets,just called him and shot and missed him,Gigante for sure killed someone before and seem strange that failed the hit,especially if wanted that his mentor could become the new boss.


There is no evidence to suggest that Chin participated in any hits prior to the Costello hit.

You're looking at Gigante as some sort of amazing ex-Special Forces hitman that couldn't possibly fuck things up, but in reality he was a 29 year old up-and-coming mobster chosen by Vito because Vito probably trusted him the most. Also lets not forget that Vito was a dumbass, a hit this important required an experienced hitman, a back up shooter and a getaway driver, but Vito simply sent one guy....his favorite protege.

Last edited by Neo; 06/16/19 02:10 AM.
Re: Amuso removes Madonna and Crea [Re: Serpiente] #973177
06/15/19 06:56 PM
06/15/19 06:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Serpiente
Yeah it must of been the circumstance ,like Costello may have been already walking in the apartment so Chin could not get off another shot , possibly a bodyguard could of been in area or others .

Because very strange Chin did not unload the gun knowing he may not live blowing the hit .... wonder if it was stage fright and Chin wanted to run .... just weird knowing he missed.

Then there could be possibly that Chin thought he was dead and would not fire another shot because that would be my reflex reaction to make sure.


Frank didn't have any bodyguards.

It may have been stage fright but personally I just think Chin fucked up.

You come across like furio, holding Chin up on a mantle piece as a top notch hitman, which he wasn't.

Frank wasn't the only boss Chin failed to kill. Gotti was another boss that survived a bungled Chin planned hit.

Last edited by Neo; 06/15/19 07:03 PM.
Re: Amuso removes Madonna and Crea [Re: Neo] #973178
06/15/19 07:14 PM
06/15/19 07:14 PM
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Moe_Tilden Offline
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IDK if I read it in the Carlo book or Brotherhoods but I remember reading that Casso and Amuso met Mangano to travel for a sit down with Gigante under the cover of darkness. They travailed through a rat infested sewer to go to one of Gigante's walk-ups (I think it might've been his mistresses house). They were offered alcoholic beverages, and supposedly mob etiquette dictates that you refuse, but Amuso got loaded. Amuso was supposedly acting aggressive and banging his glass off the table while talking shop with Gigante, and Casso was giving Amuso shade in his retelling.

I thought it was a pretty hilarious anecdote that doesn't get talked about enough.

That Brotherhoods was some book. I must dig it out again.


I did 20 fuckin' years.
Re: Amuso removes Madonna and Crea [Re: Neo] #973187
06/15/19 10:04 PM
06/15/19 10:04 PM
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I'm with Neo, Chin just fucked up the hit. In his defence, he walked up to Costello and shot him at point blank range in the head. Blood came out. He probably thought he'd done the job

@Moe. Brotherhoods is a great book. I've gone back and looked through it many times. Craziest Casso story was how he shot Jimmy Hydell's dog after it tried to bite a Lucchese wiseguy!

Last edited by MightyDR; 06/15/19 10:07 PM.
Re: Amuso removes Madonna and Crea [Re: MightyDR] #973189
06/15/19 10:42 PM
06/15/19 10:42 PM
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Originally Posted by MightyDR
I'm with Neo, Chin just fucked up the hit. In his defence, he walked up to Costello and shot him at point blank range in the head. Blood came out. He probably thought he'd done the job

@Moe. Brotherhoods is a great book. I've gone back and looked through it many times. Craziest Casso story was how he shot Jimmy Hydell's dog after it tried to bite a Lucchese wiseguy!


Yeah, I've tried to recommend it to my brother (who doesn't really care about mob stuff save for Scorsese movies) but "he don't care", much like Bobby Bacala's kids don't care about toy trains.

It's probably my favourite mob related book.


I did 20 fuckin' years.
Re: Amuso removes Madonna and Crea [Re: Neo] #973191
06/16/19 12:03 AM
06/16/19 12:03 AM
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Costello was said never to use bodyguards because they'd be the first to be gotten to by enemies and end up taking him out.

Re: Amuso removes Madonna and Crea [Re: blueracing347] #973196
06/16/19 04:28 AM
06/16/19 04:28 AM
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Originally Posted by blueracing347
Costello was said never to use bodyguards because they'd be the first to be gotten to by enemies and end up taking him out.


He had one bodyguard with him almost all the time. His cousins served as his bodyguard, Anthony Carfano served as his bodyguard for most of the 1950s
Is last known bodyguards were Joseph Schoenbrun and Joe Ship. Joseph Schipani became a Capo in the Genovese crime family from Costello dying and Gigante taking over in the 1980's.


"I have this Nightmare. I'm on 5th avenue watching the St. Patrick's Day parade and I have a coronary and nine thousand cops march happily over my body." Chief Sidney Green
Re: Amuso removes Madonna and Crea [Re: Neo] #973198
06/16/19 05:14 AM
06/16/19 05:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Neo
Originally Posted by furio_from_naples
Quote
You to furio?

Chin said "this is for you Frank" and then shot him.

I'm going to have to come back to this forum more regularly to give you guys some more Cosa Nostra history lessons.


Neo,it just seems strange to me that Gigante instead of waiting Costello and shooting him in the head or riddling him with bullets,just called him and shot and missed him,Gigante for sure killed someone before and seem strange that failed the hit,especially if wanted that his mentor could become the new boss.


There is no evidence to suggest that Chin participated in any hits prior to the Costello hit.

You're looking at Gigante as some sort of amazing ex-Special Forces hitman that couldn't possibly fuck things up, but in reality he was a 29 year old up-and-coming mobster chosen by Vito because Vito probably trusted him the most. Also lets not forget that Vito was a dumbass, a hit this important required an experienced hitman, a back up shooter and a getaway driver, but Vito simply sent one guy....his favorite protege.


So the Chin, in the mob heyday where to get made you must make your bones,was made and become a powerful capo only because was a genovese protégé?
So was hypocritical when blamed Gotti for wacking his boss.

Re: Amuso removes Madonna and Crea [Re: Neo] #973203
06/16/19 09:23 AM
06/16/19 09:23 AM
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We will never know for sure, but I think if Vito wanted Costello dead, Costello would have been dead. Chin may not have been some assassin like in the movies, but he was an experienced criminal by that time in his life. He was a gangster who was willing to point a gun at another man and pull the trigger. How hard would it have been for him to put one or two more in Costello's head? I am thinking that Vito may have thought that an alive but scared boss stepping down was an easier situation to explain to the Commission.

Re: Amuso removes Madonna and Crea [Re: Neo] #973206
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So is Amuso's family still getting $$$$ kicked up to them? The guy has been in the can for 30 years. If I was one of the guys on the street that Vic was using to keep the power, I'd be worried that guys like Crea would strike first and take out 1 or 2 of the loyalists and just take the Family back. Or are they letting Vic call the shots from jail as a lighting rod for the Feds since he's never getting out? I mean, who wants the job?

Re: Amuso removes Madonna and Crea [Re: Goldy] #973210
06/16/19 02:08 PM
06/16/19 02:08 PM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 4,744
naples,italy
furio_from_naples Offline
Underboss
furio_from_naples  Offline
Underboss
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 4,744
naples,italy
Originally Posted by Goldy
So is Amuso's family still getting $$$$ kicked up to them? The guy has been in the can for 30 years. If I was one of the guys on the street that Vic was using to keep the power, I'd be worried that guys like Crea would strike first and take out 1 or 2 of the loyalists and just take the Family back. Or are they letting Vic call the shots from jail as a lighting rod for the Feds since he's never getting out? I mean, who wants the job?


Its the same situation of Carmine Persico.What would do Crea? Start a war like Orena? Amuso is 85 y maybe the men on the streets are waiting for his death.

Re: Amuso removes Madonna and Crea [Re: furio_from_naples] #973287
06/17/19 05:59 PM
06/17/19 05:59 PM
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 547
N
Neo Offline OP
Underboss
Neo  Offline OP
N
Underboss
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 547
Originally Posted by furio_from_naples
Originally Posted by Neo
Originally Posted by furio_from_naples
Quote
You to furio?

Chin said "this is for you Frank" and then shot him.

I'm going to have to come back to this forum more regularly to give you guys some more Cosa Nostra history lessons.


Neo,it just seems strange to me that Gigante instead of waiting Costello and shooting him in the head or riddling him with bullets,just called him and shot and missed him,Gigante for sure killed someone before and seem strange that failed the hit,especially if wanted that his mentor could become the new boss.


There is no evidence to suggest that Chin participated in any hits prior to the Costello hit.

You're looking at Gigante as some sort of amazing ex-Special Forces hitman that couldn't possibly fuck things up, but in reality he was a 29 year old up-and-coming mobster chosen by Vito because Vito probably trusted him the most. Also lets not forget that Vito was a dumbass, a hit this important required an experienced hitman, a back up shooter and a getaway driver, but Vito simply sent one guy....his favorite protege.


So the Chin, in the mob heyday where to get made you must make your bones,was made and become a powerful capo only because was a genovese protégé?
So was hypocritical when blamed Gotti for wacking his boss.


In my opinion the main reason Vito chose Chin for the job was because he trusted him not to turn rat if he got caught.

Vito was the family boss in every way except in title. Costello at that point was unofficially the No.2 guy in the family.

Re: Amuso removes Madonna and Crea [Re: Goldy] #973288
06/17/19 06:28 PM
06/17/19 06:28 PM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 475
F
Fleming_Ave Offline
Capo
Fleming_Ave  Offline
F
Capo
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 475
Originally Posted by Goldy
Or are they letting Vic call the shots from jail as a lighting rod for the Feds since he's never getting out? I mean, who wants the job?


I'll buy that theory. Maybe they are content to let Vic keep the boss position from jail. Being a boss is just putting a target on your own back.

Last edited by Fleming_Ave; 06/17/19 06:33 PM.
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