Giacalone, I don't know about the Tupac and Biggie murders, but why are you so 100% sure that the government and the CIA would never traffic drugs? It's not like they were all saints or idealists, especially during the Cold War period. The governments are often dirty and "in bed" with criminal organizations when they have something to gain (not just the USA of course, I mean other countries as well). That's just human society, utopias don't exist unfortunately.
I never said there haven't been agents or people who've been contracted by the CIA who trafficked drugs or were engaged in other illegal activities. Every organization has had corrupt employees or done business with corrupt people, but to suggest that the CIA AS AN INSTITUTION was supervising a drug trafficking operation is baseless. I would love to see the evidence for that, but so far I haven't seen anything. The only thing I've seen are rouge contractors. That doesn't mean the CIA was supervising a drug operation. That is a stretch.
But you had to play it cool, had to do it your way Had to be a fool, had to throw it all away
G, what is your take on the hit on Wallace ? Some rogue LE guys were involved no?
Many people buy into that theory, but I seriously doubt it. I've looked into the backgrounds of David Mack, Rafael Perez and Amir Muhammad. None of these guys had anything to do with Death Row. They were not employed by Wrightway Security as has been suggested by far too many people. So my question is: How are they connected to Death Row and Tupac?
I believe Suge ordered the murder of Biggie, but he didn't use LE for it. They were actually able to get a confession from one of his baby mother's regarding that situation. I will go deeper into this matter later, but my daughter needs me for something lol
But you had to play it cool, had to do it your way Had to be a fool, had to throw it all away
Thanks for your responses G, but you have to admit the LAPD were are crazy bunch.
They were extremely corrupt. The Rampart scandal implicated about 70 officers. What went on with some of those guys was truly shocking. A lot of what was uncovered came from Rafael Perez himself. The man Denzel Washington portrayed in Training Day was based on Perez. You can listen to some of Perez' testimony online actually. Even his voice sounds corrupt. You can just sense evil lol
But you had to play it cool, had to do it your way Had to be a fool, had to throw it all away
The premise that the CIA was involved with the murders of either Tupac or Biggie carries as much weight as the FBI having Joe Colombo killed. Keefe D blew himself up by giving interviews and admitting he passed the gun to Dre Brown who balked and leaned back into the seat as Baby Lane reached over and shot from the right back seat. Keefe D is alleged to have sold bullets from the same box as the ones that killed Tupac. If you ask me, the biggest question is whether it was Poochie or Amir Khan and the LAPD, that killed Biggie for Suge. I don't think it's conclusive either way.
The CIA wasn't involved in either murder, stop. Nobody at a national security level cared that much about either of them. One person who surely was involved in Tupac's was not only Suge Knight from the standpoint of negligence, but Sean Combs. Knight owed more than 104 Million to Death Row artists at the time of Tupac's death, much of it to him. Tupac had threatened on a handful of occasions to not only leave Death Row but to take his catalogue with him, which would've been a major blow to Knight. Knight's wife ran ALL of the security for Death Row with her boyfriend, which allowed on the night of the murder to have very little security in the surrounding cars. All Death Row security was advised on the night of the murder to leave guns at their hotel rooms, and not in vehicles or to be armed at the 622 Club - the club owned by Suge to which they were on their way to. This is corroborated by Frank Alexander, Tupac's primary bodyguard who refused. It also should be noted that Suge Knight himself rarely drove, yet decided to drive on the night of the murder.
Combs had a well known 1 Million Dollar Bounty on Tupac (and Suge). It was basically prime opportunity for Orlando Anderson and Keefe D both well aware of the bounty to attempt to cash in on it. LAPD, while on staff with Knight's wife, was probably not involved in his murder - but VERY much involved in Biggie's murder.
Last edited by irishkaos; 08/05/2311:48 PM.
Re: Suge Knight
[Re: jace]
#1066049 08/06/2305:20 AM08/06/2305:20 AM
Underboss
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 4,608 Underground
Originally Posted by Giacalone
Originally Posted by Dwalin2011
Giacalone, I don't know about the Tupac and Biggie murders, but why are you so 100% sure that the government and the CIA would never traffic drugs? It's not like they were all saints or idealists, especially during the Cold War period. The governments are often dirty and "in bed" with criminal organizations when they have something to gain (not just the USA of course, I mean other countries as well). That's just human society, utopias don't exist unfortunately.
I never said there haven't been agents or people who've been contracted by the CIA who trafficked drugs or were engaged in other illegal activities. Every organization has had corrupt employees or done business with corrupt people, but to suggest that the CIA AS AN INSTITUTION was supervising a drug trafficking operation is baseless. I would love to see the evidence for that, but so far I haven't seen anything. The only thing I've seen are rouge contractors. That doesn't mean the CIA was supervising a drug operation. That is a stretch.
Im not stirring up shit @G but wasnt there one CIA plane that crashed with tons of drugs? I think it occurred 10 or 20 years ago, or maybe way before...I dont remember the dates or whole story, but I remember it was a bad situation for the agency since the news reached almost every country around the world...
If during the 50s and 60s the CIA oversaw the assassination attempts on Castro and other leaders, or the destruction of foreign regimes, followed by arms smuggling and food supply, I really dont see why they wouldnt oversee some particular and quite lucrative narcotics operation...
He who can never endure the bad will never see the good
Re: Suge Knight
[Re: jace]
#1066057 08/06/2308:14 AM08/06/2308:14 AM
The government by and large is a criminal organization itself. Suge Knight had nothing to do with Tupac's murder. He's not smart enough to get away with something like that. Dude isn't even smart enough to lay low and fade into the shadows, and not smart enough to not run people over with his car which is why he's serving 30 years now. Gimme a break.
Re: Suge Knight
[Re: jace]
#1066059 08/06/2310:00 AM08/06/2310:00 AM
Pac forgot he was an entertainer and not a gangster, straight up. Baby Lane was a real deal, hardcore, gangster, and was already under investigation for murder, when he shot and killed Tupac on Vegas. He wasn't about to take the beat down issued at the MGM Grand by Suge and Pac. If he didn't catch up with them in Vegas, it would have been done in LA. MC Eiht puts in perfect perspective in this interview, Tupac was out of his league and paid the price with his life.
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Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 4,608 Underground
Originally Posted by Liggio
The government by and large is a criminal organization itself. Suge Knight had nothing to do with Tupac's murder. He's not smart enough to get away with something like that. Dude isn't even smart enough to lay low and fade into the shadows, and not smart enough to not run people over with his car which is why he's serving 30 years now. Gimme a break.
Suge is one dumb motherfucker because of multiple reasons.
He who can never endure the bad will never see the good
The government by and large is a criminal organization itself. Suge Knight had nothing to do with Tupac's murder. He's not smart enough to get away with something like that. Dude isn't even smart enough to lay low and fade into the shadows, and not smart enough to not run people over with his car which is why he's serving 30 years now. Gimme a break.
Suge is one dumb motherfucker because of multiple reasons.
Underboss
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 4,608 Underground
Originally Posted by Hollander
Originally Posted by Toodoped
Originally Posted by Liggio
The government by and large is a criminal organization itself. Suge Knight had nothing to do with Tupac's murder. He's not smart enough to get away with something like that. Dude isn't even smart enough to lay low and fade into the shadows, and not smart enough to not run people over with his car which is why he's serving 30 years now. Gimme a break.
Suge is one dumb motherfucker because of multiple reasons.
Shot at least three times in 1996, 2005 and 2014.
Acting like a gangster is the dumbest shit you can do (same goes for Pac) because sooner or later youll meet the real guys
He who can never endure the bad will never see the good
Yeah I laugh when people speak on Tupac being some kind of revolutionary or martyr. Did he have a powerful voice? Yes. Was he charismatic? Yes. Did he have some positive songs? Yes. But all that gangster shit he talked especially after hooking up with Death Row and we're supposed to feel bad for him? Yeah right. What I do believe though, is that he was probably feared by the powers that be because he did have a positive voice and could get people behind his influence. Imagine if he matured, broke away from Death Row and started using his voice for good? I can see why he would be feared by certain people out there.
Giacalone, I don't know about the Tupac and Biggie murders, but why are you so 100% sure that the government and the CIA would never traffic drugs? It's not like they were all saints or idealists, especially during the Cold War period. The governments are often dirty and "in bed" with criminal organizations when they have something to gain (not just the USA of course, I mean other countries as well). That's just human society, utopias don't exist unfortunately.
I never said there haven't been agents or people who've been contracted by the CIA who trafficked drugs or were engaged in other illegal activities. Every organization has had corrupt employees or done business with corrupt people, but to suggest that the CIA AS AN INSTITUTION was supervising a drug trafficking operation is baseless. I would love to see the evidence for that, but so far I haven't seen anything. The only thing I've seen are rouge contractors. That doesn't mean the CIA was supervising a drug operation. That is a stretch.
Im not stirring up shit @G but wasnt there one CIA plane that crashed with tons of drugs? I think it occurred 10 or 20 years ago, or maybe way before...I dont remember the dates or whole story, but I remember it was a bad situation for the agency since the news reached almost every country around the world...
If during the 50s and 60s the CIA oversaw the assassination attempts on Castro and other leaders, or the destruction of foreign regimes, followed by arms smuggling and food supply, I really dont see why they wouldnt oversee some particular and quite lucrative narcotics operation..
I get that most organizations that have carried out assassinations or smuggled weapons to allies would not be above dealing in drugs. The problem with the CIA is that they have direct access to the fed. They don't need to sell anything when they can print money. Not to mention, the NIP budget is close to $100 billion every single year. Has the CIA ever sold anything? I have never heard that. Saying they sold drugs is obviously going to sell some newspapers, but did they actively supervise drug operations? I would love to see the evidence for that.
That being said, I am sure that there were people within the CIA who were fully aware of what Barry Seal and some of the Contras were doing. I will tell you a very interesting fact. The U.S. State Department approved funds for humanitarian aid to the Contras after they had been indicted on drug charges by federal law enforcement agencies. Additionally, in other instances, funds were authorized while the Contras were still under active investigation by the same agencies. So they had to have known! And this alone constitutes a major scandal. However, it is essential to clarify that their knowledge of the actions of these rogue contractors does not necessarily imply active participation in supervising drug trafficking. Again, I would love to see the evidence for that.
I don't look at the CIA as some organization that always does the right thing. As we both know, they already have a questionable history. They are however a unique organization. They don't need to rely on capitalism in order to function. Yes, rouge employees will always exist. We are aware of what happened with Louis Eppolito and Stephen Caracappa of the NYPD. Could that happen with the CIA? It's possible, but I'd like to think the vetting process is taken a little more seriously over there.
But you had to play it cool, had to do it your way Had to be a fool, had to throw it all away
Acting like a gangster is the dumbest shit you can do (same goes for Pac) because sooner or later youll meet the real guys
I could not agree more. It is so childish and dumb to me that I don't think I'll ever understand it. Tupac was a phenomenal artist. Had everything, but chose to act like an idiot and decided to punch someone he should have stayed away from.
But you had to play it cool, had to do it your way Had to be a fool, had to throw it all away
I've always enjoyed listening to Chris Carroll, but he admits that he does not know a whole lot about the connection between the South Side Crips and Combs. I am totally with him when it comes to sensationalism. It is distracting and it messes with the truth. Now as sensational as this allegation sounds, there actually may be something to it.
The question I want to know the answer to is: Why hasn't Sean Combs sued LAPD detective Greg Kading (the chief investigator on the Biggie case) for alleging that he put up a million dollars for the murders of Tupac and Suge? That is quite extraordinary. Kading's book Murder Rap did not help Combs' in any way. A lot of people believe Kading and the evidence that he has put forth. Yet, Combs never sued. That is pretty crazy because Combs likes to sue and he even threatened Chuck Phillips of the LA Times when he printed that nonsense story about Biggie and Jimmy Henchmen. Haha he wants to leave Kading's story alone for some reason, even though he is being accused of soliciting the murder of a rap god. It's mind boggling. It only makes sense if he's guilty.
Not to mention, Keefe D had a whole lot to lose if he lied during that proffer session. He was facing life. Yes, he does have massive credibility issues and that is what may get him off if he ever gets indicted.
But you had to play it cool, had to do it your way Had to be a fool, had to throw it all away
If I'm correct, he "checked in" to protective custody. Big difference bopping around on the outside with bodyguards vs civilians; alternatively, prison filled with gangsters looking to shake him down.
If I'm correct, he "checked in" to protective custody. Big difference bopping around on the outside with bodyguards vs civilians; alternatively, prison filled with gangsters looking to shake him down.
Suge is always PC'd up. He's got a lot of problems on the street and he's got problems because of his history of dealing with law enforcement. There are so many things people aren't even aware of because the media never reported on them.
But you had to play it cool, had to do it your way Had to be a fool, had to throw it all away
Re: Suge Knight
[Re: jace]
#1066183 08/08/2301:53 AM08/08/2301:53 AM
Underboss
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 4,608 Underground
Originally Posted by Giacalone
Originally Posted by Toodoped
Acting like a gangster is the dumbest shit you can do (same goes for Pac) because sooner or later youll meet the real guys
I could not agree more. It is so childish and dumb to me that I don't think I'll ever understand it. Tupac was a phenomenal artist. Had everything, but chose to act like an idiot and decided to punch someone he should have stayed away from.
Stupidly wasted talent.
He who can never endure the bad will never see the good
Detective Tim Brennan of the Compton Police Department filed an affidavit naming Anderson as a suspect; he denied involvement and was never charged. Anderson was shot and killed in an unrelated gang shootout at the age of 23 in 1998.
Detective Tim Brennan of the Compton Police Department filed an affidavit naming Anderson as a suspect; he denied involvement and was never charged. Anderson was shot and killed in an unrelated gang shootout at the age of 23 in 1998.
You're welcome H. Tim was a bit of a legend in Compton because of DJ Quik's 1987 underground tapes where Quik calls Tim 'Blondie' in one of them. That name stuck.
Tim arrested almost every criminal in Compton. Among the people he arrested were Eazy-E and his son Lil Eazy, Keefe D, Orlando Anderson and BG Knocc Out. There's a Vlad interview out there somewhere where BG Knocc Out is asked about his run-ins with Tim, and BG said something like 'Blondie knows all of us on a first name basis' lol
But you had to play it cool, had to do it your way Had to be a fool, had to throw it all away
There's a bunch of cops working this story for every dollar it's worth. LVPD Chris Carroll, who was the first responder at Tupac's shooting in Vegas, LAPD Detective Greg Kading who took over Russell Poole's investigation into Biggie's murder, and LA FBI agent Phil Carson. Kading and Carson have different scenarios for Biggie's murder, Carson more in alignment with Russell Poole's original theory of corrupt LAPD members from the Rampart division than Kading's theory of Poochie Fouse being the hitman. The best current sources are the Compton Cops, Reggie Wright Sr., Fred Reynolds and Brennan's partner Robert Ladd, between the three of them, they knew everyone from Ray Washington and Tookie to Monster Kody Scott. Reggie Wright Sr. was the first responder on Baby Lane's murder/shootout and actually tried to get him to confess to shooting Tupac.
