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What's happening in Italian LCN in LA? #951007
08/22/18 10:39 AM
08/22/18 10:39 AM
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night_timer Offline OP
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So, we all know about the LCN influence in NYC and Las Vegas, but what was the overall level of power of LCN in LA?

And how does the LCN influence compare today in NYC, after Giuliani?

Was the LCN screwed even before Giuliani - and after 911 - gave rise to greater police powers on every street corner?

(Not wanting to say no to police vigilance on the streets of NYC, just asking a question.... )

Last edited by night_timer; 08/22/18 10:41 AM.

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Re: What's happening in Italian LCN in LA? [Re: night_timer] #951009
08/22/18 11:11 AM
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As far as I know there's next to no Mob activity in LA.

Re: What's happening in Italian LCN in LA? [Re: night_timer] #951014
08/22/18 11:58 AM
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The LA family was disbanded in the 1980s due the fact that there are no italian communities in LA.For sure some NY wiseguy like James Isgro of gambino or dominick montemarano of colombos made some $$$ but the gangs rules on LA.

Re: What's happening in Italian LCN in LA? [Re: furio_from_naples] #951027
08/22/18 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by furio_from_naples
The LA family was disbanded in the 1980s due the fact that there are no italian communities in LA.


i'm sure that's had nothing do with it. I know places were Mafia cell exist with not more than 50 Italians. Well in California live 1,500,000 so more than enough. OC don't need closed neighborhood or areas. So i don't know why LCN not exist anymore. Los Angels always had a different underworld.

Maybe it had do with Sociocultural /Suburban phenomenons.

But another problem what we really know about organzed crime in LA ? In fact not much.

Last edited by Nitro; 08/22/18 02:27 PM.
Re: What's happening in Italian LCN in LA? [Re: Nitro] #951028
08/22/18 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Nitro
Originally Posted by furio_from_naples
The LA family was disbanded in the 1980s due the fact that there are no italian communities in LA.


i'm sure that's had nothing do with it. I know places were Mafia cell exist with not more than 50 Italians. Well in California live 1,500,000 so more than enough. OC don't need closed neighborhood or areas. So i don't know why LCN not exist anymore. Los Angels always had a different underworld.

Maybe it had do with Sociocultural /Suburban phenomenons.

But another problem what we really know about organzed crime in LA ? In fact not much.

True.
who knows maybe there is ‏some mob activity which we didn't heard off

Last edited by MeyerLansky; 08/22/18 02:32 PM.
Re: What's happening in Italian LCN in LA? [Re: night_timer] #951038
08/22/18 04:03 PM
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I think it's been stated on other threads that while certain members of the LA family are still alive , the family itself has been defunct for quite some time , much like the Pittsburgh family . Some of said members may be engaged in criminal activity , but it's probably low level and definitely doesn't make the news .

I think I've read somewhere that the son of Lenny Montana was/is a member of the LA family and that he owns/owned a pizza parlor in the LA area by the way .

Re: What's happening in Italian LCN in LA? [Re: Nitro] #951043
08/22/18 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Nitro
Originally Posted by furio_from_naples
The LA family was disbanded in the 1980s due the fact that there are no italian communities in LA.


i'm sure that's had nothing do with it. I know places were Mafia cell exist with not more than 50 Italians. Well in California live 1,500,000 so more than enough. OC don't need closed neighborhood or areas. So i don't know why LCN not exist anymore. Los Angels always had a different underworld.

Maybe it had do with Sociocultural /Suburban phenomenons.

But another problem what we really know about organzed crime in LA ? In fact not much.


Most of the families not on the East Coast were small time and died out due to multille factors, mostly because of how the Italians weren’t really close knit after a few generations after immigrating. In NYC, you not only have the neighborhoods but people didn’t really inter-marry between other groups as much, so you’re far more likely to have someone who is 50 or 100% Italian even though they’re fourth or fifth generation.

People in the rest of the country, like Los Angeles, Louisiana, or here in Texas tended to inter-marry a lot more. They also moved to different areas and even though they’re Italian, it’s in name only. Most of them are basically completely whitebread WASPs and don’t really have any concept of the old country, other than the Olive Garden and what they see on TV.

Last edited by Stubbs; 08/22/18 04:33 PM.

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Re: What's happening in Italian LCN in LA? [Re: night_timer] #951044
08/22/18 04:37 PM
08/22/18 04:37 PM
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Israeli oc do have connections over there.


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Re: What's happening in Italian LCN in LA? [Re: night_timer] #951046
08/22/18 04:43 PM
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There is definitely some truth to what Nitro says; there just isn't really much known about organized crime in California in general. We know about the gang landscape over there. There's the African American street gangs and prison gangs (Bloods, Crips, BGF...), Mexican prison gangs and street gangs (La Eme, Nuestra Familia...), prison gangs and outlaw motorcycle gangs for good ole boy white criminals (Aryan Brotherhood, Hells Angels...). There's some Triad gang activity in the Chinatowns. There has been a Yakuza presence in the Japanese communities, a Korean gang presence in the Korean communities and a Vietnamese gang presence in the Vietnamese communities. There's documented Israeli mob activity in LA as well as Chaldean mob activity in San Diego. Eastern European OC is mostly confined to Armenian gang activity in the Armenian communities of LA.

That's it basically. I don't any other Southeast Asian or Polynesian gang can make a claim for the "organized crime" title. And even then remains the question if you consider prison gang, outlaw motorcycle gang as well as smaller ethnic mob activity organized crime the same way and on the same level you consider the American Mafia on the East Coast to be organized crime.

Re: What's happening in Italian LCN in LA? [Re: night_timer] #951053
08/22/18 06:48 PM
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Dead as a doornail I'd imagine.

There was never a big family there in the first place. Other familes would do business in LA without involving them or asking permission.

Re: What's happening in Italian LCN in LA? [Re: sbhc] #951068
08/22/18 09:31 PM
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Originally Posted by sbhc
Dead as a doornail I'd imagine.

There was never a big family there in the first place. Other familes would do business in LA without involving them or asking permission.


Yep, according to Michael Franzese you never had to check in with anyone when you went to Los Angeles, the way you had to do in cities like Philly, Miami and even Cleveland. He said that within LCN they weren't taken seriously at all, they called them the Micky Mouse Mafia..

Last edited by BillyBrizzi; 08/22/18 09:32 PM.

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Re: What's happening in Italian LCN in LA? [Re: night_timer] #951083
08/23/18 01:19 AM
08/23/18 01:19 AM
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In Fratiano's book and interviews
Originally Posted by night_timer
So, we all know about the LCN influence in NYC and Las Vegas, but what was the overall level of power of LCN in LA?

And how does the LCN influence compare today in NYC, after Giuliani?

Was the LCN screwed even before Giuliani - and after 911 - gave rise to greater police powers on every street corner?

(Not wanting to say no to police vigilance on the streets of NYC, just asking a question.... )



They were in trouble way before Giuliani. I think LA is dead and New York is still active, but with low quality members compared to the older generation, I have to read Frattiano's book and see what he says about the state of LA when he was in it.

Re: What's happening in Italian LCN in LA? [Re: furio_from_naples] #951091
08/23/18 05:11 AM
08/23/18 05:11 AM
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Originally Posted by furio_from_naples
The LA family was disbanded in the 1980s due the fact that there are no italian communities in LA.For sure some NY wiseguy like James Isgro of gambino or dominick montemarano of colombos made some $$$ but the gangs rules on LA.


Spot on. Kenny Gallo worked with the LA mob in the early-to-mid 1990s but pretty much described it as nothing more than old remnants of a bygone era. I'd say that there was pretty much nothing left in any structural capacity by the turn of the century.

Re: What's happening in Italian LCN in LA? [Re: BillyBrizzi] #951093
08/23/18 05:55 AM
08/23/18 05:55 AM
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Originally Posted by BillyBrizzi
Originally Posted by sbhc
Dead as a doornail I'd imagine.

There was never a big family there in the first place. Other familes would do business in LA without involving them or asking permission.


Yep, according to Michael Franzese you never had to check in with anyone when you went to Los Angeles, the way you had to do in cities like Philly, Miami and even Cleveland. He said that within LCN they weren't taken seriously at all, they called them the Micky Mouse Mafia..


Yes,the Dragna family was called the Mickey Mouse Mafia and at it peak in the 1950s had 50 or few more made men some of them come from the east coast families.
The Dragna men was so weak that Mickey Cohen was the real boss of LA;and was so less respected that Joe Bonanno tried to made his son Bill as LA family boss.

In California there was italian communities that was more integrated and so the mob family in L.A.,San Francisco and San Jose was small and ehen the old wiseguy died there was nobody for replace them.

Re: What's happening in Italian LCN in LA? [Re: night_timer] #951106
08/23/18 12:16 PM
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another reason is that most of italian immigrants in california came from northern regions

Re: What's happening in Italian LCN in LA? [Re: Nitro] #951114
08/23/18 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Nitro
I know places were Mafia cell exist with not more than 50 Italians. Well in California live 1,500,000 so more than enough.


There are no Italian communities in California. Some older people think there are, and try to preserve their once Italian dominated areas by having clubs and organizing events or dinners with like 50 or so people. But as far as the type of Italian neighborhoods you have on the east coast? The Latino neighborhoods in California probably have more of a resemblance, just by way of large families, working class, devout Catholicism, and similarities between the Spanish and Italian languages. I grew up with a lot of Italians who blended in with Chicano culture. Most of the traditional Italian neighborhoods in CA are now Latino, or gentrified. North Beach in SF, the old Lanza turf, is a total rich area now. All that's left of its Italian past is the lamp posts painted in the Italian flag colors, and a few pizzerias along Columbus. It's Italian like the Pirates of the Caribbean at Disneyland are real pirates.


"...the successful annihilation of organized crime's subculture in America would rock the 'legitimate' world's foundation, which would ultimately force fundamental social changes and redistributions of wealth and power in this country. Meyer Lansky's dream was to bond the two worlds together so that one could not survive without the other." - Dan E. Moldea
Re: What's happening in Italian LCN in LA? [Re: sbhc] #951115
08/23/18 03:13 PM
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Originally Posted by sbhc
There was never a big family there in the first place. Other familes would do business in LA without involving them or asking permission.


The early 1930s was probably the peak of Jack Dragna's control over LA. Dragna was given a Commission seat. John Roselli took him to NY and vouched for him and his family to be recognized. But yeah, once Siegel moved west, New York clearly disregarded Dragna and gave Siegel the run of the place.

After Siegel died, Tommy Lucchese, who was Dragna's in-law, backed Dragna over Mickey Cohen. This is probably why so many Italians in Cohen's crew started switching to the Dragnas. The writing was on the wall. Cohen was one tenacious bastard, though. He took over all of Siegel's gambling rackets, didn't give the Dragnas a dime, and survived several attempts on his life.

Frattiano made the Dragna family seem like Murder Inc. in his book. Despite his proclamations of LA's power during his time, there just isn't a lot of court records or testimony from other turncoats to back it up. I don't believe his stories about pushing Moe Sedway around or Siegel speaking with him as equals for one second. Other than keeping up appearances with Dragna, Siegel wouldn't have wasted one second with Italians west of Chicago.

When the Milanos of Cleveland took over LA in the 80s they were still making some moves. A lot of guys in the LA family at that time were former Vegas guys who retreated to SoCal after the corporations bought the old Teamster casinos, and just about reaching retirement age. That was probably the last hurrah of the LA family. As others have said, New York guys operate in LA on their own now.


"...the successful annihilation of organized crime's subculture in America would rock the 'legitimate' world's foundation, which would ultimately force fundamental social changes and redistributions of wealth and power in this country. Meyer Lansky's dream was to bond the two worlds together so that one could not survive without the other." - Dan E. Moldea
Re: What's happening in Italian LCN in LA? [Re: night_timer] #951118
08/23/18 03:43 PM
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Who are some of the new york guys that operate there? The only one I know of is Dominick Montemarano who has already been mentioned.

Re: What's happening in Italian LCN in LA? [Re: OakAsFan] #951123
08/23/18 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted by OakAsFan
Originally Posted by Nitro
I know places were Mafia cell exist with not more than 50 Italians. Well in California live 1,500,000 so more than enough.


There are no Italian communities in California.



Dragna/Milano's structure are gone thats obviously. "
"There are no Italian communities " does not explain why they stop recruited new members. Again the mafia don't need communities. It's a simplification to think mafia only existed in italian neighberhood.

So may guess is young criminals don't need a fix structure to make money. Culturel mixed groups are more powerfull. But again we don't know much about OC in Cali.

Re: What's happening in Italian LCN in LA? [Re: night_timer] #951125
08/23/18 04:07 PM
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Joe Isgro, Tommy Gambino (the one related to Cali, not Carlo's son).


"...the successful annihilation of organized crime's subculture in America would rock the 'legitimate' world's foundation, which would ultimately force fundamental social changes and redistributions of wealth and power in this country. Meyer Lansky's dream was to bond the two worlds together so that one could not survive without the other." - Dan E. Moldea
Re: What's happening in Italian LCN in LA? [Re: OakAsFan] #951130
08/23/18 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by OakAsFan
Joe Isgro, Tommy Gambino (the one related to Cali, not Carlo's son).


If there´s an active crew it answers to the Gambinos.


"The king is dead, long live the king!"
Re: What's happening in Italian LCN in LA? [Re: m2w] #951131
08/23/18 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by m2w
another reason is that most of italian immigrants in california came from northern regions


This I believe.

Southern Italians in California have more in common with Latinos than they do with the bourgeois Italians that claim a generational identity to the region.


"...the successful annihilation of organized crime's subculture in America would rock the 'legitimate' world's foundation, which would ultimately force fundamental social changes and redistributions of wealth and power in this country. Meyer Lansky's dream was to bond the two worlds together so that one could not survive without the other." - Dan E. Moldea
Re: What's happening in Italian LCN in LA? [Re: Nitro] #951132
08/23/18 05:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Nitro
Originally Posted by OakAsFan
Originally Posted by Nitro
I know places were Mafia cell exist with not more than 50 Italians. Well in California live 1,500,000 so more than enough.


There are no Italian communities in California.



Dragna/Milano's structure are gone thats obviously. "
"There are no Italian communities " does not explain why they stop recruited new members. Again the mafia don't need communities. It's a simplification to think mafia only existed in italian neighberhood.

So may guess is young criminals don't need a fix structure to make money. Culturel mixed groups are more powerfull. But again we don't know much about OC in Cali.


Give me a Mafia family that operated in areas with no Italian communities or presence.

Last edited by NickyfromTampa; 08/23/18 05:25 PM.
Re: What's happening in Italian LCN in LA? [Re: night_timer] #951133
08/23/18 05:31 PM
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There’s a lot of stuff going on right now with the Mexican Mafia, but there’s no real Italian/LCN organization crime here like the East Coast.

Re: What's happening in Italian LCN in LA? [Re: night_timer] #951136
08/23/18 06:29 PM
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So Cal, where you been hiding?

Update one of the EME threads and let us know what's going on.


"...the successful annihilation of organized crime's subculture in America would rock the 'legitimate' world's foundation, which would ultimately force fundamental social changes and redistributions of wealth and power in this country. Meyer Lansky's dream was to bond the two worlds together so that one could not survive without the other." - Dan E. Moldea
Re: What's happening in Italian LCN in LA? [Re: night_timer] #951139
08/23/18 09:04 PM
08/23/18 09:04 PM
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I’m still around and reading the forum. Some of the news stories I’ve been following have been already been posted by Ciment in that Mexican Cartel thread, but those news updates should be posted under a separate thread since the Mexican Mafia isn’t part of the Mexican Drug cartels.

Last edited by SoCalGangs; 08/23/18 09:05 PM.
Re: What's happening in Italian LCN in LA? [Re: NickyfromTampa] #951157
08/24/18 06:27 AM
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Originally Posted by NickyfromTampa
Originally Posted by Nitro
Originally Posted by OakAsFan
Originally Posted by Nitro
I know places were Mafia cell exist with not more than 50 Italians. Well in California live 1,500,000 so more than enough.


There are no Italian communities in California.



Dragna/Milano's structure are gone thats obviously. "
"There are no Italian communities " does not explain why they stop recruited new members. Again the mafia don't need communities. It's a simplification to think mafia only existed in italian neighberhood.

So may guess is young criminals don't need a fix structure to make money. Culturel mixed groups are more powerfull. But again we don't know much about OC in Cali.


Give me a Mafia family that operated in areas with no Italian communities or presence.


I speak about communities places like "Little Italy". Not about presence. Of course you need italians for mafia activity.

Las Vegas from the beginning...

Gambling operartion in 60's,70's,80's was much bigger as traditional "communities". (Dixie, Midwest) ...Cuba, Bahmas, link to European groups. )

Ndrangheta - Frauenfels, Thurgau CH. Maybe only 5 % .... (I believe Cali ~7 or 8 %)

Cosa Nostra / Ndrangheta activity in Allgäu, Germany they are villages. Sometimes you have only a pizzeria. One or two italian families.

East Germany cities like Erfurt. There never exist a closed neighborhood but a strong mafia activity.

CN activity in Africa.

Wholesale drug trading had nothing to do with communities. Nightclub / Redlight activiets had mostly nothing to do with. White Dollar crime ...

another example we know a lot examples for isreali OC networks in Cali. But only 0,1 % Cali population are Isreali-American.

Last edited by Nitro; 08/24/18 06:32 AM.
Re: What's happening in Italian LCN in LA? [Re: night_timer] #951158
08/24/18 06:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Nitro


I speak about communities places like "Little Italy". Not about presence. Of course you need italians for mafia activity.

Las Vegas from the beginning...

Gambling operartion in 60's,70's,80's was much bigger as traditional "communities". (Dixie, Midwest) ...Cuba, Bahmas, link to European groups. )

Ndrangheta - Frauenfels, Thurgau CH. Maybe only 5 % .... (I believe Cali ~7 or 8 %)

Cosa Nostra / Ndrangheta activity in Allgäu, Germany they are villages. Sometimes you have only a pizzeria. One or two italian families.

East Germany cities like Erfurt. There never exist a closed neighborhood but a strong mafia activity.

CN activity in Africa.

Wholesale drug trading had nothing to do with communities. Nightclub / Redlight activiets had mostly nothing to do with. White Dollar crime ...

another example we know a lot examples for isreali OC networks in Cali. But only 0,1 % Cali population are Isreali-American.


My point is about whether a Mafia family could viably exist and sustain itself in an area with little to no Italian communities. An American Mafia family, to be specific, since groups in Italy are a whole different discussion entirely. I'm not talking about the mob having influence in Vegas or pre-Castro Cuba, since we all no there was no "Las Vegas crime family" or "Cuba crime family."

Re: What's happening in Italian LCN in LA? [Re: night_timer] #951159
08/24/18 07:04 AM
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It's kinda like Stubbs said. There are probably lots of people in California carrying an Italian surname that can actually trace the bigger part of their ancestry back to Oklahoma, Arkansas or Texas than to any of the Italian regions. The concept of the Mob isn't something that speaks to them. The ones that got criminal tendencies are much more likely to join some outlaw motorcycle gang.

Re: What's happening in Italian LCN in LA? [Re: night_timer] #951162
08/24/18 07:15 AM
08/24/18 07:15 AM
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https://www.laweekly.com/restaurant...the-patriarch-of-eastside-market-2382445

Why Doesn't Los Angeles Have a Little Italy?

Actually, Los Angeles did have a Little Italy for over a century. It started in the 1800's on Olvera Street and North Main, when Los Angeles was a Mexican puebla. By the turn of the 20th century, Los Angeles's Little Italy had expanded into present-day Chinatown and eventually to Lincoln Heights and the foothills of Elysian Park. Johnny Angiuli, owner of Eastside Market Italian Deli, can wax nostalgic for hours about the hillside neighborhood, just above Chinatown where his deli is located, that was still a thriving Italian enclave when he immigrated here in 1956 from Adelphia, Italy, at the age of twelve.

The market portion of Eastside Market is long gone. As upwardly mobile Italians moved out of Little Italy, the demand for Italian and Mediterranean produce waned. By the time Johnny Angiuli purchased the market in 1974 from Sam Pontrelli and George Laricchia, after having worked there for fifteen years, he knew times were changing. He converted the market section of the store into a dining room and introduced hot foods to the deli.

Angiuli has seen the neighborhood turnover many times from good to bad to good again. The 1970s, in particular, was a lean decade, when the neighborhood was at a crossroads with an ever-diminishing and aging Italian population and influxes of decidedly non-Mediterranean residents.

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