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Re: Most Underrated/Overrated Bosses [Re: kingoflittlenewyork] #950214
08/15/18 08:58 AM
08/15/18 08:58 AM
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 1,710
BillyBrizzi Offline
Underboss
BillyBrizzi  Offline
Underboss
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 1,710
Originally Posted by kingoflittlenewyork
Most over hyped/rated boss EVER is Lucky by far. 4-5 years on the street as boss. Credited for Maranzano:s creation.


BLASPHEMY!!! If it was up to me your ass would be banned for LIFE wink

All kidding aside, while I agree with you that one of the most persistent errors in the history about the mafia is that Lucky created the structure, it's crazy that this gets repeated over and over in almost all books about the history of the mob.. That being said, apart from this it was Lucky Luciano that implemented the business like approach for the Cosa Nostra, a mirror image of capitalism and I'm convinced that this was the reason why it became this formidable organization that dominated organized crime in the US and parts of Canada for over 50 years..


FORTIS FORTUNA IUVAT
Re: Most Underrated/Overrated Bosses [Re: BillyBrizzi] #950225
08/15/18 10:43 AM
08/15/18 10:43 AM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 806
Friend_of_Henry Offline
Underboss
Friend_of_Henry  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 806
Originally Posted by BillyBrizzi
Originally Posted by Friend_of_Henry
Originally Posted by F_white
Overrated John Gotti /Charles "Lucky" Luciano

Underrated John LaRocca


Totally agree - Always good to see another interested in Pittsburgh.
John was laid back and "It was only business" all the time.


Did you also know John LaRocca personally FoH? I knew you knew Michael Genovese very good, but didn't know about LaRocca.

And I agree that this man was a very underrated boss: he had a very long tenure, made a lot of money in Cuba with the elite of the elite in mob land and most importantly he died in his own bed of natural causes. But when I think of it, so did his successor Michael Genovese and to be honest it's actually way more impressive in his case because he managed to avoid jail in the post-RICO era, as one of the only bosses in the 80's and 90's. Plus, he supposedly oversaw the most lucrative period in the Pittsburgh family's history, with huge amounts of money made by drug dealing that had the blessing of Genovese allegedly..

If I stated some incorrect facts, don't be afraid to school my ignorant Dutch ass pal grin


As usual, you're right on point.

I only met John once with Henry and had the pleasure of shaking his hand. Nothing like the relationship I had with Michael.


"Never walk in a room that you don't know how to get out of"- Henry Zottola
Re: Most Underrated/Overrated Bosses [Re: BillyBrizzi] #950231
08/15/18 12:50 PM
08/15/18 12:50 PM
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 252
K
kingoflittlenewyork Offline
Capo
kingoflittlenewyork  Offline
K
Capo
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 252
Originally Posted by BillyBrizzi
Originally Posted by kingoflittlenewyork
Most over hyped/rated boss EVER is Lucky by far. 4-5 years on the street as boss. Credited for Maranzano:s creation.


BLASPHEMY!!! If it was up to me your ass would be banned for LIFE wink

All kidding aside, while I agree with you that one of the most persistent errors in the history about the mafia is that Lucky created the structure, it's crazy that this gets repeated over and over in almost all books about the history of the mob.. That being said, apart from this it was Lucky Luciano that implemented the business like approach for the Cosa Nostra, a mirror image of capitalism and I'm convinced that this was the reason why it became this formidable organization that dominated organized crime in the US and parts of Canada for over 50 years..

And what proof do you have of this? Other than the fact it's been repeat over and over....

Re: Most Underrated/Overrated Bosses [Re: kingoflittlenewyork] #950234
08/15/18 01:39 PM
08/15/18 01:39 PM
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 1,710
BillyBrizzi Offline
Underboss
BillyBrizzi  Offline
Underboss
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 1,710
Originally Posted by ]kingoflittlenewyork

And what proof do you have of this? Other than the fact it's been repeat over and over....


What do you mean? I agreed with your statement that Luciano wasn't responsible for the modern structure of CN, but rather Maranzano..

If you're talking about what proof I have for the assertion that Luciano implemented a businesslike approach for Cosa Nostra, a mirror image of capitalism. This was confirmed by the majority of mafia experts like Selwyn Raab, Jerry Capeci and Ovid DeMaris. The man got rid of the Capi dei Capi title and created a power sharing institution called The Commission. Now I now that some kind of Roundtable similar to it existed in one form or another years before, called the General Assembly, but it was very ineffectual and was always subservient to Capo dei Capi like Morello, d'Aquila and Masseria.

Luciano also put making money first and traditions and prejudices second. Old school Sicilians didn't like or even flat out refused to work with Jews like Meyer Lansky, Ben Siegel and Lepke Buchhalter. Luciano also got rid of this kind of backwards thinking. I don't care if you don't believe me, because if you can't be convinced by a man like Selwyn Raab about the genius of Salvatore ''Charlie Lucky Luciano'' Lucania, no one will..


FORTIS FORTUNA IUVAT
Re: Most Underrated/Overrated Bosses [Re: jace] #950245
08/15/18 02:45 PM
08/15/18 02:45 PM
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,627
DiLorenzo Offline
Underboss
DiLorenzo  Offline
Underboss
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,627
Originally Posted by jace
I still see Gotti being called overrated, but I have never seen anyone on a site or in a book or article say he was a great boss.


Media hyped !!

Re: Most Underrated/Overrated Bosses [Re: The_Marble_Guy] #950247
08/15/18 03:00 PM
08/15/18 03:00 PM
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 252
K
kingoflittlenewyork Offline
Capo
kingoflittlenewyork  Offline
K
Capo
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 252
Raab had no new sources for the 5 Families book, simply old news articles. A repeat of old information.

Re: Most Underrated/Overrated Bosses [Re: kingoflittlenewyork] #950250
08/15/18 03:26 PM
08/15/18 03:26 PM
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 1,710
BillyBrizzi Offline
Underboss
BillyBrizzi  Offline
Underboss
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 1,710
Originally Posted by kingoflittlenewyork
Raab had no new sources for the 5 Families book, simply old news articles. A repeat of old information.


Everybody is entitled to their own opinion.


FORTIS FORTUNA IUVAT
Re: Most Underrated/Overrated Bosses [Re: kingoflittlenewyork] #950252
08/15/18 03:45 PM
08/15/18 03:45 PM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 498
Texas
TonyG Offline
Capo
TonyG  Offline
Capo
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 498
Texas
Originally Posted by kingoflittlenewyork
Raab had no new sources for the 5 Families book, simply old news articles. A repeat of old information.


New sources? Who is still alive from the Luciano era? Joe Bonanno's book described how Luciano changed things after Maranzano. Valachi testified to it, although he was fed info by the Feds. There are so many sources I am surprised this is in debate. Moving from a dictatorship (i.e. boss of bosses) to a congress (i.e. commission) was a solid move in my opinion. To each their own I suppose.

Selwyn Raab wrote many of the "old" news articles that were memorialized in 5 Families. One of my favorite LCN reporters.


Best way to catch the smart ones? Get an idiot working for them.
Re: Most Underrated/Overrated Bosses [Re: TonyG] #950262
08/15/18 04:31 PM
08/15/18 04:31 PM
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 252
K
kingoflittlenewyork Offline
Capo
kingoflittlenewyork  Offline
K
Capo
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 252
Originally Posted by TonyG
Originally Posted by kingoflittlenewyork
Raab had no new sources for the 5 Families book, simply old news articles. A repeat of old information.


New sources? Who is still alive from the Luciano era?

My point exactly.

Lucky is what got me into oc along with Capone. The more and more I've truly learned about him the more of a fairy tale I believe him to be.

I'm not saying it didn't happen that way only that we will never truly know.

These things that have been stated as facts year after year about him kill me. And then each one of us choose to believe what is true and what's not.

I just think it was more of a team effort than one man.

Sorry if I detailed fellas.

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