I feel like these guys looked around and saw that their people were being treated like shit, and they made a choice - they could either get fucked, like the good citizens who were paying protection money, or they could do the fucking and make money. I think in that is a certain amount of admirability. They didn't want to assimilate, lose their culture, be America's bitch or be the bitch of guys worse than them. They saw what they wanted and took it. Did they eventually become just as bad or worse than the guys who terrorized their civilian fathers and grandfathers? Yes, to a degree. But in the context of that time - the 1930s, 1940s, 1950s - when Italians were basically considered just barely above Blacks on the social totem pole - they did what they had to do. Those were the real gangsters.

I feel ya Jackie, there weren't any chances for poor Italian kids, growing up in the ghettos of the early 1900's.

If I have to name 3 wiseguys, who could've been extremely successful as a professional in a legitimate field, like a lawyer, politician or business executive if they were born in a middle class Italian family in the 80's or 90's for example, when they would've had the chance to go to college and or university.

Those 3 men are: Frank Costello, Johnny Torrio and Carmine Lombardozzi.

Frank even had the looks. He could've been a CEO like Lee Iaoccoa or something or a movie exec. He was a businessman's mobster. Torrio too. Even Carlo to a certain degree. And Lucky Luciano would've been a CEO of a megacorp in today's world..

Are you referring to the Mustache Petes, or the Young Turks who formed the mob as we know it?

The founder of the modern day mob, Lucky Luciano, couldn't care less about his culture. His culture was money. The old school Sicilians didn't like it, and he rolled them.

I admire how they were able to set up such a sophisticated organization. I know law enforcement wasn't on them as much as it is now, but it's still an impressive feat.

A lot of Italian immigrants worked hard and didn't want that lifestyle for their children.

Sammy Gravano's father couldn't stop him going down that path, though.

There was nothing stopping these guys from making an honest living.

They just wanted an easy fix. They looked at guys who worked blue collar jobs as saps, and potential marks.

And they wreaked havoc on their enclaves with extortion rackets, protection rackets, union infiltration, predatory lending etc.

Michael Scotto was pretty intelligent. He went to college. His daughter is a news anchor.

Having pics of J. Edgar Hoover in pink teddies bought them a decade or so.

You forgot Tony Accardo.

We shouldnt admire ANY mafia member. I mean when my great grandfather came here from italy he had to live with like 13 other guys in a small apartment and they were harassed by the mafia even though they made little money. I think people like too romanticize these guys too much

They had almost no opportunities, ant hat includes Jewish, Irish, and even American born gangsters. I get sick of popped saying that some made it honestly. Few could make it honestly, and they and their children often suffered. Evictions were common for people who were honest but missed a month of rent. I can admire to a slight point a gangster from the 1920's with some exceptions. Those who came along in prosperous times are a different story.

You keep saying they are romanticized, but by who? I don't see why Mafia members would try to extort those 13 poor people who you claim lived together in a small apartment. I think you were handed a fake or embellished story.

EVERYONE lived in the "ghetto" back then. there was no suburbs yet.... hence why you see many ethnic gangs at this time.

Yeah. I've never heard of mobsters extorting their fellow countrymen who worked for a living, or operating protection rackets for businesses owned by their fellow countrymen, or selling drugs in their communities.

It's not exactly a hot take. JCrusher isn't the kind to embellish.

Thats a myth that these guys if they wernt criminals would of been CEOs.If they tried to be CEOs they would be competing with other educated and smart men from around the country.Luciano was a thug who rothstein helped get political connections thats it and from there he was able to launch the modern LCN

first off ive never embellished a damn thing on this board in 8 years. Secondly i ever said they were extorted....you jumped the gun and misunderstood what i was saying

You said harassed, so I assumed extortion.

I don't admire them, but I kind of understand. Well only the first ones in the 19th century. But in later times when jobs and education were more available there was not much excuse for it. Even the ones who didn't have a lot of other choices were doing more harm then good.

This

There is nothing to admire, they live a pretty shitty life even tough some of them gain a lot of money and some bonuses in their life from it. A lot of them just didn't see another way in life than turning to crime so they followed it up. It doesn't matter if it's just the Italian mobsters or gang members nowdays. Running a life of crime has it's costs and it's big. Just think of how many of them got killed, because of some mistake they made or because someone just decided to take over. How many of them got snitched out to the authorities and are now doing time for rest of their lives. Then on the other side it's the stress of it all combined, if you'll do everything right or will you get killed tomorrow. I don't wonder why they all got cancer, stress just kills you..