How do we really know youre the boss of Buffalo? You could just be saying that

You can be sure that I am just saying that

Buffalo is still active.

Do you mind if I consider you the boss?

lol thats Bifulco with the beard

The new boss is wearing the 25 jersey. He's transferring over from Brentwood.

i was recently inducted i took over the western mass operation im not surposed to tell anyone. shuuu

Brentwood Crip for sure, for life. His nickname here is the Sponge

The Cohen bust involved the Lucchese family. Brian Cohen was on record with the Ben "Sonny" Nicoletti Jr. Sonny was making a lot of money and it was the partnership with Lucchese that made it happen in PR, with Brian overseeing the operation.

CR not PR Giacomo

I am new here however, if LE the press and.indixtements are acceptable
Don't we have all of that with Buffalo now?
Since the arrest
?

Ofcourse, its already proven.

In the indictment itself if they are being charged as LIN
Which I believe they are the verbiage is the same:
You have a boss, ub, etc. Down the line.

Aren't the guys from Buffalo charged as LCN?
Wouldn't that mean that the FBI is operating under that assumption?

Or does the indictment refer to them as a defunct family?

Yes. I havent seen the whole indictment and not sure if it even names all the ones charged or co conspirators not charged. But a few of the articles say "partnership in Buffalo" and/or "Buffalo" so...

Does anyone have the full indictment that lists everyone they can post I cant find one

Was the last time the FBI mentioned Buffalo in 2006?

The Justice Department's official statement says: "In a coordinated operation, Canadian law enforcement authorities today arrested nine organized crime members and associates in Canada, including members of the Todaro organized crime family, who are charged with, among other crimes, narcotics trafficking."


No U.S. members of the "Todaro organized crime family" were arrested. Also, we don't know the names of the Canadian Todaro guys arrested.

This doesn't make the Todaro crime family an active family. There are many members still alive from defunct families. LA Family, Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Bufalino, Trafficante, etc. all have made guys that are still alive and hey, those guys are probably still criminals if they're not retired.
We have seen in the past that decades after a family goes extinct, often remnants from the family continue to be involved in organized crime. Such is the case which remnants of the Trafficante family (who began working with Gambino guys), the KC family and the New Orleans family.

Also, since the U.S. wing of the Buffalo family was subject to a lot more law enforcement pressure than their friends over the border, it wouldn't surprise me if the guys in Canada continued to run their operations on a smaller scale. Since, starting in the 1990s, the Canadian wing was reported to be separated from the Buffalo wing, they could have been independent for awhile, although I think they would have been taken over or absorbed by the local, far more powerful, Mafia or Ndrangheta there.

Right, meaning theres an active Buffalo Crime Family. What evidence do you have showing the Canadians split from Buffalo??

The DOJ would say the Canadian Mafia which once was considered the LCN if thats what they meant

There was busts in the 90s and 2003 showing the affiliation

and the FBI chart in 2006 shows the Buffalo crew in Canada still intact

All the defunct families arent even close to being able to compare with Buffalo in the last 20 years

Another side note, (others posted on the Violi thread)

The 210 and 91 are both rebuilding the Buffalo/Fort Erie bridge

So what is the debate?

Everyone agrees that the Buffalo family is active today because they just got indicted last month.

So they have to be active.


The debate is do they have a formal structure or is it just the guys that are left from back in day operating independent?

The only ways to know that:

1) Someone flips and lays out the structure.
2) It's mentions it in the actual inducement.
3) They go to trial and everything comes out.
4) Someone locally in the know posts on here.

Everyone can have different opinions which is what is happening here I don't think one opinion is better than the other.

Sorry the automatic spell check kills me.
I have to change the setting.

Besides my thumbs are too big for my phone.

I shouldn't really say "split," I should say defunct.

"and the Canadian crew as dead as charity since the assassination of John “Johnny Pops” Papaglia in 1997." Critically acclaimed Niagara Falls Reporter Mike Hudson, who is an expert on the Buffalo mob.

I'm sure you know all about Papalia's death by the hands of Ang Musitano and his crew, as well as the death of Papalia's number-two Carmen Barillaro on the hands of Musitano's crew that same year. You can't tell me there was anything viable Canadian structure left after the death of those two, and if there was then the powerful Musitanos would have dismantled that the same way they dismantled Papalia and Barillaro.

I suppose we have different definitions of the family being "active." In my opinion, one or two made members operating independently or under the wing of another family does not constitute a family being "active." A family being active means the family is active, as in the organization. A made member is a made member for life, and if that member continues running his shy book 25 years after the organization he belonged to is gone, then that is not "active" in my humble opinion.

Also, the inherent problem with people that are "locally in the know" posting on a forum is that we have no way of knowing whether they are really "in the know," or whether they are making up information just for fun, as has been the case in the past with certain users.

If Rooster is proven right, I will definitely apologize. I do not know for certain that he is wrong. But logical thought indicates he's wrong.

Again, if the DOJ didnt consider them an active family they wouldnt have worded it the way they did. And again the FBI report listed the Canadian as in tact in 06. You cant compare Buffalo to any of the defunct families you listed, thats not logical thought. The Papalia murder was done by the Musitanos who never were aligned with the Violi/Luppino group, they were a modest sized crew then and still are (hanging on for dear life). Many Canadian guys came over for Falzone and Capitanos funeral. Still lots of respect going back decades.

And what Trafficante member was working alongside Gotti Jr back then?

I scoured the internet and found nothing about any Trafficante member working alongside any Gambino member. No articles, no indictments.

Can you post the source Nicky?

Wikipedia mentions it, also since there is no source provided I did some further googling.

"By the late 1990s some suspected the family was dormant, some said the family was absorbed by the New York-based Gambino family, while others maintained the family was still around, but not as active." - https://www.cltampa.com/news-views/article/20712530/the-mob

Scott Deitche has said that an LE source told him as far back as 1997/1998 that "you know the Trafficantes are under the Gambinos now." Deitche also mentioned how John Mamone - a powerful Trafficante soldier and second-in-command to longtime Miami capo Steve Raffa - told investigators after he flipped in 2000 that when he was inducted into the crime family in the mid-1990s in Tampa, Raffa told him they were "with" the Gambinos.
In Deitche's book "Cigar City Mafia," which is probably the most comprehensive book on the Trafficante crime family, Deitche maintained from pages 264-266 that the prevailing theory was that the family was under the Gambinos. He is able to tie in numerous busts to illustrate the ties that the two families have, and explicitly mentioned John Gotti Jr. Other names mentioned were Gambino senior advisor Joe Arcuri, "a native Tampan with ties to both Trafficante and LoScalzo," Gambino crew leader Ronald 'Ronnie One Arm' Trucchio, Vincent 'Vinny Aspirins' Congiusti, Terry Scaglione, and more.