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Rizzuto Family Chart before Vito arrest in 2004
#923871
11/28/17 01:08 PM
11/28/17 01:08 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 7,237
naples,italy
furio_from_naples
OP
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OP
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 7,237
naples,italy
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http://gangsterreport.com/the-montreal-m...ated-revisited/https://panamericancrime.wordpress.com/2...ot-and-mastiff/Sorry for eventual mistakes Thanks to Ciment and Antimafia Boss:Vito "Don Vito" Rizzuto Consigliere:Paolo Renda/Nick Rizzuto sr Underboss:Francesco Arcadi Capos: Liborio “Poncho” [BadWord] Frank Arcadi(get 15 y in 2008) Arcadi's crew Lorenzo Giordano Frank del Balso (get 15 y in 2008) Franco Pellegrino Giuseppe Torre Angelo Follano Giuseppe Devito Antonio Capitanio Domenic Macrì Carmelo Cannistraro Carlo Narvaez Ray Kanho Pietro D'amato Frank Faustini Rudolfo Ignoto Domingo Lecompte Carlo Sciarraffa Stacey Krolik Alessandro Sucapane Vincent Lemay Charles Battista Dany Martinez Enio Bruni Desiderio Pompa Giuseppe Fetta Achille Torre Domenico Velenosi Italian made men or associates Johnny Bertolo Domenico Macri Frank Velenosi Mario (Skinny) Marabella Sam Fasulo Freddy Del Peschio Agostino [BadWord] Liborio Sciascia Antonio Di Salvo Larry Lopresti Giuseppe (Joe Closure) Colapelle Joe Renda Giuseppe (Smiling Joe) Di Maulo Emilio Cordeleone Vincenzo Scuderi Moreno (The Turkey) Gallo Rocco (Sauce) Sollecito Angelo D’Onofrio (Semi-retired) Vince Spagnolo Antonio De Blasio Manuel Cachiero Carmelo Cannistraro Anthony Capitano Rocco Caruso Dany Ceccere Pietro D'Adamo Marco DePasquale Matteo DePasquale Antonio Dell'Ermo Roland Devantro Marco Cerone Dino DiQuinzio Nello DiRienzo Frank Faustini Giuseppe Fetta Angelo Follano Adolfo Foriero Nino Fratolillo Rodolfo Ignoto Jody Lazore Frank Moscato Natalino Paccione Marco Pedicelli Franco Pellegrino Giovanni Petrella Emilio Rafeli Eugenio Reda Raffaele Ricci Giuseppe Spinello Alessandro Sucapane Tony Tallarita Archille Torre Giuseppe Torre Michele Torre Domenico Velenosi Franco Ventulleri Girolamo DEL BALSO Nicola DIMARCO Louis MARCONE Non Italian associates Constantin (Big Gus) Alevizos Walter Gurierrez Mohamed Awada (Desjardins associate) Gaetan Gosselin (Desjardins ally) Juan (Joe Bravo) Fernandez Roger Valiquette Chadi Amja Kamel Aloude Ricardo Arias Brenes Luis Arruda Jean Balmir Rony Bardales Ivan Bayter Marilyn Beliveau Jose Castillo Martinez Nanct Cedeno Julie Fleury Peter Dafniotis Sherry Darling Gaetan Dugas Stephane Dupuis Jean Dussault Ralph Duval Jose Flores Martin Joliecoeur Ray Kanho Stacey Krolik Amelie Lachance Claude Lanthier George Lapas Paul Labrasseur David Lechasseur Domingo Lecompte Dany Martinez Canas Mihail Mestidis Carlos Orellana Joao Parreira Sebastien Pierre Louis Jean Reacarld Omar Riahi Nick Rogopoulos Samir Salame Jerome Shenandoah Ramona Shenandoah Andrea Ramos Sylvain St Marie Manouk Tsilingerian Gary Yessaian Tarlochan BAJAJ
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Re: Rizzuto Family Chart before Vito arrest in 2004
[Re: Regoparker100]
#924161
12/04/17 07:34 PM
12/04/17 07:34 PM
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Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 10,247
Ciment
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Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 10,247
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How many of them were also part of the Bonanno family's Canadian crew? When Sal Montagna got deported to Canada some of his recruits were: Moreno Gallo Joe Renda- nephew of George Scascia(Bonanno) Lorenzo Lopresti- son of Joe Lopresti (Bonanno) Domenico Arcuri-Domenico sr is cousin or brother Joe Arcuri(Bonanno) Antonio Arcuri-Domenico sr is cousin or brother Joe Arcuri(Bonanno) Antonio Pietrantonio He also formed an alliance with Raynald Desjardins/Vittorio Mirarchi & others to overthrow the Rizzuto's. Sal got too ambitious and made a fatal error by attempting to murder Desjardins & failed. Desjardins retaliated & put a hit on Sal Montagna.
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Re: Rizzuto Family Chart before Vito arrest in 2004
[Re: furio_from_naples]
#924250
12/06/17 02:19 PM
12/06/17 02:19 PM
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Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 1,710
BillyBrizzi
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Oct 2015
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The Montreal crew was de facto indipendent and become indipendent stop to paying tribute to Massino after Sciascia murder; Montagna after was deported back to canada was a simple soldier that tried to take the rizzuto family and doesn't had real power because was easly whacked.
Montreal kept sending tribute to NY for years and years after the Sciascia murder and to say that Montagna didn't have any power and was 'easily' whacked is complete and utter bullshit.
Last edited by BillyBrizzi; 12/06/17 02:21 PM.
FORTIS FORTUNA IUVAT
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Re: Rizzuto Family Chart before Vito arrest in 2004
[Re: BillyBrizzi]
#924256
12/06/17 05:36 PM
12/06/17 05:36 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 7,237
naples,italy
furio_from_naples
OP
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OP
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 7,237
naples,italy
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According to multiple turncoats (Vitale + Cicale, just to name a couple) NY still got a yearly tribute from Montreal and just the fact that Montagna could create a civil war proved that he had some REAL power. On March 18, 1999, the bullet-ridden body of Gerlando Sciascia was tossed from a truck into a Bronx street. Sciascia was known in New York as “George from Canada,” a nickname noting his position as the Montreal mob’s man in New York’s Bonanno Family, one of the famed Five Mafia Families of New York. Sciascia’s murder, at the time, was a mystery, and police scrutinized his wake and funeral as dozens of ranking mafiosi paid respects to the Montreal gangster. Renda was among the mourners, according to testimony from Salvatore “Good-Looking Sal” Vitale, who was the Bonanno Family’s underboss at the time (but who since became a government witness.) He described Renda as a “goodfellow in our family.” He was also a relative of Sciascia’s. The significance of the murder, however, as would later be revealed, was that it was secretly ordered by Bonanno boss Joseph “Big Joey” Massino, who asked his inner circle to never let Rizzuto know as he did not want to alienate the powerful clan of mobsters in Montreal. The murder severed Rizzuto’s link to New York. He largely turned his back on the American gangsters from then on. The regular flow of “tribute” money from Canada to New York also ended.“He was very hurt by what happened to George,” Vitale said of Rizzuto.
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Re: Rizzuto Family Chart before Vito arrest in 2004
[Re: furio_from_naples]
#924304
12/08/17 05:35 AM
12/08/17 05:35 AM
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Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,650
Chicago
CabriniGreen
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,650
Chicago
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@ Billy, I think that came from Cicale, not Vitale.
@ Furio
A lot of people feel the Sixth Family was too sensationalized, like it made the Rizzutos seem invincible. I argued with Alfa on this very point, and the fuckin AUTHOR OF THE BOOK came on here!! Lol ( Billy, I'm sure you remember...)
They probably have a point, there. But it happens with every book, these people have a " perspective issue", you always see your world as the center of everything.
Billy, I know people think Montagna had a lot of power, and maybe he did.
Honestly, all I see is the Gambinos and the Siderno group high command giving him the go ahead to make moves up there. Then hanging him out to dry. Cause understand, the Gambinos were partners with Nick Rizzuto since the 70s.
Here this as my source........
The most intriguing of the dozens [BadWord]-Caruana enterprises was a cattle-breeding company on an extended ranch in the state of Barinas, close to the Colombian border. It had its own private airstrip. A special task-force of the Venezuelan intelligence-service DISIP looked at this farm called Ganaderia Rio Zapa, established in 1971. (49) The shareholders of the firm represented the creme-de-la-creme of Mafia heroin-movers in those days:
* Salvatore 'Cicchiteddu' Greco, the former head of the overall Commission of the Sicilian Cosa Nostra, and one of the pioneers in the international heroin trade (50);
* Nick Rizzuto, a lieutenant in the Montreal-based Cotroni Family, but highly independent and in fact subordinate to the Sicilian Mafia (i.e. [BadWord]-Caruana);
* Antonio Napoli, a high-ranking made member of the New York Gambino Family and 'the biggest mover of junk to the United States' (51);
* John Gambino, a relative of Carlo Gambino and boss of the Sicilian faction of the New York Gambino Family (52);
* Brothers Angelo and Francesco Mongiovì, figure-heads of the [BadWord] in Caracas and Italy's financial centre Milan. According to a DEA report, Angelo's son Nino Mongiovì married Paolo [BadWord]'s daughter and was the 'super manager for drugs of all kinds passing through Miami'. (53)
(NOTE HERE, VERY IMPORTANT, THIS IS THE HIGH COMMAND FOR THE OPERATION, NO BONNANOS TO BE SEEN, they matter, WHEN THE DOPE GETS TO NY, and then it's like they get first buy, maybe even they get it on consignment....)
The DEA spotted them investigating the Napoli brothers of the Gambino Family in New York. Antonio Napoli had moved to Venezuela and was a partner in a [BadWord] business. At the time DEA headquarters figured the trail irrelevant; nevertheless, special agent Tom Tripodi was sent to Caracas. DEA-analyst Mona Ewell told reporter Claire Sterling that Tripodi "came back with the whole thing." (54)
Also notice, Napoli is a Gambino soldier, ( not Bonnano) I read on another forum, one of his relatives I think was Inzerillos underboss in Sicily? Don't quote me on that one I forget.
(See the whole issue is DID RIZZUTO ANSWER TO THE SICILIAN MAFIA OR THE AMERICAN MAFIA?)
Now, understand. This is one of the heads of the Cupola, Rizzuto, Gambino, AND the Caruana clan, all partners here. ALL HEAVYWEIGHTS.
Essentially, I believe John and Frank Gambino were basically kind of predecessors of Rizzutos in the international ITALIAN drug trade. But with the Cherry Hill bust, Iron Tower, Riina in Sicily, the Gambinos operation was in disarray for awhile, and the Rizzutos filled the void.
I think since, about 99-2000 or whatever, the Gambinos, and SICILY in general were trying to rebuild that structural tie.
So a move on the Rizzutos, I believe ultimately benefitted the " New " controllers of the drug trade, the Sicilian families allied with the Gambino's and Bonnanos ( always for distribution in NYC with the Bonnanos...) the Calabrian clans, and so forth. But it's really a return of the status quo. In fact, maybe you could say it's just a rotation of leaders.
The problem for the Rizzutos was that cocaine was the new thing, and the Calabrians controlled the coke, so they had the leverage. Same situation they had with Violi years prior. And WHO got the Calabrians their coke, who managed the shipments? The Caruana clan. So all these people have been partners in the same business for a long time. That 5000 plus kilo load seized from the Caruana clan was for the CALABRIANS, not the Sicilians or the Americans, and this was in like 1994.
So you got Gambinos meeting with Calabrians in Toronto, facts.
You got the Gambinos and Bonnanos splitting market share in NY, facts.
You got the Sicilian mafia running the dope trade like a joint stock venture, facts.
You got Sicilian gangsters (BOSSES) flying across the Atlantic to meet with Cali, a top Gambino, ( Not Bonnanos, that I know of or heard of, they might, have truthfully I don't know..) with family ties to the clan that previously ran the international drug trade, facts.
You got Colombia, who lost faith with the Sicilians because of a series of bungled shipments, that pushed them further into the Calabrians orbit, facts.
You got the Caruana clan, whom at first appearance look to be Bonnano agents, as they work extensively with Rizzuto, but they have been in the drug trade since the 50s or earlier and their allegiance appears to be based on that. OPINION, ( I believe it to be facts..) LOL
They managed a 5000 plus kilo load of cocaine paid for by a consortium of Calabrian families, years before Montreal war began, so they had established and significant business ties, definite business reasons to side with the Calabrese over the Rizzutos, facts.
Billy' you read Mafia Republic right? There was a part in there where Dicke says that the American LCN was pissed that the Sicilians tried to cut them out of the Coke trade, they probably felt it should have been handled the same as the heroin, along the same Routes.
See this is why it's significant that the first people Montagna met up there were the Calabrians. Not the " Canadian Bonnanos" or whatever. And WHO got him that meeting? Speculation on my part, but my money is on someone from the Gambinos.
All the people he made alliances with, had something to gain from the Rizzutos being outta there.
Then you have the Violi brothers angle, with the vendettas. I think it's a complicated situation there, MUCH bigger than Montagna.
Cicale DID say they were still sending tribute. But I feel like this is a gross misunderstanding. The tribute was said to be 25gs, then a 100 grand.
Okay, to an organization bringing in millions of dollars worth of narcotics, dude, I think Vito LOST A LOAD OF HASH, LOST, MIND YOU, worth over a couple hundred mil. Those couple few thousand were just the cost of doing business. Like a fee you pay, you could even call it an " import fee" lol.
I feel like the relationship is like a gas supplier to a gas station magnate to borrow a metaphor from Gomorrah. The Gambinos and Bonnanos are like fuckin Macy's, right? ( or Walmart) Well the Calabrians and Sicilians are like Levis or Nike. Both NEED each other, but Macy's don't run Nike and Nike don't run Macy's, but their places in the market MAY allow one to dictate terms to the other depending on how business is going.
Just anyone tell me, what was Montagnas strength up there? Was it the Bonnano Family Montreal crew? I mean Americans stationed in Montreal? Zips?
I think his strength was that everyone was Calculating a bigger slice of the Montreal rackets for themselves with Vito In jail, and the arrest on their hierarchy. And he could take advantage.
He was using the street gangs for his muscle. Made guys in NY don't send the Bloods to pick up the Union payoff or their loan action, or sports book winnings.
I dunno, I see the drug trade as a partnership between the Italian Mafias and the American families, something that spans multiple countries, nations, command structures. I mean I don't think Cali or Cefalu just " Tell" Sicily what to do. People didnt think Mancuso was really in charge, but he can tell Montreal what to do? I think it's more like, they could dictate who they could or could not sell to in NYC. ( And frankly, that may not even be true..) It's weird to me... Basciano was literally the lowest ranking man at Bonos wedding, as far as the DRUG TRADE WAS CONCERNED.
If ANYONE woulda been giving Canada orders, it seems like it woulda been him. My opinion. This whole saga is the most interesting topic in Italian OC, I MO....
Last edited by CabriniGreen; 12/08/17 06:14 AM.
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Re: Rizzuto Family Chart before Vito arrest in 2004
[Re: furio_from_naples]
#924305
12/08/17 05:49 AM
12/08/17 05:49 AM
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Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,650
Chicago
CabriniGreen
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,650
Chicago
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In short Billy, I feel the Gambinos and the Calabrians used Montagna to get rid of the Rizzutos for them.
Edit: It might be a mistake to look at the Rizzutos as the top of the chain, it might be the Caruana clan, who answer ultimately to the Cupola, or what ever clans invested in the drug shipments. And they might have been usurped by the Calabrians, who have all the drug connects in the world, AS WELL as an established base in northern Italy for money laundering. Also they are tho MOST global mafia, active on every continent.
Quick question, anyone know if the Bonnanos got a piece of the Montreal construction, that big sports book they had up there, like the traditional rackets? I DO believe the Bonnanos may have some say there.
But then we never identify WHO are the made guys up there loyal to the Bonnanos. Another reason why the recent arrest were so intriguing, because it was a Bonnano in Cananda making a guy and telling him specifically " YOU ARE WITH THE BONNANO FAMILY". Instead of just making a Sicilian born mobster who may or may not even have real loyalty to your organization. It's just Sicilian Mafiosi " initiated" into the Bonnanos for the sake of not stepping on the Americans toes.
Rizzuto to reminds so much of a guy like Coppola. Coppola technically I think wasn't even a CAPO. Just a soldier like Vito. But he ran an international drug operation, was a trusted ally of SEVERAL families, picked HIS OWN BOSSES SUCCESOR in Sicily, was close to Leggio and the Coleonesi, actually was called the most powerful crime figure in Italy at the time of his death.
I mean I know technically the Detroit guys outranked him but give me a break, lol....
Last edited by CabriniGreen; 12/08/17 06:30 AM.
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Re: Rizzuto Family Chart before Vito arrest in 2004
[Re: furio_from_naples]
#924306
12/08/17 06:22 AM
12/08/17 06:22 AM
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Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,650
Chicago
CabriniGreen
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,650
Chicago
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Actually, one more point, even Sciascia confounds me.
Was he killed cause he hit Cotronis son?
Did he offend Massino or Gotti?
Was he Vito's man in NY, or NYs man in Montreal?
Yet he clearly seemed to disrespect the chain of command in NY, I can't see him being " New Yorks" man.
@ Billy
I know you frequent the other forum, I know you saw the big thread on the Sicilian Gambinos.
There was lot on there on how John Gambino acted pretty autonomously, even though he was technically under the American structure. Also on how he was basically respected like a boss, not a soldier. It also said Cheech Gambino was on his way to being a mafia leader, but he wasn't even made in the American families I don't think. This was from informants in Italy. Lol, as I say that, it might be more of that geographical bias, but not in the case of Gambino, I don't think...
All these big mafia drug guys look the same to me. Very autonomous, very powerful, always connected to multiple families on both sides of the Atlantic.
Last edited by CabriniGreen; 12/08/17 06:33 AM.
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Re: Rizzuto Family Chart before Vito arrest in 2004
[Re: CabriniGreen]
#924307
12/08/17 06:49 AM
12/08/17 06:49 AM
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Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 10,247
Ciment
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Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 10,247
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In short Billy, I feel the Gambinos and the Calabrians used Montagna to get rid of the Rizzutos for them.
Quick question, anyone know if the Bonnanos got a piece of the Montreal construction, that big sports book they had up there, like the traditional rackets? I DO believe the Bonnanos may have some say there.
But then we never identify WHO are the made guys up there loyal to the Bonnanos. Another reason why the recent arrest were so intriguing, because it was a Bonnano in Cananda making a guy and telling him specifically " YOU ARE WITH THE BONNANO FAMILY". Instead of just making a Sicilian born mobster who may or may not even have real loyalty to your organization. It's just Sicilian Mafiosi " initiated" into the Bonnanos for the sake of not stepping on the Americans toes.
Rizzuto to reminds so much of a guy like Coppola. Coppola technically I think wasn't even a CAPO. Just a soldier like Vito. But he ran an international drug operation, was a trusted ally of SEVERAL families, picked HIS OWN BOSSES SUCCESOR in Sicily, was close to Leggio and the Coleonesi, actually was called the most powerful crime figure in Italy at the time of his death.
I mean I know technically the Detroit guys outranked him but give me a break, lol.... I am of the same opinion that Montagna was used by the Calabrians.The Gambino's would not jeopardize their relationship with the Calabrians just because of Montagna's own ambitions. Montagna was in Montreal for one reason(he was deported) and decided to make the best of the situation.
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Re: Rizzuto Family Chart before Vito arrest in 2004
[Re: CabriniGreen]
#924309
12/08/17 07:26 AM
12/08/17 07:26 AM
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Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 10,247
Ciment
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Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 10,247
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Actually, one more point, even Sciascia confounds me.
Was he killed cause he hit Cotronis son?
Did he offend Massino or Gotti?
Was he Vito's man in NY, or NYs man in Montreal?
Yet he clearly seemed to disrespect the chain of command in NY, I can't see him being " New Yorks" man.
@ Billy
I know you frequent the other forum, I know you saw the big thread on the Sicilian Gambinos.
There was lot on there on how John Gambino acted pretty autonomously, even though he was technically under the American structure. Also on how he was basically respected like a boss, not a soldier. It also said Cheech Gambino was on his way to being a mafia leader, but he wasn't even made in the American families I don't think. This was from informants in Italy. Lol, as I say that, it might be more of that geographical bias, but not in the case of Gambino, I don't think...
All these big mafia drug guys look the same to me. Very autonomous, very powerful, always connected to multiple families on both sides of the Atlantic. Scascia did not have Cotroni's son killed.The killer Gerald Gallant confessed he was with Rock Machine, outlaw biker gang that were warring with the Hells Angels. Cotroni's son did business with the Hells. With regards to Scascia, some say he had dual membership. He was a Bonanno made man but he also was a member of the Rizzuto Sicilian clan. If he were still alive, I believe his loyalty would be with the Rizzuto's.
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Re: Rizzuto Family Chart before Vito arrest in 2004
[Re: furio_from_naples]
#924311
12/08/17 08:23 AM
12/08/17 08:23 AM
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Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 10,247
Ciment
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Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 10,247
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New York Times Ex-Mob Boss Tells Jury, Calmly, About Murders
By LIZ ROBBINSAPRIL 14, 2011
The cross-examination of a Mafia turncoat started quietly and predictably enough on Thursday. Joseph C. Massino, the former boss of the Bonanno crime family, spoke matter-of-factly about having to kill one of his closest associates, simply because he had disobeyed protocol.
“As much as I didn’t want to kill him,” Mr. Massino said of the 1999 murder of Gerlando Sciascia, “I had to kill him.”
NEWSNEW YORK
Massino ends testimony; hopeful
By ANTHONY M. DESTEFANO
anthony.destefano@newsday.com
Updated April 21, 2011 10:58 PM
During his testimony, Massino indicated that while mob members risk death by committing a murder without approval or by lying to the family boss, enforcement of those rules was erratic. For instance, Massino said he had Bonanno captain Gerlando Sciascia killed in 1999 because he didn't seek approval for the slaying of another mobster's son. But Massino then said he didn't kill another Bonanno mobster who apparently lied about slaying a couple who specialized in robbing mob social clubs.
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Re: Rizzuto Family Chart before Vito arrest in 2004
[Re: Ciment]
#924325
12/08/17 02:06 PM
12/08/17 02:06 PM
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 2,659
antimafia
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 2,659
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Actually, one more point, even Sciascia confounds me.
Was he killed cause he hit Cotronis son?
Did he offend Massino or Gotti?
Was he Vito's man in NY, or NYs man in Montreal?
Yet he clearly seemed to disrespect the chain of command in NY, I can't see him being " New Yorks" man.
@ Billy
I know you frequent the other forum, I know you saw the big thread on the Sicilian Gambinos.
There was lot on there on how John Gambino acted pretty autonomously, even though he was technically under the American structure. Also on how he was basically respected like a boss, not a soldier. It also said Cheech Gambino was on his way to being a mafia leader, but he wasn't even made in the American families I don't think. This was from informants in Italy. Lol, as I say that, it might be more of that geographical bias, but not in the case of Gambino, I don't think...
All these big mafia drug guys look the same to me. Very autonomous, very powerful, always connected to multiple families on both sides of the Atlantic. Scascia did not have Cotroni's son killed.The killer Gerald Gallant confessed he was with Rock Machine, outlaw biker gang that were warring with the Hells Angels. Cotroni's son did business with the Hells. With regards to Scascia, some say he had dual membership. He was a Bonanno made man but he also was a member of the Rizzuto Sicilian clan. If he were still alive, I believe his loyalty would be with the Rizzuto's. Ciment, A poster on another OC forum had requested and obtained an FBI file in which intelligence was gathered that offers another possible motive for Massino's having Sciascia killed. Although I believe the intelligence to be way off the mark, I present a summary of it here--not as fact, mind you, as neither did the aforementioned poster, who is a very reliable researcher. According to the file, a nephew of Gerlando Sciascia had a physical altercation with one of Frank Cotroni Sr's sons. I am certain the former is Giuseppe "Joe" Renda and that the latter is Paolo "Paul" Cotroni. Apparently, Paul hit Renda in the face and did some damage, breaking Renda's jaw. Furthermore, according to the intelligence gathered, Sciascia retaliated by arranging to have Paul murdered. Further still, Massino felt he had no choice but to have Sciascia killed because Sciascia had not sought permission to kill the son of a made man, i.e., a son of Frank Cotroni Sr.; in particular, the file states that Massino had Sciascia killed because of pressure from Cotroni Sr. or Cotroni Sr.'s supporters, who wanted Massino to follow mob protocols. The most serious flaw with the intelligence, of course, is that Joe Renda, born in New York, was a made Bonanno, whereas Paul Cotroni was not a made man (and quite frankly, had he lived, would never be made in his lifetime). This particular intelligence gathering is a perfect example of why law-enforcement intelligence can be very wrong. I would add that this type of intelligence is also wrong more often than we think.
Last edited by antimafia; 12/08/17 02:25 PM. Reason: Tightened up the writing.
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Re: Rizzuto Family Chart before Vito arrest in 2004
[Re: antimafia]
#924341
12/08/17 05:41 PM
12/08/17 05:41 PM
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Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 10,247
Ciment
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Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 10,247
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Actually, one more point, even Sciascia confounds me.
Was he killed cause he hit Cotronis son?
Did he offend Massino or Gotti?
Was he Vito's man in NY, or NYs man in Montreal?
Yet he clearly seemed to disrespect the chain of command in NY, I can't see him being " New Yorks" man.
@ Billy
I know you frequent the other forum, I know you saw the big thread on the Sicilian Gambinos.
There was lot on there on how John Gambino acted pretty autonomously, even though he was technically under the American structure. Also on how he was basically respected like a boss, not a soldier. It also said Cheech Gambino was on his way to being a mafia leader, but he wasn't even made in the American families I don't think. This was from informants in Italy. Lol, as I say that, it might be more of that geographical bias, but not in the case of Gambino, I don't think...
All these big mafia drug guys look the same to me. Very autonomous, very powerful, always connected to multiple families on both sides of the Atlantic. Scascia did not have Cotroni's son killed.The killer Gerald Gallant confessed he was with Rock Machine, outlaw biker gang that were warring with the Hells Angels. Cotroni's son did business with the Hells. With regards to Scascia, some say he had dual membership. He was a Bonanno made man but he also was a member of the Rizzuto Sicilian clan. If he were still alive, I believe his loyalty would be with the Rizzuto's. Ciment, A poster on another OC forum had requested and obtained an FBI file in which intelligence was gathered that offers another possible motive for Massino's having Sciascia killed. Although I believe the intelligence to be way off the mark, I present a summary of it here--not as fact, mind you, as neither did the aforementioned poster, who is a very reliable researcher. According to the file, a nephew of Gerlando Sciascia had a physical altercation with one of Frank Cotroni Sr's sons. I am certain the former is Giuseppe "Joe" Renda and that the latter is Paolo "Paul" Cotroni. Apparently, Paul hit Renda in the face and did some damage, breaking Renda's jaw. Furthermore, according to the intelligence gathered, Sciascia retaliated by arranging to have Paul murdered. Further still, Massino felt he had no choice but to have Sciascia killed because Sciascia had not sought permission to kill the son of a made man, i.e., a son of Frank Cotroni Sr.; in particular, the file states that Massino had Sciascia killed because of pressure from Cotroni Sr. or Cotroni Sr.'s supporters, who wanted Massino to follow mob protocols. The most serious flaw with the intelligence, of course, is that Joe Renda, born in New York, was a made Bonanno, whereas Paul Cotroni was not a made man (and quite frankly, had he lived, would never be made in his lifetime). This particular intelligence gathering is a perfect example of why law-enforcement intelligence can be very wrong. I would add that this type of intelligence is also wrong more often than we think. Thanks for sharing. Interesting story from intelligence but I will explain why I do not buy it. Paul Cotroni got killed in 1998, that was during the biker war which began in 1994 and continued to 2002. The two warring biker gangs were the Rock Machine (arch enemies) of the Hells Angels back then. While they were at war you had mafia members doing business with both biker gangs. That came to an end when Mom Boucher complained to Rizzuto. Rizzuto & Mom Boucher struck an agreement. From then on Rizzuto's men were not to do business with the Rock Machine. A good example of this was the Rizzuto feud with Gervasi. Gervasi's were close to the Rock Machine and defied Rizzuto. In the year 2000 Paolo Gervasi son was found in the trunk of a car parked in front of his father's house Paolo Gervasi. In 2004 they killed the father too. The reason I gave all this background information is to illustrate that if Sciascia would of ordered a hit on Paul Cotroni he would of used the services of the Hells Angels not the Rock Machine that had resentment towards the Italians for siding with the Hells. Gerald Gallant, the guy that killed Cotroni was a hitman for the Rock Machine. He also confessed that the Italians are with the Hells Angels. Cotroni did business with the Hells and that is what did him in. According to investigation reports,Johnny Plescio a Rock Machine member,had warned Paul & Frank Cotroni jr. not to frequent the Hells Angels & friend Scott Steinert(HA). For your read reference I have included the above Journal de Montreal article.
Last edited by Ciment; 12/09/17 10:37 AM.
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Re: Rizzuto Family Chart before Vito arrest in 2004
[Re: furio_from_naples]
#924378
12/09/17 10:05 AM
12/09/17 10:05 AM
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Stubbs
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Capo
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Always excellent reading your posts Cabrini! What we don’t know if there are just a crew or two of the Bonanno and Gambino families who have the connections to Canada or if there’s something bigger at play, possibly lead by the leadership of those families.
Reading your posts in the thread, that make sense. Also, consider the Rizzutos/C.untrera-Caruanas are all from Agrigento. The timing of the Rizzuto takeover of Montreal makes me wonder how closely it was tied into war in Sicily: Violi was killed in '78... The Corleonesi (Riina/Provenzano) gained a control over the Cupola in Sicily in the mid/late-seventies and wiped out the Palermo leadership faction (Bontade/Inzerillo/Badalamenti/Sicily Gambinos) by something like '83.
I wonder how closely these two wars are tied? The Palermo group was obviously very close to the Gambinos and the Bonannos were close as well, via families in Castellamare del Golfo. When the Corleonesi took over they kept working with the Gambinos, with the later using John Gambino as their emissary back to the Cupola. The Cotroni family in Montreal were historically very close to the Bonnanos (and possibly the Gambinos to a lesser extent), so I wonder if the Corleonesi backed Rizzuto's takeover of Montreal in order to have more loyal allies in the US? That's always been something I've wondered: Who was loyal to Riina in the US/Canada when he took over? The Gambinos fell in line after the Corleonesi takeover, but I doubt they were the only Corleonesi connection in the US/Canada. Sicily seems to still be split to this day between the Palermo and Corleone faction.
"It wasn't very good parsley to begin with, and then the cat went and peed on it." -Sicilian proverb
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Re: Rizzuto Family Chart before Vito arrest in 2004
[Re: furio_from_naples]
#924379
12/09/17 10:06 AM
12/09/17 10:06 AM
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Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 305
Stubbs
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I think assuming the war in Montreal is just a simple breakdown of Sicilians vs Calabrians is naive, but I don't think it's too far off. Some educated guessing here:
* The Rizzuto/C.untrera-Caruana takeover of Montreal was backed by more powerful groups in Sicily than we realize (not just their families in Agrigento). Possibly they were backed by Toto Riina and the Corleonesi in order to have strong allies in North America outside of the Gambinos.
* The Rizzutos still kept an alliance with the Bonannos for a very long time until George from Canada was killed which seemed to have damaged the relationship beyond repair, though they still work together at a smaller level
* The Corleonesi war against the Italian state and against the Palermo group led to a huge crackdown against LCN and also killed off generations of talent... it wiped out a lot of strength from their bench so to speak, making the Sicilian Mafia much weaker overall.
* The Calabrian 'Ndràngheta quietly stayed under the radar and avoided headlines, building their own connections for drugs in Latin America and setting up bases all over Europe, Canada, and with mobsters in the US.
* Vito Rizzuto did an excellent job keeping all of the different factions in Montreal relatively happy and at peace, but when he went away to prison it created a huge power vacuum. It seems like Project Colisee really hurt the power of the Rizzuto group and the people left out on the street who were trying to run the family were simply not respected and/or feared enough to keep all of the different factions from going to war. That’s when we see old vendettas and beef start to bubble up and leads to the current war that’s lasted since about 2009.
* Around this same time we see Cali and the Gambinos trying to re-establish their historically strong ties to the Palermo faction in Sicily. The Gambinos are also rumored to have connections to different 'Ndràngheta groups, likely in Ontario. It wouldn't surprise me either to find more evidence in the future of the Sicilian Mafia and the Calabrians working together.
* With the 'Ndràngheta taking control of the drug trade in Europe and the Gambinos wanting to re-establish control in Sicily, they possibly decide to fill the leadership vacuum in Montreal and form an alliance to push out Rizzuto. It's possible the Sicilian faction of the Bonannos were involved too and wanted to re-establish strong ties with Montreal. Which is why Montagna backed a faction trying to oust the Rizzutos even though Sal himself is Sicilian. Sal was probably too hotheaded and not diplomatic enough to pull everything off, but I wouldnt be surprised if he was somehow trying to reestablish both the Bonannos connections in Montreal as well as connections with the Gambinos in both Canada and NY.
* The Violis in Hamilton seem aligned with the 'Ndràngheta as well. They may have been made into the "Todaro Family" of Buffalo way back when it existed, but (guessing here) I don't believe it's still a thing now in spite of the recent reports from law enforcement. I believe they were made into Buffalo decades ago but Buffalo as a traditional LCN structure doesn't exist: The people left are loyal elsewhere (Hamilton? Calabria?). They're more like a drug network than an American LCN family.
Long story short, the Bonannos realized they made a mistake backing the Rizzuto faction, the Gambinos wanted to re-establish connections in Sicily, the Palermo faction is trying to regain control of what they lost in Sicily, the Violis wanted revenge, and the Calabrians being the dominant worldwide mafia group all helped push out the Rizzutos. There’s probably a strong network of Calabrians between Ontario, Montreal, Hamilton, Buffalo, and NY with the Gambino (& maybe the Bonannos). The reason we're hearing about made "Bonannos" in Canada is because the Rizzuto group is out of power and the Bonannos are re-establishing their presence.
But, here's the thing, I dont think they've been completely successful and obviously, some of the Rizzuto group is still in power. Montreal may split up now with no one group in total control... with no rats it's hard to tell. The reality is probably a lot more complicated and not as clean cut and neat as we think it is.
"It wasn't very good parsley to begin with, and then the cat went and peed on it." -Sicilian proverb
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