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Pat's Thoughts Volume 28: Fidel Castro
#71447
07/27/04 10:24 PM
07/27/04 10:24 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 8,536 West Chester, PA
Patrick
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Actually read this before you bash me. :p :rolleyes:
Fidel Castro: Bad guy or a guy who tried to make things better for a country in need? While most people obviously know now that Communism doesn't work, we have to remember that when Castro was taking over Cuba, Communism was just starting. Countries were 'testing' it out. People didn't know if it'd work or fail.
I don't believe that Fidel Castro should be considered a horrible dictator, but I certainly don't think he should be considered a hero or idol. Castro overthrew a cruel dictatorship and has educated most of the people in Cuba. An article I read today also said that prositution is now very rare and that most of the prostitutes have been educated.
I can understand why many Cubans in America hate him because their relatives are still in Cuba. We have to remember that Castro sent over 100,000 Cubans to America in 1980, so not only did this enable some Cubans already in America to reunite with their families, but Castro also sent the criminals over, so he also decreased the crime level in Cuba by doing that. -Pat
"After every dark night, there's a bright day right after that. No matter how hard it gets, stick your chest out, keep your head up, and handle it." -Tupac Shakur
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Re: Pat's Thoughts Volume 28: Fidel Castro
#71454
07/28/04 01:41 AM
07/28/04 01:41 AM
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 5,602 Yunkai
afsaneh77
Mother of Dragons
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Mother of Dragons
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Yunkai
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Now seriously about this guy, I think he started with good intentions but either power has corrupted him or he has no faith in his people to find the right way on their own. His long speeches, his control over media, the fact that the whole government is not chosen by people with a free election on regular basis and all and all reminds me of my own country and I hated it this way. However, this is another country and I strongly believe freedom and democracy has to evolve within a society and it can't be delivered from other countries because it simply wouldn't be democracy anymore. People of a country have to pay for their freedom themselves. They have to grow politically before they can handle these issues. Originally posted by Krlea: Do you love it that he housed nuclear weapons for the Soviet Union to destroy us with? And Krlea, don't be so sure that what you say is right because media says so, they were telling the same stuff about Iraq and they have not found anything yet.
"Fire cannot kill a dragon." -Daenerys Targaryen, Game of Thrones
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Re: Pat's Thoughts Volume 28: Fidel Castro
#71455
07/28/04 01:44 AM
07/28/04 01:44 AM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 8,536 West Chester, PA
Patrick
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Kristen--I think I know what you meant. I don't think Castro is a good guy, but he certainly gets a bad wrap. He's no where near as bad as Stalin, Hitler, Mussolini, or Minh. -Pat
"After every dark night, there's a bright day right after that. No matter how hard it gets, stick your chest out, keep your head up, and handle it." -Tupac Shakur
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Re: Pat's Thoughts Volume 28: Fidel Castro
#71457
07/28/04 08:22 AM
07/28/04 08:22 AM
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 15,058 The Slippery Slope
plawrence
RIP StatMan
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RIP StatMan
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The Slippery Slope
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I'm as sceptical as the next person, if not more so, about what our government tells us, but as far as the Cuban Missle Crisis goes, I gotta believe we were being told the truth.
There was photo surveillance of the actual missles, which, I suppose, could have been fake, but all we did was put up a blockade, make some Russian ships turn back that were supposedly carrying more, and force the Soviets to remove their missles from Cuba, in exchange for which we made a secret deal with Khruschev to remove some or all of ours from Turkey (I'm a little hazy on the details of the last part).
So what would the point have been if there were actually no missles in Cuba and the whole "crisis" was a fake? What did we accomplish?
"Difficult....not impossible"
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Re: Pat's Thoughts Volume 28: Fidel Castro
#71460
07/28/04 12:02 PM
07/28/04 12:02 PM
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 4,273 Hell
Mike Sullivan
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Originally posted by Patrick: Actually read this before you bash me. :p :rolleyes:
Fidel Castro: Bad guy or a guy who tried to make things better for a country in need? While most people obviously know now that Communism doesn't work, we have to remember that when Castro was taking over Cuba, Communism was just starting. Countries were 'testing' it out. People didn't know if it'd work or fail.
I don't believe that Fidel Castro should be considered a horrible dictator, but I certainly don't think he should be considered a hero or idol. Castro overthrew a cruel dictatorship and has educated most of the people in Cuba. An article I read today also said that prositution is now very rare and that most of the prostitutes have been educated.
I can understand why many Cubans in America hate him because their relatives are still in Cuba. We have to remember that Castro sent over 100,000 Cubans to America in 1980, so not only did this enable some Cubans already in America to reunite with their families, but Castro also sent the criminals over, so he also decreased the crime level in Cuba by doing that. -Pat Have you seen Havana cica 1958. Now look at it in 2004. Communisim wasn't "just starting" in 1960. Communisim started when Marx met Engle in the 1840's and they wrote, The Communist Manifesto. The Soviet Union had already become Communists when Lenin and the Bolsheviks pulled the rug from under Czar Nicholous II in 1917. I'd of thought you'd of known this. In the 1950's, I belive Mao Tse Tung took China and made it "The Peoples Republic Of China". Communisim wasn't just starting out. It had been tryed many times. Communisim works like this. Revolution, folwed by a temporary leader, who them must conside his power to the people so that one and all are equal. The problem is is that no leader would ever let go of theat power. Commuinisim had also failed MANY TIMES! Fidel Castro over threw Fulencio Bautista, a man that assosiated with the Mafia but had brought so muich American dollars into Cuba. Then, of course, Castro took over and closed gambling and was embargoed and so he has destroyed Cuba's economic prosperaty of the '40's and '50's. In the early 1960's Castro killed thousands of his fucking enemies! He forced so many people to come to America as refuges. Castro never gave a shit about people reuniting with their families. He sent them here as cover for those criminals which came to Miami (A there where quite a few cases like that in the '80's here in Miami). You don't think he's a horrible dictator? Destroyed Cuba's ecoonomy, killed his enemies, constantly attacks America, killed everyone who invaded Cuba during the Bay Of Pigs. No. He's not that bad. I'm insulted by this thought Patrick. Why don't you go to hell! Or beter yet, go to Cuba. It's tthe same goddamn thing! You'll never understand how horrible a man he really is!
Madness! Madness! - Major Clipton The Bridge On The River Kwai
GOLD - GOLD - GOLD - GOLD. Bright and Yellow, Hard and Cold, Molten, Graven, Hammered, Rolled, Hard to Get and Light to Hold; Stolen, Borrowed, Squandered - Doled. - Greed
Nothing Is Written Lawrence Of Arabia
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Re: Pat's Thoughts Volume 28: Fidel Castro
#71461
07/28/04 02:36 PM
07/28/04 02:36 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 8,536 West Chester, PA
Patrick
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West Chester, PA
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I forgot you knew everything, Mike. What was I thinking? :rolleyes: The rich Cubans and Americans in Cuba to gamble were the ones that prospered under Batista. NO ONE else did. Poverty has DECREASED under Castro.
Kills his enemies? What countries DON'T kill their enemies?! That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. That's like me saying, "America is horrible. We're killing our enemies in Iraq." :rolleyes:
And who the hell is Mao Tse Tong? Mao Zedong took over China with Comunism. Yes, Communism was JUST starting all over the world in the 1930's (Italy and Germany). After that, Cuba had its' resolution just after the Vietnam war started and North Korea turned into Communism in the mid 50's right before the Revolution.
And I never said, "Communism doesn't fail." I said =, "It DOES, but was just being 'tested' out by countries at the time." You should've read the first sentence of my post and actually READ the paragraphs that followed, then maybe you'd have a clue. -Pat
"After every dark night, there's a bright day right after that. No matter how hard it gets, stick your chest out, keep your head up, and handle it." -Tupac Shakur
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Re: Pat's Thoughts Volume 28: Fidel Castro
#71470
07/29/04 04:02 PM
07/29/04 04:02 PM
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 991 New York
DonsAdvisor
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This argument has been going on for more that 40 years and Castro is still there.
Don't you think Castro is thankful for Florida electoral politics? He can cleverly blame every problem on the US embargo! Gee, if something hasn't worked for 40 years, why keep trying the same thing?
"A refusal is not the act of a friend"
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Re: Pat's Thoughts Volume 28: Fidel Castro
#71471
07/29/04 04:03 PM
07/29/04 04:03 PM
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 4,273 Hell
Mike Sullivan
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Originally posted by MaryCas: I'm certainly not up on Cuban politics, but it would seem to me that either Castro is doing something right, or he has a real strangle hold on the whole island. How long has he been in power? 40+ years. Is there any country any where in the world that has had the same ruler for that long? A handful at best. All the other "Communist" dictators have been deposed or their countries restructured. The people in that country are scared of Castro and the power that he has over them. They haven't had the balls to rebell. Those that dispise him decide to take refuge in America. I am a Cuban AMerican. Everyday I talk to my Grandmother, who after being married to a Marine for several years in the United States, went back to Cuba to see her father who was dying. She lived through Castro's revolution. There we're gunfights in the hills of Cuba for over a year. The people thought he'd be beter than Bautista, but he would become a monster. My grandmother had to come to AMerica without a husband, with two childeren (Ages 11 and 9) because Castro (The Not So Bad Guy) had launched Cuba into turmoil.
Madness! Madness! - Major Clipton The Bridge On The River Kwai
GOLD - GOLD - GOLD - GOLD. Bright and Yellow, Hard and Cold, Molten, Graven, Hammered, Rolled, Hard to Get and Light to Hold; Stolen, Borrowed, Squandered - Doled. - Greed
Nothing Is Written Lawrence Of Arabia
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Re: Pat's Thoughts Volume 28: Fidel Castro
#71472
07/29/04 04:09 PM
07/29/04 04:09 PM
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 4,273 Hell
Mike Sullivan
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Originally posted by Don Giorgio Gambino: While I don't agree with his politics, Castro is a brilliant statesman. If you have any chance read any of his epistles and letters. The guy knows what he's talking about.
And the fact that Cuba is bad because "Castro kills his enemies"...that's one of the dumbest statements ever! Of course he kills his enemies! Tell me what rulers haven't killed their enemies. Even God's chosen (King David) killed all of those who opposed Israel. What do you think Bush's going to do when he finds bin Laden? Shook him by the ear and say: "Bad boy! Bad boy!"?
"Why don't you go to Hell? Or Cuba! Is the same gddamn thing!"
No it ain't. Is an amazing place. I heard is beautiful or that's what my uncle and his Cuban wife tell me. Too bad you can't visit in now, thanks to Bush's brand new sanctions. I wouldn't live in Cuba, though. There aren't a lot of movies in their cinemas. Maybe spending a vacation in the summer. I'll like to meet the Old Fox before he goes. I'll have an interesting conversation with him on politics and the merits of Communism.
Giorgio Luigi Gambino It's a beautiful country if you have MONEY! Something Castro can use. If you ae a foregner, chances are your living in a resort, were you can not see Castro's atrocities. Why don't you look at some photo's of the slums of Havana sometimes, huh? People have only governemnt controled stations on the air, and any networks that come in from the US, are censored by Castro's totaliterian policies. Castro's enemies were people that disagreed with his ideals! Do we kill people we don't agree with? Hell no! I will tell you one thing, Castro is a very inteligent man. The fact that he has his law degree and is such a great orrator (and he is) proves his inteligence. That still does not change the fact that he is a horrible, dispicable man.
Madness! Madness! - Major Clipton The Bridge On The River Kwai
GOLD - GOLD - GOLD - GOLD. Bright and Yellow, Hard and Cold, Molten, Graven, Hammered, Rolled, Hard to Get and Light to Hold; Stolen, Borrowed, Squandered - Doled. - Greed
Nothing Is Written Lawrence Of Arabia
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Re: Pat's Thoughts Volume 28: Fidel Castro
#71473
07/29/04 04:54 PM
07/29/04 04:54 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 8,536 West Chester, PA
Patrick
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West Chester, PA
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It's a beautiful country if you have MONEY! ..and poverty has DECREASED under Castro. Castro's enemies were people that disagreed with his ideals! Do we kill people we don't agree with? No, we just kill people who don't listen to us when we tell them to do something. I will tell you one thing, Castro is a very inteligent man. The fact that he has his law degree and is such a great orrator (and he is) proves his inteligence. Couldn't have said it better myself, Mike. Why don't you look at some photo's of the slums of Havana sometimes, huh? There are slums in EVERY country. -Pat
"After every dark night, there's a bright day right after that. No matter how hard it gets, stick your chest out, keep your head up, and handle it." -Tupac Shakur
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Re: Pat's Thoughts Volume 28: Fidel Castro
#71474
07/29/04 07:59 PM
07/29/04 07:59 PM
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 560 New York
Mr. Baggins
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Originally posted by Patrick: ..and poverty has DECREASED under Castro.
Where have you gotten that idea? Just wondering because I looked up economic data on Cuba and the poverty level was unknown. At any rate, I can't believe that anyone here is defending Castro. If he is such a great guy, why do thousands of Cubans flee each year? Castro has imprisoned, tortured, and murdered thousands of his own people over the years. Disagreement with the government is simply not tolerated. I find it despicable that people would be willing to defend a man that has oppressed his own people for 40 years.
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Re: Pat's Thoughts Volume 28: Fidel Castro
#71475
07/29/04 08:42 PM
07/29/04 08:42 PM
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 4,273 Hell
Mike Sullivan
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Originally posted by Mr. Baggins: [quote]Originally posted by Patrick: ..and poverty has DECREASED under Castro.
Where have you gotten that idea? Just wondering because I looked up economic data on Cuba and the poverty level was unknown. At any rate, I can't believe that anyone here is defending Castro. If he is such a great guy, why do thousands of Cubans flee each year? Castro has imprisoned, tortured, and murdered thousands of his own people over the years. Disagreement with the government is simply not tolerated. I find it despicable that people would be willing to defend a man that has oppressed his own people for 40 years. [/quote]OMG! Thank you! I finally have back up on here!
Madness! Madness! - Major Clipton The Bridge On The River Kwai
GOLD - GOLD - GOLD - GOLD. Bright and Yellow, Hard and Cold, Molten, Graven, Hammered, Rolled, Hard to Get and Light to Hold; Stolen, Borrowed, Squandered - Doled. - Greed
Nothing Is Written Lawrence Of Arabia
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Re: Pat's Thoughts Volume 28: Fidel Castro
#71476
07/29/04 08:48 PM
07/29/04 08:48 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 8,536 West Chester, PA
Patrick
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West Chester, PA
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Originally posted by Mr. Baggins: [quote]Originally posted by Patrick: ..and poverty has DECREASED under Castro.
Where have you gotten that idea? Just wondering because I looked up economic data on Cuba and the poverty level was unknown. At any rate, I can't believe that anyone here is defending Castro. If he is such a great guy, why do thousands of Cubans flee each year? Castro has imprisoned, tortured, and murdered thousands of his own people over the years. Disagreement with the government is simply not tolerated. I find it despicable that people would be willing to defend a man that has oppressed his own people for 40 years. [/quote]A Republican talking about something he hasn't researched and knows nothing about. :rolleyes: Who would've thought? :rolleyes: Why do Cubans flee each year? Because they're the ones that DO have it bad, but DON'T rebel because there are too many people who still LOVE Castro for what he has done. Disagreement with the government isn't tolerated? Wow, you know, it's usually not if a country is communist. :rolleyes: Oppressed his own people?! He freed them from Batista, who is 50 times more worse then Castro himself! -Pat
"After every dark night, there's a bright day right after that. No matter how hard it gets, stick your chest out, keep your head up, and handle it." -Tupac Shakur
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