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Re: John Gotti Sr overly critisized [Re: Aces] #918454
08/15/17 05:59 AM
08/15/17 05:59 AM
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Tonytough Offline
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U dumb facks! We ain't talking "love" love

What I mean is people on here as one of u said "are fascinated" with him. What's there to be fascinated about- he was just a lunatic/ stupid boss yet when I say love what I mean is he doesn't get shit on like Gotti does. Put simply he is much more well liked on these boards but they are both the same

Scarfo was equally as stupid as Gotti if not worse

He decided murder was his calling card (yes we know because of what happened to his predecessors) made him that way but it doesn't take away the stupidity ... that fear led to guys like Tommy Del & Crow flipping and taking down the entire org

Granted a rat is a rat and would have turned anyway... but he made it a lot easier for guys to flip since they all saw how Salvi ended up (being loyal means nothing)

Who said he talked to reporters/ rather didn't talk to reporters. Does it even matter, he like Gotti loved to dress up and smile at the cameras

If he saw his name in the papers he was smiling for the entire day (most wisegusy would pay NOT to have their names in the papers)

He appointed his nephew who was the new breed of yappie dons who enjoyed the power and money but couldn't do the time. This put a lot of wiseguys in trouble not only in his own fam but other borgotas

And why did he promot Phil ? It was done to protect himself/ another dumb selfish move

Then he tried to get Nicky son to run things with cousin Tony and look where that got him. Almost killed. If he had any brains he would have realised it was over

Re: John Gotti Sr overly critisized [Re: Tonytough] #918461
08/15/17 08:06 AM
08/15/17 08:06 AM
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Posts: 3,056
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JCrusher Offline
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Originally Posted By: Tonytough
U dumb facks! We ain't talking "love" love

What I mean is people on here as one of u said "are fascinated" with him. What's there to be fascinated about- he was just a lunatic/ stupid boss yet when I say love what I mean is he doesn't get shit on like Gotti does. Put simply he is much more well liked on these boards but they are both the same

Scarfo was equally as stupid as Gotti if not worse

He decided murder was his calling card (yes we know because of what happened to his predecessors) made him that way but it doesn't take away the stupidity ... that fear led to guys like Tommy Del & Crow flipping and taking down the entire org

Granted a rat is a rat and would have turned anyway... but he made it a lot easier for guys to flip since they all saw how Salvi ended up (being loyal means nothing)

Who said he talked to reporters/ rather didn't talk to reporters. Does it even matter, he like Gotti loved to dress up and smile at the cameras

If he saw his name in the papers he was smiling for the entire day (most wisegusy would pay NOT to have their names in the papers)

He appointed his nephew who was the new breed of yappie dons who enjoyed the power and money but couldn't do the time. This put a lot of wiseguys in trouble not only in his own fam but other borgotas

And why did he promot Phil ? It was done to protect himself/ another dumb selfish move

Then he tried to get Nicky son to run things with cousin Tony and look where that got him. Almost killed. If he had any brains he would have realised it was over



NOBODY is fascinated with Scarfo. 99% of people on here have said he was a paranoid inept lunatic. So just relax man

Re: John Gotti Sr overly critisized [Re: Aces] #918463
08/15/17 08:44 AM
08/15/17 08:44 AM
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blueracing347 Offline
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They both became don's within a few years of one another. To me, the two of them marked the beginning of a change in lcn. They were both the complete opposites of their predecessors which their bared their families names. Gotti took over a rather stable family and Fucked it up. Scarfo took over a very unstable family which the two previous dons were assassinated. After he took over, his family thrived for a while until he was taken down. "You have to kill and keep killing...." or whatever Phil said scarfo said. I guess after all the violence one would become paranoid. Gotti should have relinquished his position to someone who would've been respected and not have been a hypocrite. Scarfo should have not put his son in charge. But what gets me, is all these guys now, from the 80's, and 90's. This ain't the turn of the century. Fuck that pyramid scheme, to Hell with jail, it can't be fun sneaking around from le and the irs, you can never trust anyone. There are plenty of careers that can give you a wonderful living if you put the time into. I bet more retired fbi and cops are enjoying their retirement years then the guys that spent their careers trying to evade them. Granted there are a few that retired well off.

Re: John Gotti Sr overly critisized [Re: Aces] #918464
08/15/17 08:52 AM
08/15/17 08:52 AM
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Who is low key; steven crea ??? He is going to get life. How many years on the street did he really have.. doesnt matter, you are going down.

Re: John Gotti Sr overly critisized [Re: Aces] #918465
08/15/17 09:10 AM
08/15/17 09:10 AM
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blueracing347 Offline
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Exactly. Someone posted an article about the cali cartel. They made lcn look like a Fucking pick quik chain. They even got busted. The Golden days are over and Gotti Sr. is the symbol to relate that with. If I were to be a criminal, I'd copy the Wolf of of Fucking Wall Street.

Re: John Gotti Sr overly critisized [Re: Aces] #918466
08/15/17 09:27 AM
08/15/17 09:27 AM
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Want to be a criminal and get away with it? Become a lawyer....

Re: John Gotti Sr overly critisized [Re: Aces] #918488
08/15/17 02:24 PM
08/15/17 02:24 PM
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Dwalin2011 Offline
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Originally Posted By: Aces
Want to be a criminal and get away with it? Become a lawyer....

That would make things a hell of a lot easier, but lawyers sometimes get life sentences for organized crime related crimes too, even successful ones. Random examples: Paul Bergrin in the USA and Raffaele Bevilacqua in Sicily (he was a Commission member for the Enna province if I remember well). But it's difficult to send away a lawyer, that's true. Better than that, only immunity that national-level politicians have.

Last edited by Dwalin2011; 08/15/17 02:24 PM.

Willie Marfeo to Henry Tameleo:

1) "You people want a loaf of bread and you throw the crumbs back. Well, fuck you. I ain't closing down."

2) "Get out of here, old man. Go tell Raymond to go shit in his hat. We're not giving you anything."
Re: John Gotti Sr overly critisized [Re: JCrusher] #918493
08/15/17 04:49 PM
08/15/17 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted By: JCrusher
Originally Posted By: Tonytough
U dumb facks! We ain't talking "love" love

What I mean is people on here as one of u said "are fascinated" with him. What's there to be fascinated about- he was just a lunatic/ stupid boss yet when I say love what I mean is he doesn't get shit on like Gotti does. Put simply he is much more well liked on these boards but they are both the same

Scarfo was equally as stupid as Gotti if not worse

He decided murder was his calling card (yes we know because of what happened to his predecessors) made him that way but it doesn't take away the stupidity ... that fear led to guys like Tommy Del & Crow flipping and taking down the entire org

Granted a rat is a rat and would have turned anyway... but he made it a lot easier for guys to flip since they all saw how Salvi ended up (being loyal means nothing)

Who said he talked to reporters/ rather didn't talk to reporters. Does it even matter, he like Gotti loved to dress up and smile at the cameras

If he saw his name in the papers he was smiling for the entire day (most wisegusy would pay NOT to have their names in the papers)

He appointed his nephew who was the new breed of yappie dons who enjoyed the power and money but couldn't do the time. This put a lot of wiseguys in trouble not only in his own fam but other borgotas

And why did he promot Phil ? It was done to protect himself/ another dumb selfish move

Then he tried to get Nicky son to run things with cousin Tony and look where that got him. Almost killed. If he had any brains he would have realised it was over



NOBODY is fascinated with Scarfo. 99% of people on here have said he was a paranoid inept lunatic. So just relax man



Just saying, I read a lot of people slating how dumb Gotti was/ worse boss etc but I rarely see Scarfo get shitt on

He was just as dumb as Gotti if not dumber

Re: John Gotti Sr overly critisized [Re: Dwalin2011] #918498
08/15/17 05:44 PM
08/15/17 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted By: Dwalin2011
Originally Posted By: Aces
Want to be a criminal and get away with it? Become a lawyer....

That would make things a hell of a lot easier, but lawyers sometimes get life sentences for organized crime related crimes too, even successful ones. Random examples: Paul Bergrin in the USA and Raffaele Bevilacqua in Sicily (he was a Commission member for the Enna province if I remember well). But it's difficult to send away a lawyer, that's true. Better than that, only immunity that national-level politicians have.


Dont forget about the Rizzuto kid, he's the last one left in his blood family still alive!


"It wasn't very good parsley to begin with, and then the cat went and peed on it." -Sicilian proverb
Re: John Gotti Sr overly critisized [Re: Tonytough] #918500
08/15/17 07:26 PM
08/15/17 07:26 PM
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Originally Posted By: Tonytough
Originally Posted By: JCrusher
Originally Posted By: Tonytough
U dumb facks! We ain't talking "love" love

What I mean is people on here as one of u said "are fascinated" with him. What's there to be fascinated about- he was just a lunatic/ stupid boss yet when I say love what I mean is he doesn't get shit on like Gotti does. Put simply he is much more well liked on these boards but they are both the same

Scarfo was equally as stupid as Gotti if not worse

He decided murder was his calling card (yes we know because of what happened to his predecessors) made him that way but it doesn't take away the stupidity ... that fear led to guys like Tommy Del & Crow flipping and taking down the entire org

Granted a rat is a rat and would have turned anyway... but he made it a lot easier for guys to flip since they all saw how Salvi ended up (being loyal means nothing)

Who said he talked to reporters/ rather didn't talk to reporters. Does it even matter, he like Gotti loved to dress up and smile at the cameras

If he saw his name in the papers he was smiling for the entire day (most wisegusy would pay NOT to have their names in the papers)

He appointed his nephew who was the new breed of yappie dons who enjoyed the power and money but couldn't do the time. This put a lot of wiseguys in trouble not only in his own fam but other borgotas

And why did he promot Phil ? It was done to protect himself/ another dumb selfish move

Then he tried to get Nicky son to run things with cousin Tony and look where that got him. Almost killed. If he had any brains he would have realised it was over



NOBODY is fascinated with Scarfo. 99% of people on here have said he was a paranoid inept lunatic. So just relax man



Just saying, I read a lot of people slating how dumb Gotti was/ worse boss etc but I rarely see Scarfo get shitt on

He was just as dumb as Gotti if not dumber

he was definetly smarter than gotti to be fair. Also he was a better earner considering he controlled a lot of atlantic city. Scarfos biggest flaw was his bloodlust. He was so damn paranoid and obsessed with violence that it made him do stupid things

Re: John Gotti Sr overly critisized [Re: Aces] #918507
08/16/17 04:06 AM
08/16/17 04:06 AM
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salvi62 Offline
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I read (before they locked him up in supermax)that when Gotti was in jail awaiting his trial that he was idolized by many of the black "gangsta" types that were awaiting trials for things like drug dealing, strong arm robbery etc.

He told them all never to take a plea, make the government come after you and spend their money on a trial.

The next paragraph was how all these stupid kids who listened to Gotti who could have gotten 5 year plea deals got 20 to life for taking their shit to trial.

Somebody on here should know......

Did they ever catch Don Carlo on a bug????

John Coffey pretty much tells it like it is when it comes to these guys. Coffey spoke about how "cagey" Carlo was and how stupid Gotti was.

Sal

Re: John Gotti Sr overly critisized [Re: Aces] #918509
08/16/17 06:01 AM
08/16/17 06:01 AM
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Posts: 863
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Tonytough Offline
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Joe Coffee

Re: John Gotti Sr overly critisized [Re: Aces] #918510
08/16/17 06:04 AM
08/16/17 06:04 AM
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Tonytough Offline
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Chin was another dummy, when Vic &a Gas told him Black Pete was a rat he refused to act on it due to greed

Not to mention Sammy already told some
of chin's top underlings they shouldn't take a chance considering they found few bodies in his building

Yet he skated on any charges. That was telling in itself

And still Chin did not act. He not only put himself at risk but his underlings and other families due to pure stupidity

Yet I keep reading on here how smart Chin was. Most of the people who say that are just regurgitating what Sammy wrote in his book

Re: John Gotti Sr overly critisized [Re: Tonytough] #918513
08/16/17 09:55 AM
08/16/17 09:55 AM
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Dwalin2011 Offline
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Originally Posted By: Tonytough
Chin was another dummy, when Vic &a Gas told him Black Pete was a rat he refused to act on it due to greed

Not to mention Sammy already told some
of chin's top underlings they shouldn't take a chance considering they found few bodies in his building

Yet he skated on any charges. That was telling in itself

And still Chin did not act. He not only put himself at risk but his underlings and other families due to pure stupidity

Yet I keep reading on here how smart Chin was. Most of the people who say that are just regurgitating what Sammy wrote in his book

Still, for years he managed to convince specialists he was crazy for real and that allowed him to stay on the streets longer. It's not that easy to make a psychiatrist believe you are crazy when you are not, takes some skill at least.


Willie Marfeo to Henry Tameleo:

1) "You people want a loaf of bread and you throw the crumbs back. Well, fuck you. I ain't closing down."

2) "Get out of here, old man. Go tell Raymond to go shit in his hat. We're not giving you anything."
Re: John Gotti Sr overly critisized [Re: Aces] #918525
08/16/17 06:49 PM
08/16/17 06:49 PM
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Uk
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Tonytough Offline
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It's really not that hard TBH especially when ya facing life....

My friend used to work for a medical tribunal as one of the doctors. And he said the Vietnamese have mastered the art of feigning mental illness

U wouldn't believe how many fake mentally disabled people there are that are claiming state income

From time to time I see in papers how the state caught so and so feigning a
physical disability

For every one they catch there's prob thousands more that don't get caught. Chin just happened to be one of them

Re: John Gotti Sr overly critisized [Re: salvi62] #918526
08/16/17 08:46 PM
08/16/17 08:46 PM
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Posts: 3,021
far, northwest
Binnie_Coll Offline
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Originally Posted By: salvi62
I read (before they locked him up in supermax)that when Gotti was in jail awaiting his trial that he was idolized by many of the black "gangsta" types that were awaiting trials for things like drug dealing, strong arm robbery etc.

He told them all never to take a plea, make the government come after you and spend their money on a trial.

The next paragraph was how all these stupid kids who listened to Gotti who could have gotten 5 year plea deals got 20 to life for taking their shit to trial.

Somebody on here should know......

Did they ever catch Don Carlo on a bug????

John Coffey pretty much tells it like it is when it comes to these guys. Coffey spoke about how "cagey" Carlo was and how stupid Gotti was.

Sal


joe coffee knew about gotti, he often said gotti had the IQ of a mothball. look how he destroyed the gambinos, their money went down from 100 million a year to 20 million, sammy flipped because he heard gotti on some tapes, that's all on gotti, but, the worse thing the moron ever did, was making his son boss, the dog wasn't fit to run a two-bit pizzeria, much less an LCN family.



" watch what you say around this guy, he's got a big mouth" sam giancana to an outfit soldier about frank Sinatra. [ from the book "my way"
Re: John Gotti Sr overly critisized [Re: Aces] #918527
08/16/17 08:52 PM
08/16/17 08:52 PM
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Hollander Offline
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To become boss of the Gambinos you had to hold sway among the ranks, but he was no Tommy Lucchese.


"The king is dead, long live the king!"
Re: John Gotti Sr overly critisized [Re: Aces] #918627
08/19/17 01:27 PM
08/19/17 01:27 PM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 5,094
Moe_Tilden Offline
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Posts: 5,094
Anyone read Mystic River?

The wife of the character Sean Penn played in the movie reminds me of John Gotti's wife.

If you've read the last few chapters of the book you'll know what I'm on about.

Come to think of it, the way the character Sean Penn played in the movie justifies his destructive actions reminds me of John Gotti and his supporters.


I invoke my right under the 5th amendment of the United States constitution and decline to answer the question.
Re: John Gotti Sr overly critisized [Re: Moe_Tilden] #918633
08/19/17 04:21 PM
08/19/17 04:21 PM
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Posts: 3,056
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JCrusher Offline
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Originally Posted By: Moe_Tilden
Anyone read Mystic River?

The wife of the character Sean Penn played in the movie reminds me of John Gotti's wife.

If you've read the last few chapters of the book you'll know what I'm on about.

Come to think of it, the way the character Sean Penn played in the movie justifies his destructive actions reminds me of John Gotti and his supporters.

Good Point moe. Im guessing you are talking about the favara incident in relation to mystic river. As bad as john gotti was his wife was just as bad when it came to that incident. I mean i sympathize with a parent losing a child but she went too far. Furst she beats the man with a bat while he was trying to apologize for a unfortunate accident then she basically told her husband to torture and kill this guy. Im sure gotti was planning on doing it anyway but his wife wanted it done too

Re: John Gotti Sr overly critisized [Re: JCrusher] #918645
08/19/17 08:59 PM
08/19/17 08:59 PM
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These people were human garbage

Why is this even a conversation?

Re: John Gotti Sr overly critisized [Re: Tonytough] #918668
08/20/17 01:29 PM
08/20/17 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted By: Tonytough
Yet I keep reading on here how smart Chin was. Most of the people who say that are just regurgitating what Sammy wrote in his book


Savino was his biggest mistake, other than that he was the smartest boss of his day and this is confirmed by a lot of people who would know.

From Selwyn Raab's Five Families:

- John Pritchard, the FBI's Genovese Squad supervisor, who went on to hold high city and state law-enforcement posts, tipped his hat to Gigante's evasive abilities. ''Without a doubt, he was the smartest, most scheming Mafia figure to come down the pike in my time. There seemed to be no way to get him.''


FORTIS FORTUNA IUVAT
Re: John Gotti Sr overly critisized [Re: BillyBrizzi] #918673
08/20/17 02:18 PM
08/20/17 02:18 PM
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Posts: 1,075
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alicecooper Offline
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I'm fascinated by this whole thing just as we all are or we wouldn't be here, but...

If I spend a lifetime being a scumbag and wandering the streets in a bathrobe mumbling gibberish to myself and not wiping my ass after I shit...and fill my other time outsmarting jerk off shrinks into thinking I'm crazy...and with the threat of life in prison constantly over my head...

...would you call me smart too? I didn't fucking think so.

Let's not redefine the term intelligent. Less of a Dumbfuck is what we're really talking about here and we all know it. They say anyone can pull a trigger---maybe it's true, maybe it ain't. And forgive me if I don't put much stock in what some cop says. You think he wants to admit his life's work was nabbing people who couldn't make a grilled cheese sandwich? A cop calling a monster smart justifies the cops existence. A self fulfilling prophecy.

Re: John Gotti Sr overly critisized [Re: Aces] #918767
08/23/17 12:26 AM
08/23/17 12:26 AM
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Gotti was boss from December 1985 to December 2002. He was arrested in December 1990 and got life in 1992. How much command and control did he have when he was arrested for the final time? Not much. He basically had a 5 year run as Boss and most of his 5 years he was in jail or on trial.

As Joe Massino said about Rusty Rastelli, "How smart can he be if he spent half his life in jail?"

Couldn't the same be said for how successful Gotti was as Boss?

His legacy is undeniable. He's an icon. Which is really what he wanted. So he did what he wanted to accomplish. Be a legendary icon and famous mob boss. The cost was life in prison.

Last edited by Ryan98366; 08/23/17 12:34 AM.

GangsterBB Snitches get stitches!
Re: John Gotti Sr overly critisized [Re: alicecooper] #918770
08/23/17 03:29 AM
08/23/17 03:29 AM
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RollinBones Offline
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Originally Posted By: alicecooper
I'm fascinated by this whole thing just as we all are or we wouldn't be here, but...

If I spend a lifetime being a scumbag and wandering the streets in a bathrobe mumbling gibberish to myself and not wiping my ass after I shit...and fill my other time outsmarting jerk off shrinks into thinking I'm crazy...and with the threat of life in prison constantly over my head...

...would you call me smart too? I didn't fucking think so.

Let's not redefine the term intelligent. Less of a Dumbfuck is what we're really talking about here and we all know it. They say anyone can pull a trigger---maybe it's true, maybe it ain't. And forgive me if I don't put much stock in what some cop says. You think he wants to admit his life's work was nabbing people who couldn't make a grilled cheese sandwich? A cop calling a monster smart justifies the cops existence. A self fulfilling prophecy.

If you do all that and control a very powerful criminal organization at the same time I'd definitely consider you to be pretty intelligent. Chin was extremely dedicated, the guy was like an evil genius.

Last edited by RollinBones; 08/23/17 03:30 AM.
Re: John Gotti Sr overly critisized [Re: Ryan98366] #918771
08/23/17 07:43 AM
08/23/17 07:43 AM
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also at the cost of many lives taken and sending to prison dozens of his guys getting caught on tape several times in his life..he is an icon .in the worst sense..he did one thing good ..a good bid..well lets listen to the marion tapes..not such a good bid either..seems every visit his family made he abused them also..gotti destroyed his blood family and his omertà family..genie and john carnig are still paying for his brilliant call..go to trial...he died a horrific death at the hands of a vengeful govt. maybe one in the same both evil at times..i remember made guys quietly happy when he got life, they felt like they just got released from a bid...

Re: John Gotti Sr overly critisized [Re: Aces] #918837
08/24/17 03:36 PM
08/24/17 03:36 PM
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DiLorenzo Offline
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Chin was a dummy because he made one bad decision in all his years as a top boss ??

Even the feds and prosecutors speak about him with respect...He was far from a dummy !!

Re: John Gotti Sr overly critisized [Re: DiLorenzo] #918851
08/24/17 08:56 PM
08/24/17 08:56 PM
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alicecooper Offline
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alicecooper  Offline
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Calling these guys smart is like calling them good businessmen.

It's easy to pull things off when the first drawer in your toolbox has a tool named murder and the second drawer has terrorism, and so on and so forth. And even then they still manage to fuck it up half the time. And if the Feds would have paid better attention to the wiretaps they'd have had him way earlier. He still died in prison.

Smart? I respectfully disagree.
Less of a Dumbfuck than most of the other Dumbfucks? I'll go along with that.

You need a yardstick to measure distance, not a weight scale. And vice versa. He spent his life in and out of prison and with the threat of imprisonment over his head. His greatest "accomplishment" in life is that he was head of a ruthless, murderous crime organization for a long time, only because he created his own prison in faking mental insanity over three decades. He was a piece of shit for his entire life. And if he was smart, he sure found an amazing way to spend 50 or 60 years wasting those smarts.

Re: John Gotti Sr overly critisized [Re: Aces] #918878
08/25/17 01:21 PM
08/25/17 01:21 PM
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Dwalin2011 Offline
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Dwalin2011  Offline
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alicecooper
but I don't get it, are we talking about them from a moral point of view or just about their abilities? Because it's completely different; a criminal may be smart or even a genius, but still a scumbag. The fact he is clever and uses the intelligence to commit crimes makes him morally even worse. Somebody may be a n.1 in his abilities and even a genius like nobody before, and still being a scumbag.

And it doesn't apply just to "normal" criminals (members of the "underworld") imo. Like for example, in history there were plenty of extremely capable generals among the conquerors of new lands, yet they make both Gotti and Gigante put together and multiplied by 100, look like angels, if counting the number of innocent civilians killed.

I mean, my point is that, saying somebody is smart doesn't mean giving him credit as a person. Somebody may be a "smart" bastard deserving a lethal injection at the same time.


Willie Marfeo to Henry Tameleo:

1) "You people want a loaf of bread and you throw the crumbs back. Well, fuck you. I ain't closing down."

2) "Get out of here, old man. Go tell Raymond to go shit in his hat. We're not giving you anything."
Re: John Gotti Sr overly critisized [Re: Dwalin2011] #918904
08/26/17 12:25 AM
08/26/17 12:25 AM
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alicecooper Offline
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You are right I should not have brought the morality angle into it but it's hard not too because in his case it goes hand and hand with prison, trials etc.

I've said all I can say on it. To me he's a moron.

Re: John Gotti Sr overly critisized [Re: Aces] #918963
08/26/17 10:03 PM
08/26/17 10:03 PM
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night_timer Offline
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When it comes to big mouths, Gotti didn't do himself any favors in that regard by hanging with Quack Quack. In the end Gotti seemed more interested in business suits than anything. I mean, a daily visit to the barber ?!?


"It was all crap, right up to the moment he died" - an investigator's opinion - and epitaph - of John Holmes (Johnny Wadd)

"Drunk words are sober thoughts" - Anon.
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