There was once a thread where people ranked their top 10 families, of all time, and the years which they were most powerful. In these lists, nearly all of the families and their respective time periods were understandably out of New York and Chicago. So, what would the top 10 outside of NY and Chicago be?

It's hard to determine which family is higher than another and some are a toss-up, but anyways this is what I came up with:

1. Detroit family - Zerelli era (Commission seat + very strong union ties)
2. Magadinno family - Old man's era (Commission seat + very large territory)
3. Philly family - Bruno's era (Commission seat)
4. New Orleans family - Marcello's era (Huge territory + national importance)
5. Trafficante family - Santo jr's era (Very affluent + national importance)
6. New England family - Patriarca's era (Strong leader + very stable organization)
7. Cleveland family - Scalish era (strong presence in Las Vegas)
8. KC family - Civella era (strong presence in Las Vegas)
9. Pittsburgh family - LaRocca's era (Big territory, but not very significant on national level)
10. Bufalino family - Russell's era (Wealthy family but small in size)

I agree with your listing and as you know I'm partial to Pittsburgh.
However after Cleveland lost the Mahoning Valley to Pittsburgh I would place them ahead of Cleveland but still behind KC:

7. KC Family
8. Pittsburgh Family
9. Cleveland Family

I put only 5 families because the others are similar: very strong until the 1980s and after defunct or very small.

1. Chicago Outfit - 1950s to 1980s (Commission seat + controlled the biggest Las Vegas casinos)
2. Magadinno family - Old man's era (Commission seat + controllerd much of the heroin traffick from Canada)
3. KC family - Civella era (strong presence in Las Vegas)
4.Detroit family - Zerelli era (Commission seat + very strong union ties + very stable family survived the 1980s without internal wars)
5.Philly family - 1977 to 1989 (Commission seat+controlled Atlantic City and South Jersey rackets)

Thanks for the input, Brizzi and FOH.

If Marcello and Trafficante really were involved with the JFK assassination, I'd probably rank them higher. In fact, I might move Marcello higher no matter what.

You're cheating, Furio! No Chicago!

Wasn't Phily heavily involved with fight fixing in the 1940s, too? Some people think "Tommy Como" in Raging Bull is partly based on both Frankie Carbo and the Philly guy who was into boxing, forget his name.

Anyhow, thanks for responding, Furio.

Honestly, I believe New Orleans and Tampa were very small time, so I might move New England higher. As soon as Marcello and Trafficante died their families essentially died wih them. I mean, there was some small time stuff after but pretty insignificant. I'm not doubting that they could sit down back in the day with bosses of the Five Families, but if the NOLA and Tampa families were really that powerful they wouldve continued to thrive long after Marcello and Trafficante.

The truth is neither group had that many members. If they wouldve kept making members they might've lasted longer. Surprised some of the made guys in New Orleans didn't get involved in Cocaine and Heroin during the 60's-80's. The Zips should've setup a branch down south.

Thanks for the response, Stubbs.

I'm looking for families at their peak, so New Orleans and Tampa at their peak should count, imo. A lot of historians believe they whacked a president for crying out loud. Trafficante was also a go-to guy for the CIA when they wanted to get rid of Castro. That's been proven.

Frank ''Blinky'' Palermo

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Palermo

Thank you. There's a really good article from a boxing site about him and Frankie Carbo. I'll try to find it.

Why not ? Chicago controlled most of the Las Vegas casinos,ruled on the West coast and had strong union ties and is still strong even had only 30-40 made men.

Outside of New York and Chicago, get it?!

Madonna mia!!! Sometimes you just hand these guys their ammunition on a silver platter Fur

Alright, fine. We'll include Chicago.

10 most powerful families outside of NY, and you can only list Chicago once. You can not list Chicago as 1 through 10. [arching eyebrow toward Furio]

I listed 5 families out NY with chicago as first.

Surprised the new jersey family wasnt just absorbed into 1 or 2 of the nyc familys. Or the what evers left of rhode island just be a big crew for the genovese. I seen the colombos made a boston guy deleo even had him as a street boss and merlino had a few guys in boston. So just make it a satellite family. Theres 8 families left besides chicago. Nyc 5 phily boston and the decav.

I know, Furio. Thanks. I was just messing with you.

pmac, I've always wondered how the Jersey family existed, too. New York and Philadelphia mobsters have always operated practically with impunity in North Jersey. I'm sure most crews in the Genovese Jersey faction are bigger than the entire DeCavalcante family. The early bosses like Sam the Plumber must have been really useful to people in NY. Some people wanted there to be a separate family there, so there is.

I'd switch Buffalo with Detroit. Magaddino was far more significant nationally than Zerilli. What he did with Bonanno Zerilli could have never done. Magaddino had more pull within the Commission and he was also the overlord of Italian organized crime in Ontario plus most of the province of New York.

I also place Los Angeles on the same level as Cleveland.

Los Angeles had a lot of people from Cleveland. The Milanos. Frattiano. LA recruited a lot from midwest families. Nick Licata was from Detroit.

Los Angeles Family had the problem that in LA there wasnt a huge italian popolation so was forced to made people from all the family. Today the salvatore Gambino'son Thomas run what left for the gambinos.

There actually was a significant Italian population in LA and in all of California in the early 20th century. The gangsters among this population were connected to the black hand mobs, and the syndicate, i.e,, Luciano, Lanskey, et al, didn't want anything to do with them. Jack Dragna was a black hander that the syndicate didn't want to work with. His family was only recognized by the commission because of John Roselli. If I'm not mistaken, San Francisco and San Jose were straightened out at the same time, considering some bay area and LA guys were related by marriage, and I believe Tommy Luchesse was related to one or two LA and bay area guys by marriage as well. If not for John Roselli and Tommy Luchesse, I doubt the California families would have ever existed. The black hand mobs there would have likely been wiped out by NY and Chicago if they got in the way of the rackets NY and Chicago sought there. Ironically enough, California ended up being Chicago and NY's turf anyway. Now it's just pretty much Gambino, as Furio points out. The remaining Dragna guys are either legitimate, or answering to the Gambinos.