I don't think I have ever posted a what if or a (theory) thread but this has a possible answer.

If Philip Leonetti don't flip " and cut Nicky's legs out , the Chin and Manna and Westside stands behind him .

They obviously had the most to lose financially and having a extra vote .

So how would the family have laid out there would have been a few acting Skippers and a acting streetboss or acting boss and under boss appointed .

Nicky Jr. would be the ears and eyes for his father and no doubt would have been made .

Nick was just to slow or head strong to have done this before we all know what happened.

I have not seen anyone talk of this and what would the family have looked like .

I'm no expert, but Phil was raised lcn and new the innerworkings of his uncle's work. My question is, was he respected or did everyone think he was handed everything. In his interview he quotes his uncle "...and you have to keep killing..." if he had that mentality I'm sure the "young Turks" would have died young and there would've never been the uprising that occurred. Also, he might have been more reasonable than his uncle and not have killed everyone on a whim. From what I gather he has a business sense unlike his uncle. He could have seen the big picture and nut have been as out in the open as his uncle. Someone posted a scarf inc. business card with Phil as president and Chris as vp, so at one time Chris was intrigued with lcn and Phil could've used the bad blood in his favor. Isn't he a successful business guy now?

Sorry Serp, misread your post. Do you think Chin would've stood behind Jr? At this point he might have had enough of Scarfo's ways and just go with one of the old timers. That name alone brought too much attention. They didn't let Salvie take his fathers spot. He was more suitable than jr. in comparison. Regardless the Stanfa war Fucked things up and set Philly back with all of the continuation of out in the open murder attempts and rats.

No not Jr. but the Westside had a lot going on with the Philly family and that was severed when Phil flipped, he cut Nicks legs out from under.

But there were plenty of guys on the street in order to keep money flowing what made guy would have been put in place .

It would not of been a North Jersey guy and it would of had to been done.

I am surprised that many still don't know what was going on between late 89 and 93 .

I think skinny would have had a big headache had this been the case..BUT I don't automatically assume that all of the other young guns would have had that same headache

None of them were made , I don't think they would have did what they did if a acting boss from Philly was put in place by Nick/Chin they had a lot going up in north jersey and other places .

Obviously the Westside wrote it all off with Phil flipping! They figured let them all get what they deserve.

Because the Gambinos wound up making the calls.

All of it very unusual , especially the Westside losing all those rackets that they were tied with with the Philly family .

I know they weren't. What I meant is they bitterness that developed with them and stanfa wouldn't have developed with that regime, they all would have been fine

Semi related question: In Phil's book he talked about guys like Chickie didn't understand that it all went through NY and you had to have NY with you. How could guys in Philly not understand that, especially after Tony Bananas? And did that Genovese dbl cross of Tony Bananas not give any pause to Scarfo or was his bond with Manna that strong?

Yet another insight: the Westside had an iron grip on Philly and signed off on multiples murders until you got to Scarfo in control. Why did Joey and his guys not give a shit about the Gambinos?

In Anastasia's book The Goodfella Tapes, it says that Shotsie Sparacio was emerging as the new boss until Stanfa took hold.

He was under Phil back in the day , never seen him but there must of been more.

That time frame there's not much on it .

I'm guessing the Merlino faction ignored the Gambinos because Gotti only backed Stanfa because the Cherry Hill Gambinos were pushing for it. Sanfa didnt really have any power on the streets, he was sort of an outsider. Like bringing in some wannabees like Veasey to do dirty work, as opposed to having his own capos or soldiers do it. But, they also had been decimated after Leonetti flipped.

Odd that Stanfa couldnt have leaned on John Gambino to intervene and resolve the Merlino dispute. John Gambino was the Binos leasion with Riina and the bosses in Sicily. But maybe Stanfa simply wasnt cut out for the top spot.

A bit off topic, but here's a new pic of Faffy post release

It was hands down the worst era for all the families . But for the Westside to abandon all rackets tied to the Philly family .

Then the Gambinos got shit on by a street gang and pushed there man out of town .

I get the Chin turning his back on Nick cos of all the turncoats in the family.

But to let a non made streetgang to operate and take what they shared before is just not the way of the mafia.

Skinny knew what was what and who had what , his father was UB and sure he kept him completely filled in .

Why does the Chin not put a north jersey guy in as acting ? I just don't see him bending let alone be taken.

I often wondered the same thing about the older guy's,like Sindone,Casella etc..didnt they see the writing on the wall ,let alone just 2 b involved,they should have known the protocol..maybe these older fellas only knew how 2 count..Mooks.

Pretty sure Scarfo put in a Piccolo as acting boss around this time.Maybe not.It is just another example of the brass balls joey merlino has.knowing the Gambinos put in Stanfa and he didn't care.merlino is the last true cosa nostra

He's a gangster through and through, but I absolutely don't see him as the embodiment of Cosa Nostra.

So when exactly was Joey Merlino made?

BillyBrizzi,I sure didn't mean to put him in class with a Gigante or Gambino.I like your wording actually,"a gangster through and through".Could not agree more.To that extent I feel he is one of the last

In September 1992 John Stanfa made Joey Merlino and Mikey Chang.

This goes back to everything I say about this time.

At least 3 of the five families wanted Gotti gone , the one that would have given Stanfa the okay to sit in Philly .

But no commission approval and at minimum three of the families would not have approved Stanfa , the one that made Skinny !

I think it all was defunct by this time , because if it was not there would of been a boss or acting boss put in place by the Westside, Luke's , Colombo's because they would not have gone along with anything Goti said or did.

What a difference a year makes ! 80 years all shot to shit in a year or two ...

Patty specs was a name mentioned as was piccolo during that time. After scarfo went down philly became similar to the decalvacante crew. A separate family that was basically an extension of another family. NY controlled philly and still do to this day.
Philly was much more autonomous during th scarfo era despite being closely alligned to bobby manna. This is my perspective. Some others may disagree.
As far as north jersey, they earn and lay low. Joe scoops is ( i hate to say retired) but enjoying life with his family. Joe,was a big earner especially shylocking and he was respected despite what some have said in the last. Patty specs loved him. It is true that he was very tight with mikey P. Mike P was very respected and well liked and was a fuckin genius when it came to lcn politics, truth be told, he is lucky to be alive though. The brooklyn crew wanted him dead and all the hype about killing jersey is true. To say that the jersey guys werent worried is total bullshit; they were.
The story about casso's crew being afraid of ricciardi and always coming up with excuses is not true, he was laying very fuckin low and very hard to find. If they did, it would of been the end of ricciardi. Casso's guys were much more afraid of him than anyone in jersey.

It seems it all started to fall apart around the time Joe Salerno Sr,the father of the federal witness was shot.Leonetti states in his book that the heat from this was immense.The Riccobene war was going on at this time too.And not long after testa killed.I know that Leonetti has been seen around Atlantic City.I wonder if Salerno,Caramandi or Tommy Del ever went back

I remember that well ... the Feds were all over friends and extended family not just made guys and associates .

But that still did not have a impact on why Nick did not have a made guy don't why he had Jr. doing what he was doing,cos lots of people were taking it personally .

Especially Skinny and the guys that were under all the guys just locked up ! And his father shelved and I am sure Jr. was collecting Chucky 's old stuff .

It did not take much for them guys that were working there ass off that did not get made yet to rebel .

Skinny could not of went after a made guy from the family! It was because it was never done by Nick or the Chin .

There was still guys on the street in jersey Philly and North Jersey that would been enough to make a crew and it would of held the family together.

I can not get with what the Philly family had going with Luke's and Westside that that they did not protect their interests .

There just seams to be no answers it's crazy that there was nothing done but Goti putting Stanfa in and no one said a word but Skinny !

Serpiente,I have always read your post and find them interesting.To read your first hand knowledge has been of not just the Salerno thing but all things you contribute.And I understand what you saying on Merlino being an unmade guy going after Stanfa,who Gotti personally put in place.I got to give it to Merlino he is the real deal

Just saying it's all suspect , and if it was a couple short years prior what do you think if a rouge guy took a LCN family and a couple of NY family rackets.

I mean come on the guy made a cop !!! And a possible non - Italian !

I don't think Skinny was paying tribute if Teri wanted him gone . It's just all suspect Under the rules they put in place for 70 years .

But what do I know , if they did nothing them selfs !

Skinny has balls and is a stand up guy , but why bother if you don't uphold the thing you believe in .

Maybe I am just from a different generation and you do something you do it right.

Leonetti's book also says that even as an 18,19 yr old kid Joey Merlino would scoff at the powers to be.Leonetti states he wanted to kill Merlino around 1983 or 84.When scarfo was in prison during this time Chuckie Merlino would send money from Philly and each time it would be short.Leonetti says no way Chuckie was taking it that it had to be Joey Merlino instead.Joey it seems would cause all kinds of problems at the casinos in Atlantic City as well.So he was very bold even as a teen

[quote=MemphisMafia]Leonetti's book also says that even as an 18,19 yr old kid Joey Merlino would scoff at the powers to be.Leonetti states he wanted to kill Merlino around 1983 or 84.When scarfo was in prison during this time Chuckie Merlino would send money from Philly and each time it would be short.Leonetti says no way Chuckie was taking it that it had to be Joey Merlino instead.Joey it seems would cause all kinds of problems at the casinos in Atlantic City as well.So he was very bold even as a teen [/quote

I wish he would write a second book and give details, cos he toned it down for regular folks and editors I guess .

Even if they weren't made yet, Merlino and co. were the next generation of Philly mobsters. That was there claim. Stanfa was the "outsider" appointed by NY while they were homegrown. And the NY families were starting to crumble by 1992. They weren't going to fight a war in Philadelphia with all there problems back home. Merlino, on the other hand, had no reservations about using violence regardless of LE attention or instability.

How many times you gonna say this? You remind me of Jimmy Two Times from Goodfellas.

I'm gonna get the papers, get the papers.

Yeah man !