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Why the trafficante family died ? #907885
03/03/17 06:16 AM
03/03/17 06:16 AM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 7,236
naples,italy
furio_from_naples Offline OP
furio_from_naples  Offline OP

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Posts: 7,236
naples,italy
The trafficante was based in Tampa and Ybor city where there was big italian communities and dont think that after trafficante jr dead Lo Scalzo dont tried to rebuilt the family and until the Raffa suicide in 2000 there was even a Miami faction of 19 made men. So what happened the Gambino and Genovese simply take it place or something ?

Re: Why the trafficante family died ? [Re: furio_from_naples] #908098
03/05/17 09:39 PM
03/05/17 09:39 PM
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 7
Tampa
8
813mafia Offline
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813mafia  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 7
Tampa
The Trafficante family died because there were no younger guys to take the place of the older guys who were dying off. No recruits. Although Tampa once had a vibrant Latin community in Ybor City filled with Cuban and Italian immigrants in the early 1900s all the way up to the 80s those days are gone. The old Italian families are still here but the sons of made guys are all legit and their grandsons and greatgrandsons go to private schools.
The Tampa family was always small and had an inner circle of "made" guys and an outer circle of some very loyal Cuban associates such as Johnny Rivera and many others. Many made guys even spoke Spanish. When you grew up in Ybor as a Sicilian, you spoke Spanish in the streets, English in school, and Sicilian at home.
As far as made guys are concerned, there are definitely less than 10 left, very old and they spend their days drinking cafe con leche and complaining about their many doctors appointments. I use quotations with the word "made" because the concept of being "made" in tampa is a grey area. The Sicilians who controlled illegal affairs in Ybor and surrounding areas were a very small group of families from the Santo Stefano region of Sicily. In Tampa, in order to be apart of "our thing" you were either related to the Trafficantes, Decidues, Cacciatories, Lazzaras, Antinori's, Bedami's, Alessi's and a few others or you werent. Period. It was a small enough group where you didnt need a ceremony to tell you if you were a member or not and definitely didnt need anyone to tell you the rules or that Santo Trafficante was the boss. I am not 100 percent sure but am pretty sure that they didnt care for formal making ceremonies.

Vincent Loscalzo did his best to keep the family together but he more or less just tried to keep the italian community together legit or illegit activities.They continued to gamble amongst themselves and had the occasional score here or there. He is still a very respected member of the Tampa community and lives in the northern part of tampa as does most everyone who has ybor roots.

The steve raffa thing is a little bit overhyped. Although he probably did have a crew of 19, i can bet anything that non were made in the sense of a making ceremony. His crew was a bunch of lowlifes from miami and the northern states and not one person other than raffa had any connection to the small tampa italian commuinty. Do not believe anything that rat John Mamone says about being made at Malios restaurant. I bet he did have dinner there like he says but most likely either met with Loscalzo or Santo jose(the boss's nephew) or frank albano and was simply put on record with raffa. John mamone is not from tampa and dosent know a damn thing about ybor city or the italian community.

John Gotti jr and john alite did come down here with a bunch of misfits and did some small time things across the bridge in st pete and clearwater, although they did own a club on hillsbourough ave that was as trashy as a club could get.

Alite probably did meet with Santo Jose like he says, and santo jose told him he didnt care what he did(basically that he didnt want anything to do with him), but told him to stay the fuck away from the old ybor families. Thats exactly why alite mainly operated on the other side of the bridge in st pete and clearwater

If Santo Trafficante was alive today, he would have told Alite and jr gotti to fuck themselves. Santo didnt even like Sonny black when he came down in the early 80s and told him to stay on the outskirts of tampa and away from ybor families just like his nephew santo jose told alite and jr gotti decades later. Donnie Brasco and Sonny Black operated with the bonanos in pasco and polk counties which is about 45 min outside of ybor city, and alite operated in pinnellas county, across the bridge. Tampa is in hillsbourough county and both bonannos and gambinos told to stay out of it.

Ybor these days is filled with a bunch of freaks with tattoos all over themselves and gigantic holes in there ears. The italians have moved to northern tampa and cubans to west tampa. Carmines restaurant is on 7th ave where you can see loscalzo eating occasionally and la tropicana cafe which was a big gambling place is still there and you can sometimes see old timers there. The italian club across the street is practically a museum, and the famous columbia restaurant is basically a tourist attraction.

If Santo Trafficante was alive and he walked down 7th ave in Ybor City he would probably vomit

Re: Why the trafficante family died ? [Re: furio_from_naples] #908109
03/06/17 07:06 AM
03/06/17 07:06 AM
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 281
baldo Offline
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baldo  Offline
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Great read, 813. How do you know so much about Tampa? Thanks!

Re: Why the trafficante family died ? [Re: furio_from_naples] #908113
03/06/17 07:38 AM
03/06/17 07:38 AM
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Posts: 905
blueracing347 Offline
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blueracing347  Offline
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727 here 813. Northern 727, not Pinellas. Did you grow up back in those days or did you do your research? I want to know if Sonny Blacks club Kings Court was decent or if it was a shit hole. Holiday is a shitty area today. Back in the 70s and 80s it was inhabited by old people. They literally moved the place and now it's a church. I read an article that when Teafficante met with Black at the Tahitian, (which is now a crack motel named the holiday resort or something similar), he never gave Sonny permission and Sonny lied that he did.

Re: Why the trafficante family died ? [Re: furio_from_naples] #908117
03/06/17 10:26 AM
03/06/17 10:26 AM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 7,236
naples,italy
furio_from_naples Offline OP
furio_from_naples  Offline OP

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Posts: 7,236
naples,italy
Thanks for the explanation 813mafia, it was very interesting. so tampa was a mix of Sicilian and Cuban guys. very very interesting. I read that tampa and Ybor city doesn't had irish and Jew communities and that apart the prohibition the big bussiness was the bolita.
I think that if the LoScalzo menaged to keep unite the family,the trafficantes would be like the outfit or detroit with a core group of italians with a large presence of non italians associates.

Anyway do you know what did trafficante jr during the cocaine epidemy in miami ? Made relations with Cubans or colombians drug traffickers?

Last edited by furio_from_naples; 03/06/17 10:27 AM.
Re: Why the trafficante family died ? [Re: furio_from_naples] #908120
03/06/17 11:44 AM
03/06/17 11:44 AM
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 7
Tampa
8
813mafia Offline
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813mafia  Offline
8
Associate
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 7
Tampa
Im born and raised here so I've grown up and brushed shoulders with few people, combined with much research.

@blueraising347 Santo Trafficante did give Sonny permission to open the gambling place, and Trafficante even supplied card dealers for Sonny. Sonny met Santo I think only a couple times. Sonny mainly did business with Benny Husik who was running gambling for Santo at that time. One of those times he met Santo was Pappas restaurant in Tarpon Springs, and ironically Vincent Loscalzo drove Santo their at the same time Donnie Brasco drove Sonny there. Sonny tried to give Trafficante a greeting card with some cash in it the second time in a hotel room as a sign of respect, but Santo is smart as they get, and declined it right there (Sonny almost shit himself) but Santo knew that if this every came up in court that he could honestly say that he never accepted anything from Sonny. This later did come up in court and Santo was acquitted in the whole Donnie Brasco trial.
@furio Tampa never had much Irish and Jewish immigrants. All Sicilian Cuban and Spanish(directly from Spain). Bolita is a Cuban gambling game. It was originally run by Charlie wall but the bolita wars occured in early 1900s and trafficante family came out on top. The Sicilian here would rig the game. In bolita there is a bag that has almost like pool balls in it. Each one has a number and people would bet on which number was picked out of the bag. The Sicilians would freeze the ball that was supposed to be picked so they guy knew which one to grab or make the ball supposed to be picked heavier than the rest
As far as the cocaine epidemic in Miami in the 80's I don't believe trafficante had any connection at all. He was very old at that time and so we're all the made guys. The younger generation of the bedami family in Tampa at that time was flying in coke from Colombia I think Angelo bedami III. He wrote a book about it. I didn't read much of it was more interested in the mob part of the book not the Colombian coke parts.

Re: Why the trafficante family died ? [Re: furio_from_naples] #908134
03/06/17 02:48 PM
03/06/17 02:48 PM
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 281
baldo Offline
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baldo  Offline
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813, you see "Live by Night" the Affleck movie?

Re: Why the trafficante family died ? [Re: furio_from_naples] #908135
03/06/17 02:59 PM
03/06/17 02:59 PM
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 7
Tampa
8
813mafia Offline
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813mafia  Offline
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Tampa
I have heard of it and heard people talking about it but I have not seen it yet. Excited to do so though

Re: Why the trafficante family died ? [Re: furio_from_naples] #908138
03/06/17 03:06 PM
03/06/17 03:06 PM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 7,236
naples,italy
furio_from_naples Offline OP
furio_from_naples  Offline OP

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Posts: 7,236
naples,italy
813mafia so in the family the core group was compost of the trafficantes,the diecidues ecc but there was no capos or something ?

Re: Why the trafficante family died ? [Re: furio_from_naples] #908160
03/06/17 07:26 PM
03/06/17 07:26 PM
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 7
Tampa
8
813mafia Offline
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813mafia  Offline
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It was more a linear organization than a hierarchy.

Everybody was shooting everyone during the bolita wars but after that the Trafficantes were the boss. First Santo Sr. and then Santo Jr. All the other families in the core group were pretty much equal, and rank really just depended on how close you were with the Trafficantes. Each family kind of had a senior member representing them, such as the Bedami's had Ciro Bedami, the Lazzaras had Augustine Lazzara, the Scagliones had Al and Nick Scaglione, and Diecidues had Alphonse and his son Frank Diecidue. All of those guys had sons and cousins and nephews who would report to them and then the senior member(who typically grew up with Santo Jr and was related in some way) would speak to Trafficantes if needed.

You could technically call those guys "capos" but again i dont think they cared much for formalities.

Frank Diecidue and Santo Jr were actually pretty close rivals. The Trafficantes and Deicidues had tensions going back a long time all the way to their fathers day and it carried over to their sons. Frank Diecidue in the 70s and 80s ran the Castaways Lounge on Kennedy Blvd. It was actually owned by Joseph Lazzara who was the son of Augustine Lazzara but Frank ran the place. Frank had a large crew and probably the only crew that could threaten the Trafficantes. Santo Jr, who spent the majority of his time in Cuba and Miami, basically spread the word around that when he is not in Tampa, Frank Diecidue is the man to see. Santo did that to keep the peace, so i guess that might be considered an underboss position but i doubt it was that formal.
Castaways lounge later became Lazzara liquor store and was still in operation until it was sold a few years ago.

Re: Why the trafficante family died ? [Re: furio_from_naples] #908161
03/06/17 07:32 PM
03/06/17 07:32 PM
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 7
Tampa
8
813mafia Offline
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813mafia  Offline
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Tampa
Correction: Joseph Lazzara was actually the younger brother of Augustine not his son.
Sorry wasnt thinking straight

Re: Why the trafficante family died ? [Re: 813mafia] #908164
03/07/17 12:09 AM
03/07/17 12:09 AM
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 3,021
far, northwest
Binnie_Coll Offline
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Binnie_Coll  Offline
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far, northwest
Originally Posted By: 813mafia
Correction: Joseph Lazzara was actually the younger brother of Augustine not his son.
Sorry wasnt thinking straight



813 mafia, you are very well versed on tampa, what did you think of the book about santos trafficante that was written by his attorney ... frank ragano.



" watch what you say around this guy, he's got a big mouth" sam giancana to an outfit soldier about frank Sinatra. [ from the book "my way"
Re: Why the trafficante family died ? [Re: 813mafia] #908166
03/07/17 12:19 AM
03/07/17 12:19 AM
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 889
North Jersey
ItalianIrishMix Offline
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ItalianIrishMix  Offline
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North Jersey
Originally Posted By: 813mafia
The Trafficante family died because there were no younger guys to take the place of the older guys who were dying off. No recruits. Although Tampa once had a vibrant Latin community in Ybor City filled with Cuban and Italian immigrants in the early 1900s all the way up to the 80s those days are gone. The old Italian families are still here but the sons of made guys are all legit and their grandsons and greatgrandsons go to private schools.
The Tampa family was always small and had an inner circle of "made" guys and an outer circle of some very loyal Cuban associates such as Johnny Rivera and many others. Many made guys even spoke Spanish. When you grew up in Ybor as a Sicilian, you spoke Spanish in the streets, English in school, and Sicilian at home.
As far as made guys are concerned, there are definitely less than 10 left, very old and they spend their days drinking cafe con leche and complaining about their many doctors appointments. I use quotations with the word "made" because the concept of being "made" in tampa is a grey area. The Sicilians who controlled illegal affairs in Ybor and surrounding areas were a very small group of families from the Santo Stefano region of Sicily. In Tampa, in order to be apart of "our thing" you were either related to the Trafficantes, Decidues, Cacciatories, Lazzaras, Antinori's, Bedami's, Alessi's and a few others or you werent. Period. It was a small enough group where you didnt need a ceremony to tell you if you were a member or not and definitely didnt need anyone to tell you the rules or that Santo Trafficante was the boss. I am not 100 percent sure but am pretty sure that they didnt care for formal making ceremonies.

Vincent Loscalzo did his best to keep the family together but he more or less just tried to keep the italian community together legit or illegit activities.They continued to gamble amongst themselves and had the occasional score here or there. He is still a very respected member of the Tampa community and lives in the northern part of tampa as does most everyone who has ybor roots.

The steve raffa thing is a little bit overhyped. Although he probably did have a crew of 19, i can bet anything that non were made in the sense of a making ceremony. His crew was a bunch of lowlifes from miami and the northern states and not one person other than raffa had any connection to the small tampa italian commuinty. Do not believe anything that rat John Mamone says about being made at Malios restaurant. I bet he did have dinner there like he says but most likely either met with Loscalzo or Santo jose(the boss's nephew) or frank albano and was simply put on record with raffa. John mamone is not from tampa and dosent know a damn thing about ybor city or the italian community.

John Gotti jr and john alite did come down here with a bunch of misfits and did some small time things across the bridge in st pete and clearwater, although they did own a club on hillsbourough ave that was as trashy as a club could get.

Alite probably did meet with Santo Jose like he says, and santo jose told him he didnt care what he did(basically that he didnt want anything to do with him), but told him to stay the fuck away from the old ybor families. Thats exactly why alite mainly operated on the other side of the bridge in st pete and clearwater

If Santo Trafficante was alive today, he would have told Alite and jr gotti to fuck themselves. Santo didnt even like Sonny black when he came down in the early 80s and told him to stay on the outskirts of tampa and away from ybor families just like his nephew santo jose told alite and jr gotti decades later. Donnie Brasco and Sonny Black operated with the bonanos in pasco and polk counties which is about 45 min outside of ybor city, and alite operated in pinnellas county, across the bridge. Tampa is in hillsbourough county and both bonannos and gambinos told to stay out of it.

Ybor these days is filled with a bunch of freaks with tattoos all over themselves and gigantic holes in there ears. The italians have moved to northern tampa and cubans to west tampa. Carmines restaurant is on 7th ave where you can see loscalzo eating occasionally and la tropicana cafe which was a big gambling place is still there and you can sometimes see old timers there. The italian club across the street is practically a museum, and the famous columbia restaurant is basically a tourist attraction.

If Santo Trafficante was alive and he walked down 7th ave in Ybor City he would probably vomit








I believe that the only reason Gotti would respect Santo's nephew's request is just because Gotti had some old school in him. He respected the rules and elders (except for Big Paul of course. :o).

Who possibly would stop Gotti and the Gambino's if he said, "I am operating here and there is nothing you can do about it!" ?

Commission was basically on its death bed at the time.

Re: Why the trafficante family died ? [Re: furio_from_naples] #908175
03/07/17 01:21 AM
03/07/17 01:21 AM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 865
M
MightyDR Offline
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Thanks for the insight 813mafia

Re: Why the trafficante family died ? [Re: furio_from_naples] #908177
03/07/17 02:34 AM
03/07/17 02:34 AM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,650
Chicago
C
CabriniGreen Offline
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CabriniGreen  Offline
C
Underboss
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,650
Chicago
@813

That's a great post my man...


I was just posting about Trafficante in the Anastasia thread, made a comment about how a lot of his muscle was actually Cuban.

I also like how you highlight the family structure. It's like a very early blueprint for the type of families that are dominating OC today. Blood relatives, in control of smuggling routes, and illegal commodities, more so than dominating a territory, engaging in basically wholesale extortion.

And like you point out, it's more about how close you are to the relatives, than any actual " Made" guys. You are more so " Born into it" , rather than a meritocracy for violence and criminal acumen.


I was just re reading Silent Don, it touches on a lot of what you posted about, all those Sicilian families, and their ties to drug trafficking going back to the early thirties. It's a good read, have you checked it out?

@ irishItalian

The Trafficante family strength was always controlling the smuggling routes, in the Caribbean, not so much dominating the territory in Florida.

Enterprise syndicate vs Power syndicate...

Last edited by CabriniGreen; 03/07/17 02:36 AM.
Re: Why the trafficante family died ? [Re: furio_from_naples] #908178
03/07/17 02:41 AM
03/07/17 02:41 AM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,650
Chicago
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CabriniGreen Offline
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Chicago
If you try to gauge the strength by counting the number of guys, or comparing it to like NY, it just doesn't give you an accurate read...

Re: Why the trafficante family died ? [Re: furio_from_naples] #908195
03/07/17 11:30 AM
03/07/17 11:30 AM
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,841
S
SinatraClub Offline
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SinatraClub  Offline
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The Trafficante family was on it's final days heading into the mid 80's-early 90's period. I doubt they had much control of anything at that point.


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