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Re: the electoral college.
[Re: Binnie_Coll]
#898331
11/12/16 07:25 PM
11/12/16 07:25 PM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,466
No. Virginia
mustachepete
Special
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Special
Underboss
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,466
No. Virginia
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As was hinted above, if they counted only the popular vote then strategies would change, and we don't really know how things would turn out.
In a practical sense, eliminating the College would make presidential elections fabulously expensive, even by current standards, because the state boundaries do let the candidates identify safe, swing, and lost areas and decide where to allocate money.
As mentioned above, the College makes fraud less beneficial, because its effect is restricted to one state. In 1860, Lincoln drew only about 25,000 votes in slave-holding states, with about two-thirds of those around St. Louis. That wasn't because no one there wanted to vote for him - it was because he was left off ballots and votes that were cast weren't counted. He was credited with less than 5% of the votes in those states, but the damage was limited to those states and Lincoln took the election winning all of the states that honest elections.
People assert that Lincoln's election was a fluke because there were four candidates in the field, but he took more than 50% of the vote in states with 167 electoral votes, out of a total of 303 available.
"All of these men were good listeners; patient men."
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Re: the electoral college.
[Re: Faithful1]
#898353
11/12/16 11:36 PM
11/12/16 11:36 PM
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Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 3,021
far, northwest
Binnie_Coll
OP
Underboss
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OP
Underboss
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 3,021
far, northwest
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The Founders created the electoral college to give all the states a fair shake at electing a president. Without it, many states wouldn't have representation at all. That was the point of founding the United States -- that we have many different states that are united together.
Anyway, there will (probably) never be an amendment to get rid of the electoral college. In order for a constitutional amendment passed it would require approval of 38 states -- including a lot of those states that would lose out by passing the amendment.
Getting rid of it also brings us closer to a tyranny of the majority. This is like Binnie's neighbors getting together and with a 51+% of the vote decide to confiscate his house. To avoid this, the Founders believed in checks and balances, wise men, and the rule of law.
If you want fairer representation within the electoral college system then get rid of "winner take all" and make it proportional. Winner take all isn't fair because a candidate can win with 51% of the vote and the other voters are totally disenfranchised. Currently every state except Maine and Nebraska have winner-take-all elections. It's a much easier fix than a Constitutional amendment. getting rid of winner take all seems like a good option. I hope there is talk in congress of new proposals, getting rid of the current system.
" watch what you say around this guy, he's got a big mouth" sam giancana to an outfit soldier about frank Sinatra. [ from the book "my way"
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Re: the electoral college.
[Re: Binnie_Coll]
#898357
11/13/16 01:22 AM
11/13/16 01:22 AM
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 5,602
Yunkai
afsaneh77
Mother of Dragons
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Mother of Dragons
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 5,602
Yunkai
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Hello everyone, long time since I've been here. Personally I don't think electoral college is a bad thing. In fact, for the reasons mustachepete mentioned, it's a great thing. I've always liked how the US's election results come out before all the votes have been counted. You can't change the rules when they aren't in your favor. And many people didn't vote because they knew they live in a state that their vote didn't matter, so you can't say Clinton would've won the popular vote if the rules were different.
She wasn't a likable or charismatic person. The fact that Obama beat her in the primary, or someone like Bernie Sanders who had almost no chance in the beginning, but at the end was putting her campaign in danger goes to show how she was not popular within the democratic party, let alone the country. Democratic party had greater and younger potential candidates like Cory Booker, Castro brothers, heck, even the old Elizabeth Warren, but she made sure they wouldn't run to ensure her nomination. She just was not going to win. But I doubt even if you shouted this into her face, she would have accepted it.
Last edited by afsaneh77; 11/13/16 01:23 AM.
"Fire cannot kill a dragon." -Daenerys Targaryen, Game of Thrones
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Re: the electoral college.
[Re: Binnie_Coll]
#898393
11/13/16 11:55 AM
11/13/16 11:55 AM
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,442
Alfa Romeo
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,442
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is it possible to change this abomination known as the electoral college? it's already cost the democrats two elections.
can the people get enough resolve to finally recognize the democratic principal as THE POPULAR VOTE !! I don't agree with majority rule or mob rule, which is what pure democracy truly is. Instead we have a republic thing going on which allows the minority to veto things that might interfere with their most basic and innate rights. Democrats might have lost this election to the unpopular vote, maybe, we shall see, but Democrats definitely did not lose the election to Bush Jr. due to the electoral college. That was election theft and the Supreme Court intervening. From what I understand, if a full recount were permitted, Al Gore would have won not only the popular vote, but also the electoral college majority.
"For us, rubbin'out a Mustache was just like makin' way for a new building, like we was in the construction business."
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Re: the electoral college.
[Re: Alfa Romeo]
#898404
11/13/16 01:51 PM
11/13/16 01:51 PM
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Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 3,021
far, northwest
Binnie_Coll
OP
Underboss
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OP
Underboss
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 3,021
far, northwest
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is it possible to change this abomination known as the electoral college? it's already cost the democrats two elections.
can the people get enough resolve to finally recognize the democratic principal as THE POPULAR VOTE !! I don't agree with majority rule or mob rule, which is what pure democracy truly is. Instead we have a republic thing going on which allows the minority to veto things that might interfere with their most basic and innate rights. Democrats might have lost this election to the unpopular vote, maybe, we shall see, but Democrats definitely did not lose the election to Bush Jr. due to the electoral college. That was election theft and the Supreme Court intervening. From what I understand, if a full recount were permitted, Al Gore would have won not only the popular vote, but also the electoral college majority. they are still counting votes, and Hillary is up 1.8 million votes, with a million more to be counted in calif. that's a huge lead, and reflective of the no-sense electoral college. a stolen presidency?
" watch what you say around this guy, he's got a big mouth" sam giancana to an outfit soldier about frank Sinatra. [ from the book "my way"
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Re: the electoral college.
[Re: Alfa Romeo]
#898406
11/13/16 01:52 PM
11/13/16 01:52 PM
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,841
OC, CA
Faithful1
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,841
OC, CA
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Democrats might have lost this election to the unpopular vote, maybe, we shall see, but Democrats definitely did not lose the election to Bush Jr. due to the electoral college. That was election theft and the Supreme Court intervening. From what I understand, if a full recount were permitted, Al Gore would have won not only the popular vote, but also the electoral college majority.
That's not true at all. Following the decision the Washington Post and the Miami Herald did their own investigations and concluded that Bush would have won. Neither newspaper has a history of being pro-GOP, by the way. And don't forget that Gore wanted to prevent the military ballots from being counted, and they generally are more GOP-friendly.
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Re: the electoral college.
[Re: Binnie_Coll]
#898411
11/13/16 02:36 PM
11/13/16 02:36 PM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,466
No. Virginia
mustachepete
Special
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Special
Underboss
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,466
No. Virginia
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I'm not really replying to the poster, but for next person who comes along: when the system was made up over 200 years ago, hardly anyone lived in cities and California was sort-of subject to Spain. You can argue the merits of the Electoral College system, but the notion that people back then were designing the system to steal elections today is just ludicrous.
Last edited by mustachepete; 11/13/16 02:38 PM.
"All of these men were good listeners; patient men."
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Re: the electoral college.
[Re: Binnie_Coll]
#898412
11/13/16 03:03 PM
11/13/16 03:03 PM
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Joined: May 2014
Posts: 4,401
Footreads
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 4,401
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is it possible to change this abomination known as the electoral college? it's already cost the democrats two elections.
can the people get enough resolve to finally recognize the democratic principal as THE POPULAR VOTE !! I don't agree with majority rule or mob rule, which is what pure democracy truly is. Instead we have a republic thing going on which allows the minority to veto things that might interfere with their most basic and innate rights. Democrats might have lost this election to the unpopular vote, maybe, we shall see, but Democrats definitely did not lose the election to Bush Jr. due to the electoral college. That was election theft and the Supreme Court intervening. From what I understand, if a full recount were permitted, Al Gore would have won not only the popular vote, but also the electoral college majority. they are still counting votes, and Hillary is up 1.8 million votes, with a million more to be counted in calif. that's a huge lead, and reflective of the no-sense electoral college. a stolen presidency? Don't forget binnie they are going to steal your social security away from you as well. Instead of trying to win the small states during the election instead just campaign in the big states. Fuck the small states not enough people to give a shit about. Just try to get votes in the big states And no where else. To bad when your SS gets taken away your going to starve to death no more pizza for you but their is always dog food.
only the unloved hate
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Re: the electoral college.
[Re: Faithful1]
#898440
11/13/16 06:17 PM
11/13/16 06:17 PM
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,442
Alfa Romeo
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,442
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Democrats might have lost this election to the unpopular vote, maybe, we shall see, but Democrats definitely did not lose the election to Bush Jr. due to the electoral college. That was election theft and the Supreme Court intervening. From what I understand, if a full recount were permitted, Al Gore would have won not only the popular vote, but also the electoral college majority.
That's not true at all. Following the decision the Washington Post and the Miami Herald did their own investigations and concluded that Bush would have won. Neither newspaper has a history of being pro-GOP, by the way. And don't forget that Gore wanted to prevent the military ballots from being counted, and they generally are more GOP-friendly. Maybe the truth is somewhere in the middle... FactCheck.Org
"For us, rubbin'out a Mustache was just like makin' way for a new building, like we was in the construction business."
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Re: the electoral college.
[Re: Giacomo_Vacari]
#898444
11/13/16 06:46 PM
11/13/16 06:46 PM
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 883
Belmont
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 883
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Get rid of the Electoral College and there will be an unbalanced system. Meaning a candidate would only have to campaign in cities instead of the countryside and win. That is unfair. This system was put in place for a reason. Equal representation. If you have a problem with this system, then I suggest you fix the gerrymandering going on in districts. Agree and this is why the electoral college was created.
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