Hells angels. I live down the street from a dive bar they frequent i see patches from states all over the place. I dont know if the ones around new england are deep in the meth biz like they are in cali. But there highly organized and allways beat people up.

i agree on some points. but,there are unwritten rules and codes of conduct even among the underworld and the cartels break them all.it's a documented fact,zetas and other cartels have raped and tortured women. here's just 1 well known example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_San_Fernando_massacre
and target innocents on a large-scale. other oc groups in the past have killed innocents,but it's usually an exception to the rule, because they werein debt,or at times collateral damage. the cartels widespread use of torture,and beheadings,puts themon par with islamic terrists. what would you consider the "plazas"? isn't it essentially a complete takeover? it's true theycorrupt police and govt in order to establish themselvesin these plazas.so,while cartels haven't completely taken over the govt,i think it's fair to say the cartels have free reign in the plazas. there's been several instances of vigilante groups popping up,in response to the cartels imposing extortion and intimidation tactics on the local populace.so no,they haven't managed to completely takeover the entire country but like terrists they fight challenge the govt's authority,you've posted several examples of shootouts between cartels and mexican army,or marines.cartels,like the taliban,isis,undermine the govt.organized crime gorups generaly don't

plenty of criminals in 1% world. Some not all. Have never disputed that.

Cartels are. They are powerful on the west coast, with minor scrimmages. A friend from Washington state said that two rival cartels have been fighting each other, one I am sure is the Sinaloa, and the other is Zetas, I believe. They are also powerful in Arizona, New Mexico, Texas, and have influence in Gulf of Mexico region, and other cities in the North.

It's true that the Mexican cartels pose a threat to the legitimatazy of the government to some extent(like every OC group does) but like I said the Mexican cartels don't behead and display bodies of their rivals to terrorize or intimidate the public. Terrorist organizations like the Taliban (do and it's often civilians not police or soldiers they captured), they do so to make an example of people that don't follow their form of government or Sharia Law. When I mean take over I meant the Taliban and other terror organizations take over by force and replace and take over the local government with Sharia Law to implement to the daily lives of the citizens living under their control. The Mexican cartels don't do that, they just want to operate with as little interference as possible. The average everyday citizen living in these 'plazas" isn't affected unlike living under the Taliban where women can't go to school, have to be covered up, can't leave the house, men can't shave their beard etc. and when someone breaks their law(Sharia) they get punished for it and sometimes it means death. What I am trying to say is that the cartels don't implement some sort of law unto citizens like the Taliban and the reason for the violence and public display of bodies are for different reasons and objectives. Not all "plazas" the cartels have free reign and it's mainly on their main "plazas" or head quarters, they still get tackled by state, federal and army/marines though they have corrupted and sometimes infiltrated the state, federal police, and army in some cases except the Marines which makes the crackdown on the cartels less effective than it should. Also not because they have free reign doesn't mean they don't have rules, several captains and bosses in the Gulf Cartel have been killed by the same Gulf Cartel for kidnapping and raping women like "Cleaofas" a Gulf Cartel boss. He raped a young women for days and got whacked because of it. There are many more instances of things like this happening at Borderland Beat. Also the cartels don't target civils, the San Fernando massacre got international headlines but what they didn't report is that at that time Los Zetas and Gulf Cartel were fighting Allende, Ciudad Mier, San Fernando and other small towns that lead to the east part of Monterrey which the Gulf Cartels control. The Los Zetas were trying to cut off the highway that connects Monterrey with Reynosa(Main Gulf Cartel plaza) so the Gulf Cartel started to recruit Central and South Americans as "estakas" (cartel soldier units), "halcones" (informents) etc. but mainly sicarios or "estakas" to reinforce Allende, Ciudad Mier and San Fernando from being lost to Los Zetas and thus losing the east part of Monterrey and losing connection to Reynosa. The immigrants that were being hired by the Gulf Cartel to battle Los Zetas were using buses, at that time Los Zetas were stopping buses and checking passengers to see if they had evidence or intel of them working for the Gulf Cartel. There was even a video Los Zeta sicarios capturing Gulf Cartel sicarios that happened to be immigrants from Central America. There was even a video of a local Zeta captain that was present when the San Fernando massacre occurred and he reveled that the immigrants of the San Fernando massacre were working or going to work for the Gulf Cartel. At the time "Kilo" was the plaza boss of San Fernando and the Zeta captain "Tweety" was one of the captains in San Fernando along others. All of the evidence given the time and fighting in those towns and the fact that the Gulf Cartel was using immigrants as sicarios or "estakas", the interrogation of the immigrant sicarios by Los Zetas and the testimony of "Tweety" point out that the immigrants killed in San Fernando were most likely working for the Gulf Cartel.

Edit: I forgot to mention is that the cartels don't attack Army and Marines for the sake of killing them but they do it as a response to protect and save their boss from being captured. It's mainly the Los Zetas and Gulf Cartel that do that, Sinaloa doesn't really do it and neither do they display beheaded bodies or bodies in general in a public part where it gets attention. These tactics are mainly used by the Gulf Cartel and Los Zetas.

Edit 2: The cartels do have some free reign to some extent but still have to watch out for the federal police, army and marines.

@Smeary

Those are some good post, I knew you had good info on the cartels lol.....




As far as the violence, first off, the Mexican cartels are very similar to prohibition era gangs in that they are essentially substituting for like, Multinational corporations. This is power that rivals the legit establishment. Dude think of Escobar in his prime offering to pay off a NATIONAL DEBT!! Imagine if a group was capable of this in the US? Pay off a couple Trillion? It seems ludicrous, but you have an equivalent situation in a nation like Mexico. I'm sure they have tremendous influence on the border states as far as corruption getting drugs IN the country. And let's not even speak of the level of corruption they most likely have in Central and South America. Entire countries.

The violence reminds me a lot of the type of stuff that happened in Sicily when they were a narco-mafia. You had the Coleonesi murder people on rivals territory, to PROVE that they didn't control their territory. You guys like Bontade murder public officials, JUST TO PROVE TO EVERYONE that they could do it too, not just the Corleonesi. So violence becomes a tool, like paint, for redrawing the map of power, with the country as the canvass, and the citizens as the audience. The cartels have to prove to rivals, the public, the government, military, even most likely their own members WHO REALLY HAS THE POWER. They blew up a warehouse? We'll make a billboard with half a dozen hanging bodies off a highway so EVERYONE CAN SEE IT. Oh they hung a dozen bodies off the highway? Ok, well decapitate a dozen people and ROLL the heads in the MOST POPULAR NIGHTCLUB. Ohh, they did what? Okay well..... And you see how this shit just escalates...

I think I made this comparison before, it's like the cartels are like Coke and Pepsi. Huge multinational corporations. How do you win hearts and minds? Advertisement. That's how I see the cartels displays of brutality. It's like a real life commercial for their criminal brand, a kind of grotesque form of graffiti.

There is a great chapter about this type of stuff in John Dickies book about the Sicilians, about what happens when the legitimate government fails to establish a monopoly on the use of violence. If an organization is able to operate over a length of time with impunity, eventually the citizenry will come to accept it as the more legitimate body.

I think the Calabrian presence in NY seriously enhances American LCN...

It depends on which chapters we are talking about, HA in Quebec and Europe are serious people with direct links to Colombia for example.

Right on time.

This thread title is "strongest oc in the US?"

Things change radically with mc's once outside the United States. There are paid informants and narcs in every big club in the US. Always. $$$ TONS of government money pouring into it here.

I don't want anyone to start crying, but putting bike clubs in the same category as the cartels, LCN, etc in the United States in 2016 is just ridiculous and delusional.

Technically the cartels arnt really in the us. They just youse all there cousins in the us to move drugs till they get popped and deported. Thats why i said the hells.

I got a little Angels tale. This happened at the Squire in Revere. It was a Tuesday. Amateur Night. Which was basically the pimps from Roxbury/Dorchester/Mattapan would bring their girls over to dance. Not many regulars there but there were a few. So the Angels come in and set up at the end of the bar near the front door. One of the regulars, who happened to be a former active associate of the local lcn faction who was now in his 80's ,walked down to the other end of the bar near the bathrooms and approached one of the girls who was now sitting at a table after dancing. He goes up to her and offers her a good chunk of change to come back to his house with him (god bless him). Hearing what he said her pimp gets up and starts sticking his finger in the old pisan's chest. The guy is standing his ground when the pimp slaps him. The slap is heard and the Angels send down one of their Prospects to "clear that shit up" . Now this being before the infamous shooting in there by B.A. there were no metal detectors and the Prospect was carrying a hammer. He goes up to the pimp, cracks him good with the hammer, the pimp's posse (I use that word lightly) gets up and all hell broke loose. Bing bang boom tables chairs glasses bottles shit flying everywhere . Pimps and posse down and out and the Angels all flew out the door, hit their bikes and headed for Lynn.

I new some lady who went to church i should start she was mexican and her husband to but she wore the pants they had a good drywall biz but they sold bud on the side this is way up her in mass. Some reason they could get you a half ounce of some ok mids this was 10yrs ago but they could also get your 10 20 100 pounds. They were from mexico city i believe they loved to gamble at foxwoods but they gone for a long time. He was a very hard worker. The Brazilians and him have problems over underbids for the services. Been so long but they were i guess cartles right? They did the hand to hand shit all the way up. Trump builds this wall will see whose the strongest oc. Probaly is the italians in nyc.

Like 2yrs ago they caught el chapos cousin in new Hampshire like a hour from were i live importong a shit load of coke think he got 15yrs i forgot already but his lawyer had a good defence the coke was for america it was for europe or Canada and it never touched ground here. I no montreal only like 6hrs up threw vermont and all that green mountains i wonder if the montreal bikers are with the guys around new englnd .

the strongest criminal groups in the states are mostly the domestic ones (italian mafia, bikers, black and latino gangs)
mexican cartels supply local gangs but i said they don't seem to control a specific territory, they have just some middleman linked with local gangs, they don't say dometic groups what to do, they jusy sell the drugs... it's like to say colombians are the strongest in mexico because they supply mexican cartels

I don't see how the cartels are the most powerful in US. The US is where the big revenue comes from. I'm no expert on cartels but obviously their job is to get the drugs over the border and to US cities that they supply. Making them rich and powerful in Mexico. But they're still based in Mexico.
I'd still consider the Mexican Mafia a powerful OC group in California. Power and influence over street gangs within the US.

M2w you hit the nail on the head and southcal to. The strongest organized crime group is the italians and bikers in the north east and i guess on the west coast its mexican mafia and all there off shoots and gangs.

This is really a bad comparison to what the Mexican cartels do in the U.S vs. the Colombian cartels(supply). For the most part, the Mexican cartels get their cocaine in Colombia from the Colombian cartels themselves, the Colombians don't traffic the cocaine to Mexico, the Mexican cartels do the trafficking since they control the trafficking routes out of Colombia and into Central American and Mexico(and the U.S). The Colombian now a days just produce the cocaine and just traffick it mainly to Europe, they are just suppliers(to Europe) and producers not distributors and wholesalers like in the 80s. The Mexicans are producers(heroin, meth and weed), traffickers, distributors and wholesalers. They basically control most of the distribution and wholesaling in the U.S and parts of Canada. They aren't just suppliers. Many gangs are linked to the cartels and some do hits for them. So they do have power on the streets via intimidation, kidnapping, murder or torture.

Why many people consider the Mexican cartels the most powerful in the U.S is simply because they control the distribution and wholesale of drugs in the U.S and the fact they have establish these distribution and wholesaling networks through out the U.S says something. Sure most of their power is based in Mexico but like I said they control the distribution and wholesaling in the U.S, have set up businesses to launder the money back to Mexico, etc. The fact that that a foreign group(s) have managed to do that says something and they maintain via monopoly of the drug trade and intimidation. All of the domestic groups in the U.S are local and at best regional except the Mexican cartels and this includes the Mexican mafia, AB, LCN etc. See where I am getting at?

Cartels position in the drug market aside. Speaking domestic groups that originated in the U.S.

California would be split by the prison gangs, North & Central are Nuestra Familiar while SoCal is La Eme.

I'd have to guess Central California, at least in the valley, is dominated by Fresno Bulldogs. Since the housing crisis there has been so much migration throughout California's poorer areas that the gang landscape is probably changing practically by the week. Even LA and the bay area are changing a lot. Immigration and gentrification are changing California at a rapid pace.

I get it. It's also convenient that Mexico shares a border with the US. Of course there's spill over and influence. I just think it sounds misleading to say the Mexican drug cartels are the most powerful OC group in the US or parts of the US. It almost makes it sound like they're based here and they're not. It's not like the LCN families based in NY.

i don't think they control most of the distribution and wholesaling, in same southern areas maybe, in the rest it's mostly run by local gangs, mostly black and latinos... intimidation, kidnapping and murders are mostly carried out in mexico, not the states

Mexican cartels dont really blend in with society so infiltrating various sectors of the economy like the american mafia did would never happen.
Mexican cartels are in to drugs and thats it. The mafia was much more influencial and much better organized. These cartel guys idolize the mafia for whatever reason..

people must not realize the cops are a gang

Do you even live in the U.S?? LMAO at not controlling the distribution, then who brings in the drugs LMAO. You've proven yourself you don't know what you're talking about LMAO.

"These enterprises have spread throughout the nation in major cities such as Boston, Chicago, Los Angeles and Philadelphia, according to the feds. Los Angeles is a key strategic hub to facilitate the movement of drugs north and west, according to the DEA report, and the city is also used for the “subsequent smuggling of drug proceeds in the form of bulk cash back to Mexico"

"It appears that this will not change in the near future. The DEA, which functions under the Department of Justice (DOJ), predicts that “Mexican TCOs will continue to dominate the trafficking of heroin, methamphetamine, cocaine, and marijuana throughout the United States.” Here’s why: “There are no other organizations at this time with the infrastructure and power to challenge Mexican TCOs for control of the US drug market,” the DEA claims. “Mexican TCOs will continue to serve primarily as wholesale suppliers of drugs to the United States to distance themselves from US law enforcement. Mexican TCOs will continue to rely on US-based gangs to distribute drugs at the retail level"

So yes the Mexican TCO overwhelmingly dominate the distribution and whole sale of drugs in the U.S. The U.S gangs just redistribute to retail.

I see where you're getting at but the fact still remains. Obviously Mexican TCOs kinda cheat in these pissing contests because they aren't from the U.S and are from Mexico but again there is no group in the U.S that controls the drug market at a national level as the Mexican cartels.

The only reason why the LCN has penetrated various sectors of society is because law enforcement back then wasn't as sophisticated as today(and because it was a different country back then). Nothing to do with "blending" in. After the LCN is finished and is kinda really is now, there won't be any other group that will penetrate sectors of society as it did.

Mexican Cartels = Enterprise syndicate

Italian American LCN = Power syndicate

what i mean is that they don't control territories and probably they not have cells, but mostly mediators and middlemen... it's not like the cartels say a black gang what to do in its neighborhood, they just sell it the drugs but the distribution is in the hands of local gangs

I saw above someone mentioned the Hells angels no matter how many members a gang has you can get to them.

You just can't kill them all that's all.

I had a one time friend up in Harlem younger then me.

You know when you have nothing to do you find something to do.

Well one day we had nothing to do so Ralphie and I play a game of shot for shot. Kids game but not the way we played it. Not in the arm we played it in the face. He was going to go first. No way I was letting him hit me. So I just hit him first and kept hitting him until I knocked him out.

Well we were still almost friends.

Now the story he had a fight with a couple of angels they beat him up. So what does he do. The club was on east 8 street from first Ave in Manhattan

He wants revenge so he just watches the club house a guy comes out. The member has a girl friend or his wife and he has kids. So they live in a tenement. So Lanza just watches until the member leaves the apartment, and goes back to the club house.

Then he knocks on their apartment door when she answers and he kills everyone in the apartment. He is happy he got his revenge.

Ralph did something and a cop shot him in the face. Also in the stomach. He had crooked teeth and he was chubby no more. After that he had false teeth and was skinny.