Crash your views on old mafia neighborhoods comes from movies. You don't know anything about them. Neither does the person who said Pittsburgh was nice until blacks came there. Pittsburgh was never nice. lol. White people are just in denial of their own trash. It's like how you can't smell yourself, you know?

I grew up in the Brownsville section of Brooklyn, NY. It was a slum when I lived there, a slum before I lived there, and is a slum now.

What a bunch of nonsense Turnbull. Brownsville may have been dirt poor but it certainly was'nt violent and dangerous like it is today, you are spinning the truth. I know, my old landlords was from there.
In fact you just added credence to my assertion that poverty in and of itself doesnt cause violence. You just gave a great example of that when you reference
Brownsville Brookly in the 1950's.
So what the hell causes blacks to be so friggin violent and irresposnsible ???
Im also quite sure the reference to Pittsburg is flawed. He clearly states it was a great place to live. So what if it was poor or working class, it was a great place to live. Of course blacks moved in and what a shock, violence is rampant.
I feel bad for our friend from Pittsburg. Its an all too common story.

Let's be clear: I commented about a very specific part of Pittsburgh - Larimer Ave, the Little Italy of Pittsburgh with Labriola's and Pompa's grocery stores, and Stagno's Bakery, St Peter's and Paul's Church and school and Help of Christians church.

As I posted above, there are any number of pictures on the web of Larimer Ave in the 60s when it was still a largely Italian avenue and was a great and vibrant place to live. Look at it now; use Google Earth to cruise up and down that Avenue. If you do, you'll see that it is full of empty lots and dilapidated housing and businesses, and crumbling streets and sidewalks. Why? Was it the weather or earthquakes? The Italians left, the Irish left, the Germans left, the Slovaks left. Figure out who moved in.

Wow. The Italians and Irish on Larimer ave. even repaved their own crumbling streets and sidewalks. They didn't wait for government to do it, like the *current* residents...

Who knew?

Turnbull

Thanks for the input. Did the city government ever implement any type of programs or investments during your time in Brownsville?

You don't know amd don't base your opinion on what your landlord thinks. My dad grew up in Brownsville and he'd tell me of the horrors of the neighborhood. That was in the 1930s. It got even worse after that but it's a lot better now than it was then.

Your racist rants are really wearing thin, as is your welcome to post here. Just stop this nonsense already!

Crash is a fucking weirdo. He had a post a week or two back about how he likes to groom young black kids listening to boston.

First off, no one in the world cares about blacks more than i do. Im the only one on the front lines who is bringing the truth to the surface : degradation of the tradition black family, out of wedlock births, and irresponsible lifestyles,
Im at the forefront here and refuse to spin the truth to fit the narrative of liberal liars and excuse makers. Not me, i wont bend.

Could not have phrased that anybetter!awesome synopsis.

Ahh yes.. that very same thing is happening to certain neighborhoods (fishtown,kensington etc..) here in philly..thanx nets.

About 5 years ago I witnessed and video taped an act of vandalism at the apartment complex I was living in. I called the sheriffs. When they arrived, they were apathetic, and seemed more pissed at me for calling them than they were at what took place in the video I showed them. They told me my only options (get it, my options? evidently this wasn't their problem...) were to either complain to the apartment manager, or make a "citizens arrest", where the burden would be on me to produce evidence in court, and I could be sued for wrongful arrest, etc. They were clearly discouraging me from doing anything. So, I ended up just complaining to the apartment manager, these two young women that hang out and eat pizza all day. They may as well have punched themselves in the face.

Maybe I'm being cynical, nets, but I think the police protect the areas where there's lucrative real estate investment, and couldn't care less about other areas. In fact, I believe they discourage people in poor areas from calling them, and would just rather everyone killed each other. Of course they don't say this on tv. They always say they want the poor communities to get involved, but they don't mean it. The police protect the money. That's just my assessment based on my experiences.

You're full of shit if you believe that. You're also gone from here. Too disruptive.

Crash and burn.

Long time coming

You watched and videotaped a crime? Fucking useless waste of life. You could've made a change, but not only did you sit back and do nothing, you videotaped it? You must have not had a father figure in your life. Poor oak, just don't get it.

Yeah, I videotaped it. With a camcorder.

My point, you videotaped instead of doing something. Like I said previously, useless little creature you are.

Yes, I saw your anonymous internet "ooh, I would have done such and such if I were there" comment. I'm truly impressed.

Maybe the cops were hinting at you to go and do something yourself. But people like you,can't help yourself. Sit by and watch.

I think that's what the cops were doing, too, which was the basis of my criticism. They're paid an awful lot to just tell citizens to go out there and police their communities themselves. What exactly is it that police do, then? Thanks for helping me make my point, even if you were attempting another lame burn.

Oak,
Ok..good points. However, as I've said before here....people in authority positions in poorer areas know full well that they aren't held accountable for anything. If you are a police chief, school board president,etc in a poor city...you have built in excuses when your stats look bad AND you generally are in charge of a district where people don't vote or are active in politics.

Pretty cushy stress free high paying job. Crime is up or test scores are down? Hey....it was like that before I got here.
Lot easier than running a safe or high performing area and having to maintain good stats.

In poor areas, issues only get addressed during election years for appearances.

Having said all that, and having grown up in a city where they followed this credo to a T., I expect apathy from city hall but there's more than one way to skin a cat. I made complaints before to my sister's township about some problems. Nothing got done. So, I sent an anonymous letter to the head guys in charge of public safety and health for the STATE....and CC'ed the sit-on-his-ass mayor. I listed the complaints I made to the town and that nothing had been done to address the issue. About a week later , that township sent a notice to residents about their "new initiative" and they addressed the issue right away.

When areas become gentrified, generally you have people who vote and with more formal education moving in. They find ways to force the formerly sitting on ass people in authority to DO their jobs. And it's not just a handful of people battling the apathy, it's the majority of them.

I was actually expecting that response, Nets, and you're absolutely right. It can't be just me. It has to be an organized effort by several people. I was using a rather cynical, anecdotal example I guess to just vent about that incident. lol. It just makes me angry when you see cops on tv saying "people need to get involved", etc, knowing damned well they hate dealing with poor on poor crime, doing the paperwork, etc. Most cops are either in it for the plumb pay and benefits, or their hero mechanism is wired to save the hand that feeds them, the rich, the nice, clean neighborhoods, while all other victims are an annoyance.

Seriously? He videotaped an incident and got involved by calling the sheriff. There's been plenty of times that I've disagreed with Oak, but this time he did the right thing. He didn't "sit back and do nothing." Notifying the authorities is not sitting back and doing nothing, so I don't get the criticism. He took a proactive role, which is obviously more than a lot of others do. I'm glad he acted responsibly, and I hope that despite his disappointment with the sheriff's deputies that he would continue to be just as responsible. If that's not clear enough, irregardless of our many disagreements, I commend him for what he did.

Thank you, F-1.

To be honest, I did feel kind of bad that I didn't go out and try some of the judo I learned from a library book in the 5th grade. But, yeah, I think things are going to start getting really ugly if people just start combating property crime by taking matters into their own hands and not calling the police. That whole civilization thing. I happen to believe in it. Even still.

Gets was right that sometimes you have a light a fire under their collective asses to get them moving. His idea was a good one, but the whole system needs to work together.

There's a point in Broken Windows theory about minor property crime leading to greater ones since lack of enforcement on the small stuff leads to a perception of permission on the part of the violator/perpetrator. We don't have to agree with the entire theory to realize that parts of it make sense, and this is one of them. Putting this together with restorative justice (making the victim whole again) and you'll see some serious improvement.

Usually when someone tags property or steals election signs or vandalizes in some way, the response is there might be an arrest leading to a fine, unless it's severe, which results in jail. Nothing is done to help the victim, so it's a hassle for the victim to get involved if there's no benefit in it for him or her. What should happen instead is that the perp should be at least fined twice the cost of the crime, and that money (plus processing fees to the government entity) needs to repay the victim. If it's tagging, the tagger needs to buy paint and repaint the area he (they're usually males) tagged, then on top of that pay the victim twice the cost of labor and materials (ideally with an apology). That's restorative.

Police officers can be let down by the system too, which is why they don't push people to write complaints. If it's more trouble than it's worth it makes sense they're going to discourage involvement. The system needs to be changed first.

Following up on Gets's idea, you can go to city hall and push for changes in local laws. You can propose better laws. You can start petitions. I think as a liberal you can appreciate a restorative justice model that works to empower victims. Also learn about the local judges and help put in jurists that are fair. Just some ideas in keeping with the idea of civilization.

concerning citizens getting involed when a crime is committed, movie on Netflix about the 1964 murder of kitty Genovese who was stabbed to death outside her apartment, for years it was thought nobody called police, not true, 3 people called police, the killer stabbed the lady, she lied on the sidewalk, he had left and came back again,and finished her off,she screaming "ive'd been stabbed" over and over, the police arrived, but too late, much too late, so their official story was no one called, or came forward. good doc. made by her brother.

I had no idea who Kitty Genovese was until recently. Every now and then I'd search Amazon for books on the Genovese mafia family and books about Kitty Genovese would always show up in the search. Finally I just had to find out who she was and clicked on one of the links. I was floored. What a heart breaking story. I'll look for that documentary.

BC, you're right. Like many high profile news stories, that one has been misrepresented in the popular mind for decades. That's not surprising. There are probably still a whole lot of people who still believe that President Lincoln wrote the Gettysburg Address on the back of an envelope.