BDD, you think Ruben can pitch a baseball????

Yeah, and I think Ryan Seacrest could sink a few 3 point baskets!!!!

Well I do think Ruben can throw Clay from the mound to the plate without a bounce.

And regarding Ryan, I believe he is familiar with some rim shots

Too funny BDD!!

This is the wrong thread to be extolling the virtues of your victorious night last night but I do believe you woke up frisky and cocky this morning...

I just hope YOU are not the one familiar with Ryan's rim shots habits

Wow!! What an incredibl...y lackluster evening for the Top 2. I mean, the song selection was overall dreadful (except Bridge Over Troubled Water). Two of Ruben's songs sounded exactly the same, and he didn't blow me away at all. Hasn't for weeks. And when Clay's first song was an original, I was asking myself WTF he was thinking. It was okay, but not a song to blow everyone away for the LAST NIGHT of the competition! Trouble Water did, though. Ruben's gotta go - Clay rawked the house on his last song. He deserves to win!

1-866-436-5702!!

Tomorrow's gonna be very nerve-wracking... for most of the 2 hours!

I agree there. With all they hype and build up and they were good - but you figure for the last show - I don't know I think I heard better in other shows. Clay on the Bridge Over Troubled Waters was good but 'rock the house' - I don't know about that. Hey JGeoff, did it send shivers down your spine again that is probably the true indicator, maybe we'll see if LDV got goosebumps again.

What I probably found most interesting is at the very end when Ryan was giving their names for the last time - Clay got the majority of applause and you could even see that Ruben noticed and said something to him about it.

It is going to be very close - if I had to bet I would say I think Clay will squeak it out, but I wouldn't want to put any money down.

Actually, no, not tonight In fact, even though I think Ruben has the weaker voice overall, HE actually did at one point...

You wish....

Why is that? You forget to pay up to me on the Kimberly/Trenyce bet?

I agree with you JG, that was the most boring AI show I remember to date and I was thinking this is the best they've got? Who writes these "original" songs?

But I did love Clay's rendition of Bridge Over Troubled Water. One of my fave songs redone in a nice but different way. He was smart to opt to go last on the coin toss...he will make the all important lasting impression.

So here is my prediction and my conspiracy theory.

I heard today that Simon - who actually is the exec or owner of the record company that signs the winner to a contract has already agreed in principal to sign both to a contract. The only stip is that the winner gets their CD released first. So if that is in fact true - regarding the winner getting the contract tonight that is all mute. So I think Clay will now win because he is more apt at making the rounds on TV - talking up the AI experience etc - thus raking in more $$$ for AI than Ruben may. Ruben of course will go off and record his songs and hopefully do well at that - the man can sing.

In the end it all comes down to $$$ - and speaking of which tonight episode will basically be a 2 hour infomercial for all the products of AI year 1 and 2, the upcoming tour - the upcoming AI for Kids etc.

I really hope Ruben wins!

So now who is part of the fan club/mailing list? You seem to know a lot more about tonight's show than the average bear.

Oh, I forgot. Today is your cocky day.

I like the way you conveniently glossed over our bet. We can make it double or nothing. We can guess what color the judges will be wearing. Simon a black tee shirt, Dawg Randy wearing his light blue jean shirt and Paula? That could be the deciding factor. It's a sure gimme that she will do that stupid open-handed clap out in front of her.

And a sure bet that Kim (Pagaent Queen) Caldwell will get her mug on camera somehow during this finale.

Actually if you must know, I read it in the newspaper - no I believe you are probably the only one on the AI mailing list.

Yes, Paula will do that stupid seal clap, Randy will give a standing O at least once, and Simon will say something how they both made the show proud and both are a winner - cause he makes $$ off of both of them.

And finally I agree Kimberly Caldwell will be crying with the winner (Clay), right in the middle of the stage - and I'll even bet they show her mother - the one with all the plastic surgery in the audience at least one also.

No bet then? Damn.

Chicken.

I am not making this up-
I fainted during This Is the Night.
It was so freaking amazing, I almost died. Luckily, I was sitting on the couch when I fainted, and my parents thought I was faking so they didn't make me turn it off. I got so dizzy, and then just let out this little shrill shriek of "Clay!", and then blacked out on the couch.
Bridge Over Troubled Waters was amazing, too. I loved both of them so much.

Funny I thought he sounded OK, but I thought the song sucked - reminded me of a Disney song for a cartoon - but hey who am I?

If it affected you that much, maybe you should touch base with JGeoff and arrange and AI party - he get shivers when he hears Clay sing

JGeoff - hopefully that will teach you to taunt me about my last place standing in Fantasy Baseball.

Just wondering, when is the finale where we get to see who won it all?

JJ - tonight is the finale - 2 hours- dont know what time where you're at, but here it is 7 Mountain Time.

Thin Clemenza...you are truly a die hard Clay fan. No man has ever made me even FEEL faint without touching me. Did you see those women the other nights with the T-shirts that called themselves "Claymates"? You need one of those. The one woman who got up on stage and answered useless trivia about him looks to me like a certifiable stalker. But she got not one but two hugs from Clay. Would that make you faint too?

TC - I voted for Clay. Good luck. He will do that downward, eye-batting, shy look when he whispers thank you when he wins - just for you!! ....

And the Winner is...




















RUUUUUUBEN!!!!


Dammit - the contest was fixed! Clays voice is infinitely stronger, and, I guarantee a year from now Clay will be a superstar and Ruben will be singing in his church choir. But in any event - congrats, Ruben!

But - when they come out, I'm getting both CDs... they're both great (tho Clay is better )

Okay, let me first start by saying congradulations, RUBEN! I was pulling for him; hoping he'd win. I had a bad feeling Clay would... But, alas, Ruben did; and thank God he did. Now... As I was enjoying the aftermath of Ruben's victory over Clay... I got an Instant Message from someone.

As most of you may know, I'm on my vacation from the forums. I was enjoying it very much, relaxing, etc. All of the sudden, I hear Geoff's on the site saying it was fixed? One word for that...

EXCUSES!

How can you say it was fixed? Have you seen America's fascination with Ruben Studdard? Freaking Alabama has their own "Ruben Day!" On all the talk shows, you see people talking about Ruben. I think Diane Sawyer likes Clay more... But, besides that, even the celebrities love Ruben! Even my hero, Quentin Tarantino loves Ruben! Have you noticed the thousands of people with "205" shirts? Are you saying, even for a second; that Clay had more votes, and it was fixed? Utter bullshit! Don't make me verbally rape you, Geoff.

I can tell you this, Clay is awesome. I never liked him... But, I have to admit, the guy can fucking sing. But, to put down Ruben, just because he won, and say it was fixed... That's pretty rude. Both men deserved the win, and Ruben got it. Don't put him down for it; think positive for him. You can be upset; but saying it's fixed... You're being a sore loser! Just embrace the fact that Ruben is our new American Idol. Just like Clay, the guy can sing.

Now, with that... I'm heading back on my vacation from around here. If I hear anything more about you, Geoff, talking about Ruben... Don't think for a second I won't come storming back!

(Vercetti, you rat! )

You're not going anywhere, biotch, while this topic remains on the front page of the boards

First off, "it was fixed!" is a figure of speech - I didn't mean it literally. Sheesh!

I think it's amazing, out of 25 million votes, that there was only a 1,335 vote difference! After hearing that, I knew it could go either way.

Now, don't get me wrong: I don't dislike Ruben at all. I just believe that Clay is the better singer (by far) technically, and, has more of a teen idol presence on stage.

Ruben is always out of breath, and his range is limited. Even the past couple of weeks. And I think I must've been the ONLY one to notice his voice going out of tune slightly all over the place. Clay's voice is 100% perfect. He will be a HUGE Broadway star, so I'm not upset.

Sure, Ruuuben will get his $1 million contract. Good for him! He'll put out his album, and it'll sell well, and he'll be big (ahem). But I don't think he'll last. A year after that CD, as I said, he'll be back in his church choir. Clay, however, ten years from now, will have won a couple Tony Awards on Broadway. He'll be the next Marc Anthony (if he's already not bigger).

As I was telling Lombardi before the winner was announced, I won't be too upset either way, cuz they're both winners in my book. They'll both do well. I just think, IMHO, that Clay's career will outlast Ruben's - by far.

I just saw Simon on live TV, saying last night he thought Clay was going to win, but after watching the tape again, he changed his vote to Ruben. Interesting. But as he said, he's gonna be rich and famous regardless.

Lombardi - If you noticed, I'm not fighting you here; sorry to disappoint you

And Thin Clemenza... girl... I hope you recover!

Hey, I wanted to see some controversy!

BTW - I'm FOX-5 (NY) has been showing live after-party interviews this past hour. Of note...

1) Simon was asked if he ever got goosebumps listening to the singers, and he said his nipples get hard

2) Clay admited that he and Kimberly Locke could very well become roommates if they move out to LA (or wherever their careers take them)

You bastard! You told me you were gonna give me a fight! Thanks for the great debate! Sheesh!

You think Clay is better? Good. I think Ruben is better? Good. Opinions, opinions. We won't be able to change each other's; just voice them. So, there's not reason arguing about THAT... But there IS a sense arguing about Ruben's career length. Let me get to some other things first.

Ruben being out of breathe? Shit, man! Clay is less than one hundred fifty pounds! I heard somewhere Ruben is about three hundred fifty! What do you expect, man? Ruben is huge... He's bound to sweat and be out of breathe. He's in front of all of America, on stage, with lights shining on him, singing his heart out..You expect him to be in tact; shape wise? Also, adding he's three hundred fifty pounds! Give the dude a break.

Okay, I did not, at all, hear Ruben go off key. NEVER, within the last couple of weeks, did I. I doubt he has... Maybe that's just your mind playing games with you; since you like Clay. The man can sing. As far as him having a limited range? He has a smooth, jazzy, R & B type sound. It's called style, bro. That's Ruben's style. I don't recall Clay removing himself from the style he has. Ruben has, regardless of what you think or who you like, switched it up a little bit... Singing songs in different genres. Simon said one week Ruben's sound was sort of predictable... Did you see Simon the next week? Said he proved he can switch it up; while sticking to his style. And you KNOW that's true, when it's Simon saying it.

Now, what I forgot to comment on last time... Ruben being no where in a year? That seriously made me laugh. HAVE YOU NOT SEEN AMERICA'S FASCINATION WITH RUBEN STUDDARD? The man is already a star! He has a million dollar contract, is the American Idol, is going to be recording soon, and won over America... Nothing you say can take that away from him. And the man will be HUGE; and it will last. I can guarantee it. I just asked you, before you posted, though... If you'd like to bet. C'mon, in public, on the boards; I want me and you to bet. I bet you that Ruben will be climbing the ladder to stardom within the next year, or few years even, and not singing at his church. How much you wanna bet? Fifty bucks sound okay? We can go higher; 'cause I know I'll win.

I'm done. Thanks for your time.

As I said to you in IM, Clay is a better singer, technically. It's not subjective, it can be measured. Perhaps my ears are sensitive to off notes, cuz I did hear them. Often. As for being out of breath while he's singing - dude - I don't care if he's 350 lbs - if he's out of breath singing, that doesn't make him a good candidate for American Idol cuz he won't last more than 3 songs on stage, let alone 90-120 solid minutes! He'll need an oxygen tank up there. Why make excuses for him being out of breath all the time? That's not an opinion, that's a fact. And, that fact makes him a weaker singer.

Style. Yeah, you're right. They obviously have very different styles. But what was this contest looking for? An R&B singer or a Pop idol? And style and range have nothing to do with each other at all. There are R&B singers with incredible vocal range. Ruben isn't one of them.

And yes, America loves Rubben. He's an adorable 350-lb teddy bear. How can you not love that? Clay is a pencil thin geek, with probably quesitonable sexual preference - but none of that matters to me. What *I* was looking for in this competition was for the Best potential Pop idol. Not just the voice (tho that is most important), but the whole package. Clay's transformation to dork to teen idol, to me, show's that he has what it takes. As LDV has said, he's much better suited for television talk shows and all that. To me, I think Clay has the most markatable package, overall.

America has made their pick. A freakin' close one, too. So I respect that, and can live with it. (I'm really not as upset as you may think)

Now, for the last time, I will again say that I like Ruben. He's gonna be successful. I'm just saying, a couple years from now, America will know that Clay should've won, because he'll be more successful in his career.

As for betting on it - I'll bet you. Let me think about for what, or how much, or whatever.

And you're not done yet...

Geoff, you gonna answer me question?

Ahem, privately

edit- thanks

You can measure range, sure. But range is one, out of the many things, that makes you a good singer. Just 'cause Ruben doesn't go off into feedback solos with his voice, doesn't make Clay better. Again, different styles. Clay can go off with high pitches and what not; but do you for a second think he can do a low pitch? I haven't heard him; but I've heard Ruben do it. It's all style, and different ranges. Ruben has the low type R&B voice, Clay has the high pitched... Whatever you call it -- Broadway -- voice.

Making excuses for being out of breathe? You don't care if he's three hundred fifty pounds? Then you shouldn't complain about that. Big people get tired faster... The guy is big; so the guy runs out of breathe and sweats. IT HAS EVERYTHING TO DO WITH IT. THAT, my friend, is a fact, and not an opinion.... And it most certainly is not an excuse. Bigger people sweat and run out of breathe quicker... It's a fact; and it's not an excuse, nor opinion.

There are R&B singer with vocal range, of course. Shit like Destiny's Child, WHICH I HATE... Where they go off in feedback solos. I don't like that... That's NEW R&B, I don't like that. Maybe that's why I like Ruben so much. He's more like an old fashioned R&B, which I like, more than this new R&B shit. He can hit those low notes, as I've heard him. Music isn't all about singing so high that it cracks glass.

Thank you, you just proved my point! Ruben is an adorable teddy bear, with talent. So how in the BLUE HELL are you going to say he's not gonna get anywhere; or his success won't last? You better damn well know it was last! Everyone loves the guy, and he has talent... What's that mean? Ruben will be a huge success, get far... And last long. And he won't be back in his church within a year. I, though, got into this show because of VOCAL TALENT. You saying Clay is better suited for talk shows and shit is EXACTLY WHAT I HATE. I hate this whole personification with image. It's about the MUSIC, and not who makes a better talk show guest. Ruben is a good singer, as is Clay... That's why they are good... And not because Ruben is big and soft, and not because Clay improved his image. It's about music, not image.

Yes, America has picked their winner; and it's Ruben. Though, you sound like you hate him. Be nice!

As for the bet... I'd say fifty bucks? That sound good? Not too high, not too low. Just a small bet so I can prove ya wrong.

You're not hearing me. Not being able to physically perform a full-length concert without going out of breath is NOT an opinion. If he can't perform, he's not suited for it, and therefore not suitable as a pop idol.

As for range, you had two opportunities to hear Clay's rendition of Bridge Over Troubled Water, which is sung very low in the beginning.

As for R&B Style, I wasn't even talking about that "new" stuff - that's NOT R&B to me, at all. And if you think it's "all about the music" then, bro, sorry to break the news to you: the record charts have NOTHING to do with talent. It's all image and tens of thousands of dollars of studio mixing and fixing to make some talentless schmuck sound good. They only bother doing that, cuz the person has the right "image"; they just make him/her sound good in the studio.

And stop saying I hate Ruben - I won't repeat myself again

I'll get back to you on that bet.

Cheapskate...

Instigator

Man, he can perform a full concert. Just 'cause he's sweating and out of breathe? That doesn't mean he won't be able to sing a full concert. When I saw Stone Temple Pilots live... Scott Weiland was sweating; and CLEARLY out of breathe... But still put on the best show I have ever seen. Just 'cause he gets tired, doesn't mean he won't carry on.

I heard Clay's version of it. But, his low notes weren't that great. Ruben hit some high notes a couple times... They weren't that great. Low notes aren't Clay's area; and high notes aren't Ruben. As I said, it's all a preference of style.

The new R&B shit is exactly what I'm talking about. I think it's good that Ruben doesn't go off into a high pitched feedback like the new shit. He has a low pitched old fashion R&B sound; which I like... Alot. A smooth voice. About it being about the music... WELL DUH! I hate that everything is about image nowadays... That's what I'm trying to say. You're saying Clay is better suited for talk shows and shit... And I say THAT DOESN'T MATTER. 'Cause it's about the music, to me and any true music fan, over style/image. And that's why I pick Ruben... 'Cause I personally like his style and voice better... And I don't go by image.

I didn't say you hate Ruben, I said you act like it. QUIT PICKING ON HIM! As for the bet... I think fifty sounds good.

Ugh, I can see Vercetti is still up to his cheap one liners.

First off, I never said a word about sweating - I don't give a crap about that. Everyone sweats. Not an issue. As for lack of breath (breath, of course, being the life force of one's voice)... Scott Weiland isn't a candidate for a heart attack on stage. He can handle it, and power through it. I don't think Ruben can handle it, but, I guess we'll see.

I'm about done here, with this. I'll just add it really doesn't matter. OF COURSE it should be about the music. But it's not. I've been in and around the music business for many years. Trust me on this one: it's not about the music. At least for radio/charts. That is, where the money is. Of course there's a lot of great music out there. But you also must notice the great music isn't anywhere on the charts, or on the radio, and it's not making the major labels the money they greedily want.

Sure, I like a lot of popular music - it's pure entertainment. It's not necessarily the best "music" out there, cuz the "best" music is usually underground or indie, and is never heard by all the schmucks who voted in this competition.

But this competition wasn't about "music" - it was about -- again -- finding a Pop Idol. Period. End of story.

So yeah... we differ in opinion, which is fine. That makes the world more interesting.

And if you want to give me $50 next year, that's fine with me Set a date I should check Billboard magazine and other sources to determine "success"...