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Which rat was the most truthful in your opinion? #890774
08/14/16 04:55 PM
08/14/16 04:55 PM
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ralphie_cifaretto Offline OP
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ralphie_cifaretto  Offline OP
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If you had to pick one. My vote goes to Sal Vitale.

Re: Which rat was the most truthful in your opinion? [Re: ralphie_cifaretto] #890783
08/14/16 05:27 PM
08/14/16 05:27 PM
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pmac Offline
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One thing with vitale they say he order a homeless punk who stuck up his kid killed. The guy nicky crow was really truthfull and came across as pathetic. He said he was driver or sometging in his 1 murder. All the other plots were just plots. These new england rats are getting caught in lies every other year from 1 guys book to anothers.

Re: Which rat was the most truthful in your opinion? [Re: ralphie_cifaretto] #890784
08/14/16 05:29 PM
08/14/16 05:29 PM
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Phoenix, Arizona
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Walkner Offline
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Al D'arco

Re: Which rat was the most truthful in your opinion? [Re: ralphie_cifaretto] #890792
08/14/16 06:58 PM
08/14/16 06:58 PM
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Hollander Offline
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Nick Gentile.


"The king is dead, long live the king!"
Re: Which rat was the most truthful in your opinion? [Re: ralphie_cifaretto] #890794
08/14/16 08:19 PM
08/14/16 08:19 PM
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Posts: 3,021
far, northwest
Binnie_Coll Offline
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Binnie_Coll  Offline
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going way back, joe valachi, told about the ceremony, how the LCN was set up, identified all the bosses, and underbosses.
truthful enough that J. edgar hoover could no longer deny the existence of the L.C.N.



" watch what you say around this guy, he's got a big mouth" sam giancana to an outfit soldier about frank Sinatra. [ from the book "my way"
Re: Which rat was the most truthful in your opinion? [Re: ralphie_cifaretto] #890798
08/14/16 08:55 PM
08/14/16 08:55 PM
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Binnie you no your probaly right. He was wrong about a few things and experts say he was border line retared. Or probalg just dumb. Wasnt genovese his best man or something way back. He was wrong about who was in what family but they say it was what the feds were telling him and they had bad info. He was spot on about the structure thats the same today.

Re: Which rat was the most truthful in your opinion? [Re: ralphie_cifaretto] #890805
08/14/16 10:45 PM
08/14/16 10:45 PM
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Kokomo
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Beanshooter Offline
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Mikey Scars Dileonardo

Re: Which rat was the most truthful in your opinion? [Re: ralphie_cifaretto] #890806
08/14/16 10:45 PM
08/14/16 10:45 PM
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Kokomo
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Petey Crumb Caprio

Re: Which rat was the most truthful in your opinion? [Re: ralphie_cifaretto] #890807
08/14/16 10:49 PM
08/14/16 10:49 PM
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Yogi Merlino

Last edited by Beanshooter; 08/14/16 10:49 PM.
Re: Which rat was the most truthful in your opinion? [Re: pmac] #890814
08/14/16 11:19 PM
08/14/16 11:19 PM
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far, northwest
Binnie_Coll Offline
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Originally Posted By: pmac
Binnie you no your probaly right. He was wrong about a few things and experts say he was border line retared. Or probalg just dumb. Wasnt genovese his best man or something way back. He was wrong about who was in what family but they say it was what the feds were telling him and they had bad info. He was spot on about the structure thats the same today.

'
yes, pmac he was vitos best man at his wedding, also he wasn't
retarded or disturbed, the information he gave about the original five n.y.c. dons was spot on. when he went in front of congress in 1963 the L.C.N. freaked out. here was a made guy an insider, giving away secret information, it was the first time in history a made guy flipped.



" watch what you say around this guy, he's got a big mouth" sam giancana to an outfit soldier about frank Sinatra. [ from the book "my way"
Re: Which rat was the most truthful in your opinion? [Re: Beanshooter] #890826
08/15/16 03:53 AM
08/15/16 03:53 AM
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MightyDR Offline
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Originally Posted By: Beanshooter
Mikey Scars Dileonardo


I've gotta go with Mikey Scars too. I'm sure he held back some stuff, but he comes across as quite honest IMO. Always has some interesting info.

Re: Which rat was the most truthful in your opinion? [Re: MightyDR] #890838
08/15/16 10:10 AM
08/15/16 10:10 AM
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BillyBrizzi Offline
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Originally Posted By: MightyDR
Originally Posted By: Beanshooter
Mikey Scars Dileonardo


I've gotta go with Mikey Scars too. I'm sure he held back some stuff, but he comes across as quite honest IMO. Always has some interesting info.


Yep, I second that one too..


FORTIS FORTUNA IUVAT
Re: Which rat was the most truthful in your opinion? [Re: ralphie_cifaretto] #890847
08/15/16 12:01 PM
08/15/16 12:01 PM
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Toodoped Offline
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I dont believe in truthful rat. They took an oath. It doesnt mean if the things you do are right or wrong or the other way around, if you took an oath, you'll keep your mouth shut and thats that. On the other hand if you never took an oath, well than thats another story...


He who can never endure the bad will never see the good
Re: Which rat was the most truthful in your opinion? [Re: ralphie_cifaretto] #890850
08/15/16 01:28 PM
08/15/16 01:28 PM
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Kokomo
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You raise a good legal point Toodoped. So you are basically saying that associates are really the only ones who are not lying on the witness stand. I can see Jacobs, Cutler and Stargell asking rats on the stand about their Cosa Nostra oath how and when they took it, how they believed it and have now decided to brake that sacred oath by testifying. The lawyers can then say, so what the difference now? You took you an Oath here to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you God and how do we know you're not lying now?

Re: Which rat was the most truthful in your opinion? [Re: Beanshooter] #890852
08/15/16 01:52 PM
08/15/16 01:52 PM
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Thats a very good point Beans. Also associates dont give a damn if they talk about their business relations with mobsters and that is why many mob members made mistakes by bringing the same associates to their bosses. Such is the Sam Battaglia case in Chicago during the mid 1960's.


He who can never endure the bad will never see the good
Re: Which rat was the most truthful in your opinion? [Re: Beanshooter] #890853
08/15/16 01:56 PM
08/15/16 01:56 PM
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bronx Offline
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it is not a matter of taking an oath at the point of testimony, the question was who was most truthful, a ton of crimes are solved with guys who flip, gravano unloaded the truth he just minimized his role and blamed gotti, but he put the shooters there. opened up all the union stuff.. joe messing the same..al darco slanted everything away from him and protected his son..but the guy solved so many homicides, no question..scars was also devastating. i just looked up how many times these guys put their hands up ..gravano 9 darco 9 scars 15! believe that ..that means these guys could not be proven to lie on the stand or they never would have been used case after case..throw vitali in , he was devastating also..he has i think 6 trials..so breaking the oath aside these guys stood the test of very good lawyers.rats all folks!

Re: Which rat was the most truthful in your opinion? [Re: ralphie_cifaretto] #890857
08/15/16 02:44 PM
08/15/16 02:44 PM
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Kokomo
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What I am talking about Bronx are the 12 Jurors. They are the ones who decide the fate of the defendants. . So if the Defense attorney raises an argument that when the witness was in the life he swore an oath and lived by the code and he believed in the life but yet he broke the Omertà rule by ratting. He basically can't be trusted now to tell the truth now while testifying. Because he lied to his CN family and he's capable of lying now to the jurors.

Re: Which rat was the most truthful in your opinion? [Re: ralphie_cifaretto] #890865
08/15/16 03:42 PM
08/15/16 03:42 PM
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bronx Offline
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got it..Bean... thanks..

Re: Which rat was the most truthful in your opinion? [Re: ralphie_cifaretto] #890908
08/15/16 08:39 PM
08/15/16 08:39 PM
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MightyDR Offline
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"I got to learn that the whole thing was bullshit. I mean, we broke every rule in the book. Like, at one of the trials, a lawyer asked me, 'How could you break the oath of omerta?' I said, 'There's a hundred rules. We broke ninety-nine of them. This was the last rule. It wasn't that hard anymore'".
-Gravano

Re: Which rat was the most truthful in your opinion? [Re: ralphie_cifaretto] #891162
08/18/16 08:23 AM
08/18/16 08:23 AM
Joined: Oct 2013
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Moe_Tilden Offline
ForeverBotheringIranians
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Originally Posted By: ralphie_cifaretto
If you had to pick one. My vote goes to Sal Vitale.


Was a corrections officer before he got caught up with Massino.

Another guy, like Leonetti, who likes to blame his life of crime on falling in with an influential, older family member.

He punched an agent out one time.

Vitale, Ligambi.. I wonder who else has done that.

Not everyone is a Massino or Gambino who maintains entente cordiale with the guys looking to bring them down.


I invoke my right under the 5th amendment of the United States constitution and decline to answer the question.
Re: Which rat was the most truthful in your opinion? [Re: ralphie_cifaretto] #891166
08/18/16 09:35 AM
08/18/16 09:35 AM
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Alfa Romeo Offline
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I don't know if you could call Jon Roberts a rat, but everything he put into his book seemed to be uncensored straight dope. The real deal.


"For us, rubbin'out a Mustache was just like makin' way for a new building, like we was in the construction business."
Re: Which rat was the most truthful in your opinion? [Re: MightyDR] #891167
08/18/16 09:57 AM
08/18/16 09:57 AM
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Beanshooter Offline
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Originally Posted By: MightyDR
"I got to learn that the whole thing was bullshit. I mean, we broke every rule in the book. Like, at one of the trials, a lawyer asked me, 'How could you break the oath of omerta?' I said, 'There's a hundred rules. We broke ninety-nine of them. This was the last rule. It wasn't that hard anymore'".
-Gravano


Nice find MightyDR. Spot on by Gravano!

Re: Which rat was the most truthful in your opinion? [Re: ralphie_cifaretto] #891174
08/18/16 12:01 PM
08/18/16 12:01 PM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 4,461
Green Grove Retirement Communi...
OakAsFan Offline
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I liked Gravano's book. I've heard people say that he lied about a lot of things, but he certainly set the record straight on Gotti. Gotti was a beloved celebrity up to that point that, as far as anyone knew, was one of the great mafia dons of all time. He was a trainwreck, and Gravano spelled it out with information that for the most part was corroborated by court records, wire taps, witnesses, etc.


"...the successful annihilation of organized crime's subculture in America would rock the 'legitimate' world's foundation, which would ultimately force fundamental social changes and redistributions of wealth and power in this country. Meyer Lansky's dream was to bond the two worlds together so that one could not survive without the other." - Dan E. Moldea
Re: Which rat was the most truthful in your opinion? [Re: ralphie_cifaretto] #891194
08/18/16 03:31 PM
08/18/16 03:31 PM
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ScottishChris Offline
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Nick Calabrese - calm and clearly laid out the mundane life of a mobster.

Re: Which rat was the most truthful in your opinion? [Re: ralphie_cifaretto] #891209
08/18/16 05:58 PM
08/18/16 05:58 PM
Joined: Mar 2012
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Willenhall
Philip_Lombardo Offline
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Willenhall
Carmine Sessa

Re: Which rat was the most truthful in your opinion? [Re: Alfa Romeo] #891222
08/18/16 07:54 PM
08/18/16 07:54 PM
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MightyDR Offline
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Originally Posted By: Alfa Romeo
I don't know if you could call Jon Roberts a rat, but everything he put into his book seemed to be uncensored straight dope. The real deal.


Totally agree Alfa, love that book.

Re: Which rat was the most truthful in your opinion? [Re: MightyDR] #891441
08/20/16 02:44 PM
08/20/16 02:44 PM
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Alfa Romeo Offline
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Alfa Romeo  Offline
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Originally Posted By: MightyDR
Originally Posted By: Alfa Romeo
I don't know if you could call Jon Roberts a rat, but everything he put into his book seemed to be uncensored straight dope. The real deal.


Totally agree Alfa, love that book.


So do I. Every emotion is covered in that book, and then some. Some of his confessions are downright disconcerting. Then after the book was released, we found out he was still friendly with some dirty cops who supposedly supplied him with unmarked guns. Very wild. Very scary.


"For us, rubbin'out a Mustache was just like makin' way for a new building, like we was in the construction business."
Re: Which rat was the most truthful in your opinion? [Re: ralphie_cifaretto] #891447
08/20/16 03:07 PM
08/20/16 03:07 PM
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Green Grove Retirement Communi...
OakAsFan Offline
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Was Roberts the one on Cocaine Cowboys, who talks about his uncle or something being in the mob? Wasn't aware he had a book. I'll check that out.


"...the successful annihilation of organized crime's subculture in America would rock the 'legitimate' world's foundation, which would ultimately force fundamental social changes and redistributions of wealth and power in this country. Meyer Lansky's dream was to bond the two worlds together so that one could not survive without the other." - Dan E. Moldea
Re: Which rat was the most truthful in your opinion? [Re: ralphie_cifaretto] #891457
08/20/16 04:22 PM
08/20/16 04:22 PM
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Beenaround Offline
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Mikey Dileonardo is the most truthful

Re: Which rat was the most truthful in your opinion? [Re: OakAsFan] #891459
08/20/16 05:05 PM
08/20/16 05:05 PM
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Alfa Romeo Offline
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Originally Posted By: OakAsFan
Was Roberts the one on Cocaine Cowboys, who talks about his uncle or something being in the mob? Wasn't aware he had a book. I'll check that out.


Yes, yes he did, and yes you should. smile


"For us, rubbin'out a Mustache was just like makin' way for a new building, like we was in the construction business."
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