Rarely do I post. That being said I am a long time member/lurker. I also go way back to forums like the heyday of americanmafia etc. It has been completely frustrating to watch posts going on where people (who claim they know stuff) try and compare power in terms of street level gang members going against LCN. Modern day American LCN exists in a COMPLETELY different sphere than street gangs such as the Bloods (UBN or West Coast), GDs etc. To compare American LCN to ANY other STREET criminal entity is to compare Burger King to a fine French restaurant. Yes one will have more customers and employees over a fractured group of franchises but the other will have long term customers and long term employees making money over generations and In a cleaner and more refined way. This is not a video game or a bad movie where a gang takes on the mob for control of the city. It won't happen. Street gangs could care less about mafia gambling operations or union racketeering and LCN could care less about a street corner in the ghetto pumping out crack or heroin. For example there will never be a "war" between the Bloods and the Gambinos over ANYTHING. The amount of gang members in a given city where LCN has presence has a minuscule to absolutely zero impact on any LCN activities in that given area. There is no overlap in terms of rackets or even aspects of the drug trade. In isolated instances there is an overlap where mutual associates (in terms of street gangs and LCN) rub shoulders. This is isolated and not a fact of the life. There are even instances where relatives of made or connected guys become street gang members however these are so rare they don't even factor in. Made guys rarely, if ever, care about street gang politics and street gangs have absolutely zero clue about anything going on LCN racket-wise. This may be different in Canada and other areas as I don't claim to be an expert about those areas. Power in modern day American LCN doesn't come from the amount of soldiers or members (as it would pertain to street gang versus street gang) nor the amount of guns etc. Power in modern day LCN comes from brains, connections in various industries and trades, political connections (more within businesses and amongst families than amongst actual politicians). In the American LCN, one 70 year old man has more earning power than entire neighborhoods of pistol packing gang member driven rackets. So for those guys on these forums who insist on these "GD vs Mafia What ifs".... It's simply not true.

PS: this even extends to the cartels etc.... American LCN really does occupy its own unique niche. There is rarely an overlap.

PPS: it is an indisputable fact that the Mafia families in the Northeast are the pre eminent and most dominant LCN groups in the USA. This is not up for debate.

I agree with you.
I come from a world of California street gangs and in recent years became increasingly interested in all things to do with LCN especially because The Sopranos is my favorite show of all time.
I think there's similarities in these two worlds but that's it.
Comparisons are apples and oranges to put in mildly.

I can't speak about street gangs in the northeast but I know many gangs have tried to model themselves after LA gangs, bloods and crips etc.

IMO gangs in LA traditionally has been a blood sport of rival tribes.
Gangs fight each other just to fight each other.
Gang members will literally sit around talking with one another and keeping score of how many enemies they picked off vs the nearby rivals.
I always would hear about how gangs are fighting for drug turf and stuff but that's overblown. There's truth to it but the vast majority of the violence is for no reason at all other than to prove which gang is the hardest and most dangerous.
There's been a shift in recent decades of street gangs organizing better to make money, but it still isn't the same as LCN which is in a totally different realm.
When people talk about power these groups hold vs the other, in makes no sense.
Street gangs have no real reason to fear LCN and LCN has no reason to fear street gangs. It's a different world.

There aren't many, because it is two different worlds, but if you look at the few examples of interaction between the LCN and gangs in the US over the past 15 years, it's pretty much always been for mutual profit. They typically don't cross paths and, when the do, they don't butt heads.

I agree with SoCalGangs but people also have to realize that they been interacting ( Outfit & Stones in the 70s, NYC families & UBN/LKN, etc) and overlap in certain areas. Don't just bash street gangs to some lower scale when it's a variety of scope amongst themselves. Money talks at the end of the day and that shows when mobsters work with bangers. Enough said, there's no "levels" just networks.

Yeah if anything a street gang would love to network with the mob if they could. It only makes sense, why not make more profit.
As far as bashing street gangs vs the mob, I don't really look at either being morally superior anyway. It's just different mentalities, goals and cultures.

It is all one.

I mostly agree with you, couple things though;



Your Burger King analogy, lol. You shoulda said the neighborhood burger joint or the bodega restaurant, Burger King is like a Fortune 500 right? That's like saying it's better to have the BEST steakhouse in midtown as opposed to, like McDonalds, lol, it's not.


On the Gd thing, the kid asked if the BDs were stronger than the outfit;
I mentioned the GDs from the NINTIES, cause it was the most " mafia-ish" gang, this is outta the police's mouth not mine. And the one that came the closest to resembling a mafia style crime syndicate, again I made allusions to, fuck what was it 21st century vote? I drew parrelles to the old outfit tactics of having crews influencing voters, THATS how I actually think that thing woulda eventually turned out, with Hoover giving orders from prison like, tell the neighborhoods to vote for so and so, the Feds couldn't have that.

Now, and Ivey can attest to this, I actually argue all the time that counting the made members is not exactly a good way to gage the strenght of the organization, you gotta look at the actual rackets and operations involved, I think we agree here. I mentioned the Feds estimate of their membership back then, like 30000, ( and again, like Black Fam stated those numbers are probably inflated, buuuuuuut, it came from the FEDS RIGHT?, lol) that's literally enough guys to put a crew on every Outfit guy 24 hours a day, but of course it would never happen.

I don't know, like THAT thread irritated you like that? Why? I mean I read about every thing from Mafia, ( and I don't mean JUST NY, I read about ALL of it)
To cartels, (and I don't mean JUST the Mexicans, lol, you know there was a Kaszakhstani CAVIAR cartel, shit was like 8000 a kilo) Like your reaction to the thread says more to me than anything. I've seen the dumbest threads imaginable and they don't make me feel anything ( examples; Most handsome mobster, biggest house, Lincoln or Cadillacs, any thread about this Alite dude, lol)


I don't know, anyway like I said I think anyone who actually pays attention to this stuff agrees with you, any thoughts?

Well I think we all basically agree. There IS some overlap which is very much on the fringe. I do not mean that in their circles street gangs are not completely feared and respected, I know very well that they are to one degree or another a major force in their neighborhoods. Conversely, LCN does not necessarily in this day and age have a "neighborhood" to be a force in. They transcend industries, businesses and urban/suburban cultures in certain areas. It's just a different racket is all. I actually didn't mean that whole GD vs Outfit thread at all bc that was a way more put together thread than some of the others I've seen on here in the past (I don't post much so this is encompassing a lot going back). Suffice to say this, you will NEVER see American LCN with Uzis in the streets competing with UBNs in the NE or GDs in Chicago and that is where I just want to put to bed all this speculation that comes up on the forums. One is not necessarily better than the other (depending on where you're coming from and I certainly have my opinion). It's just that I hope us guys who are interested in all of this can at least put this whole "war myth" to bed the next time some guy comes on here talking about it.

All I asked in that thread is if the GD make money and have more power than the Outfit, because if they do that's surprising. I'm not the one who started talking about a city-wide war.

Once again, I was not referring to that thread. Yes it was part of it but overall it was not my target. Like I said, I don't get on here all that often to post and there have been many threads by many people who claim to be knowledgable that just make me shake my head when they think this is some sorta B-movie where
the west side will be fighting it out with Uzis on Arthur avenue with the Albanians or the bloods will be fighting over drug turf in east New York with the luccheses. That's done and to a certain extent, with limited exceptions it never was there in the first place. (Of course we just have to look at the Colombo war to see that my way of thinking doesn't apply to them, although I feel that ideas about a shooting war in philly, Boston etc. are RIDICULOUS)

Aaa ah ok, I got you, and I agree wholeheartedly lol

Peoples idea of how street gang vs street gang wars really happen are very skewed or exaggerated too, in general.
Then people imagining the Mafia vs a street gang than things get even more ridiculous.
Real life isn't like GTAV

Couldn't agree more

Crime is crime fellas

you're right brickhouse the mobster prefer to stay in the shadow made 10 and enjoy it and stay away from jail as is possible.
Crime is crime,yes king but the gang members as a child start selling drugs in a corner,after kill a men for be accepted in the gang and say that his future is the dead or the prison.
Mobster could arrive to 96 and continue to make money,while I don't know blood members of 60/70 y that continue to sell heroin on a corner.

The older guard move behind the scene basically.

Crime is not crime. There is organized and disorganized crime. It's as different as apples and oranges. Now is it morally different? Absolutely not. Breaking the law in the name of organized crime is not in any way shape or form morally better. Which is what I'm sure you meant. The whole point of the post was to put it to rest some of these posters on here who ask about "wars" and all that nonsense. You will NEVER see another mafia "war". Yes there may be disputes that result in property damage, beatings of associates, maybe even the odd hit or two but there will never be a war in the streets like the Colombo thing in the 90s. I think even more "loose cannon" groups such as the Albanians and Russians are smart enough to realize that bloodshed like that doesn't benefit anyone. Now Mexican cartels are a lik different but once again, they simply don't operate in the same sphere as American LCN.

What about Montreal?

I actually said above that I can't quote on Canada. The liberal laws there and overall failure to adapt to criminal problems enable them to continue in their war. If that happened in any american city it would be way different. Unlike many other posters here I also feel that the Montreal mafia is way more European based and concentrated. They are not a bonnano Sattelite. They follow old world ideals that are more CN, nagdrahta (sp), Camorra etc. than American LCN.

Really groundbreaking stuff - real life is not a videogame or a movie. Insightful.

If the thread is about the pinicle of OC in North America then it is indisputable that it is the drug cartels who by any definition are the most powerful.

A cartel (insert your choice here) would wipe the floor with even the Genovese.

But all operate in separate spheres with minimal overlap.

CN doesn't sling crack on corners, Los Zetas isn't big into loan or gambling.
Each has their niche.
But dollar wise the cartels shit on CN.
Hell if you take the bloods and the crips as nation wide syndicates, they do too.

Don't burst my bubble MH.

The Mafia vs. The Bloods would be a cool video game.

There's some political history with the Crips and Bloods forming around the time the Black Panthers broke up, and how those gangs were formed, with Pirus, Brims etc becoming enemies with the Crips. I'm sure this played a key role in the early battle lines, although I'm also sure that in the crack era greed and drug turf became a bigger motive.

So little is known about the early days of Latino gangs in LA. When you consider how old they are, I wonder if there's a connection to the parts of Mexico they came from. There's a couple of Maravilla gangs that have namesakes that denote a connection to regions and families in Mexico, such as Juarez Maravilla, Lopez Maravilla, etc. Bet there's some history there, especially when you consider that the Maravilla neighborhoods have a history of breaking ranks with Surenos and la Eme.

Could never consider bloods and crips as nationwide syndicates.

Well in CN you had families from Denver to Florida. How much did they share in common? But they were both a mafia family obeying the same rules and membership.
Exactly the same as a blood gang from Idaho to Alaska. Both obey the same rules and obide by the same membership.

Why is one considered a national syndicate and not the other?

Yeah that's true about the Crips and Bloods.
But there is an "LA gang style" that has existed since the early 1900s and maybe slightly earlier.
I think bloods and Crips adopted some of Chicano gang style that was around them back in the days. Clothes, graffiti, slang words, gang names etc. which probably set them apart from Black gangs in other parts of the country.
Today I think Blacks influence Chicano gangs far more in many ways. It reversed a lot.
Some early gangs were more racially mixed way back.
The tradition was always to Fued with nearby rivals.
Sometimes gangs would form alliances, but those usually don't last too long.

I don't know how Juarez MV got their name. I know Lopez Maravilla is named after the street in East La, Lopez avenue. But I get what you're saying.

I had to look up the term syndicate.
I guess one would get the impression that a nationwide syndicate is some big organized operation of different groups working together somehow.

I'm not sure how alike a blood hood in Idaho would be to one in California.
Honestly don't know.
I remember when I knew a lot of LA crips and bloods that thought the out of state ones were strange. I guess times have changed now and those things are more accepted.

Crips & Bloods origin isn't rooted in political history. The L.A chapter of the BPP started and collapsed with large black gangs such as Hoover Groovers, Brims, Green Jackets, and Bishops.

LCN can be looked as an umbrella including Camorra, Ndrangheta , Triads, & Yakuza. All labels or brand names for individual groups sharing similar code of conduct.

To clarify. This is true.
The theory I always heard is the lack groups such as the Black Panthers being around helped lead to the rise of Crips and Bloods. Not because of them.