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Re: Most powerful LCN member today
[Re: carminezazzi]
#878831
03/20/16 09:57 AM
03/20/16 09:57 AM
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Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 1,595
manchester uk
domwoods74
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 1,595
manchester uk
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The usual suspects , bellomo , muscarella , Daniel Leo ,patsy falcetti (116th street crew) dom cefalu , Frank Cali , John gambino , Lorenzo mannino , Steve crea and maybe the santorelli's . Those in my opinion are the most powerful bosses and leaders of the biggest crew in the American mob today
Last edited by domwoods74; 03/20/16 10:12 AM.
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Re: Most powerful LCN member today
[Re: carminezazzi]
#878841
03/20/16 11:27 AM
03/20/16 11:27 AM
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Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 2,028
TommyGambino
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 2,028
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Re: Most powerful LCN member today
[Re: carminezazzi]
#878893
03/21/16 01:37 AM
03/21/16 01:37 AM
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Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,653
Chicago
CabriniGreen
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,653
Chicago
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@Pmac
What did you think about that Queens/Calabrian cocaine bust that the papers loosely tried to connect to the Genovese?
I thought it very interesting because they got involved at all, indeed why would they?
I thought it might be a response to the Gambinos getting in on the action in Ontario.
Also interesting to me were the roles played "allegedly" by the NY families.
Supposedly the Gambinos provided the South American connections for the Calabrian family, the Mexicans provided the "transport service" so to speak. But now this was direct to Italy, not Canada.
The Queens thing looks like the Calabrians bought the Coke IN NEW YORK WHOLESALE, probably from the Zetas, probably a little more expensive than getting it from South America, but this cost is probably offset from them having their OWN TRANSPORTS, and connections to the Calabrian docks.
The thing is, according to the papers, they were using Genovese money to actually BUY the Coke, as they had the Genovese as financiers. This tells me that amongst the Calabrian families, it's kind of a free for all. There is a hierarchy among the top bosses to divide up, basically whole territories like Australia, and Germany, Toronto what have you, but you have to get by on your own resources and connections. There might be alliances among families that get remade and broken continuously, kinda like the [BadWord] reportedly getting in bed with Calabrians.
Here is a quote from Giovanni Falcone illustrating why I see the drug thing as a critical focal point.....
“Whenever I come across such exponential figures, I remember what Giovanni Falcone told a group of students: “In order to understand how prosperous the drug trade is, consider that a thousand lire invested in drugs on the first of September become a hundred million by the first of August of the following year.” His example was recorded in hundreds of school notebooks.
They had the Gambino thing as 500 keys worth a billion retail. Take a tenth of that, that's 100 million. Take a quarter of THAT that's 25 million. Do that 10 times ( ten shipments) and you are still talking 250 million. It just seems to me a family operating large scale narcotics operations will have more earning potential than a family NOT operating a large scale narcotics operation, this is the only component that has me ranking Cali higher than a WestSide guy.
Drugs are like a financial virus, lol
I know the Genovese are the savvy ones, but they MUST look at that action and feel SOME kind of way......
Okay I got a question for the West Side experts, the Genovese had the Miami docks right? Why did they never get in on the cocaine bonanza? Wait, never mind, those docks were probably too closely watched after awhile' I just remembered Cocaine Cowboys and the Air Drops and all that....
One last question, what exactly are the extent of the Genoveses Union connections in the greater NY area? I know construction is going nowhere (it seems to be a corrupt industry everywhere, America, Canada, Italy, Nigeria, kinda interesting in itself) but what else generates comparable income? I know NY has endless locals for everything under the sun from drivers to doormen to janitors, to painters, bartenders, whatever...
Last edited by CabriniGreen; 03/21/16 01:44 AM.
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Re: Most powerful LCN member today
[Re: SonnyBlackstein]
#878899
03/21/16 05:33 AM
03/21/16 05:33 AM
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Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,653
Chicago
CabriniGreen
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,653
Chicago
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@ Tommy &Sonny
These are good examples of power being fluid, not stone. I always heard Riina was all powerful, but Roberto Saviano described him as being almost SUBSERVIENT to the Nuvoletta family. If not subservient, definitely deferential. Provenzano was the top boss, and yet I've read that the guy, in meetings with other Mafiosi, just REFUSED to make a decision, like ever, lol. He irritated a lot of bosses.
Salvatore LoPiccolos connections to Cali and the Inzerillos had him pegged as Provenzanos successor, and THIS compelled the boss Rotolo (hardline coleonesi )to go and get two barrels for him and his son. Matteo Messina Denaro has been off the scene for over twenty years, look at the Sicilian mafias decline in that time. THATS NOT A GOOD LEADER TO HAVE, he's not increasing their position in the drug trade, not making moves, shit he can't. When you saw Rizzuto making billion dollar bridge deals from Canada, it really showed you the state of Sicily. And the type of power he accumulated there, at that point I don't think the Corleonesi were the scariest people in Sicily anymore...
This is off topic, but here is an example, some writing I see on the wall already;
The Mexican cartels, ARE IN SERIOUS TROUBLE. FRONT PAGE of the SuntTimes this morning, "HISTORY IN HAVANA", you guys see? As relations with Cuba become more normalized, add in the increasing political rhetoric in regards to immigration and the border, El Chapo getting caught (This is going to reduce the invincibility factor by a lot) I see a reactivation of the Carribean corridor as the primary route for narcotics being an inevitability at this point. It should probably be another thread, maybe I'll make one, any thoughts?
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Re: Most powerful LCN member today
[Re: carminezazzi]
#878901
03/21/16 06:13 AM
03/21/16 06:13 AM
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Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,653
Chicago
CabriniGreen
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,653
Chicago
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@ Carmine
Philly and Jersey guys would have to chime in, but a good question, what affect would a relationship with a NY family have on an aspiring leader in Philadelphia? Especially with all the confusion with the faction thing. I've read on this board that a lot of Philly guys don't like bowing so low to NY. And yet, if a guy like Ligambi can go to Gambino Sharks, the money men and get say one point on a loan, allowing him to finance operations, would that trump ( no pun intended) any hurt feelings and egos?
Connections to NY would probably help financially, but not politically, with the other made guys? Is that how you guys see it?
Same with NE, I got no idea how that relationship works today, any thoughts?
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Re: Most powerful LCN member today
[Re: CabriniGreen]
#878960
03/22/16 05:04 AM
03/22/16 05:04 AM
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 8,534
IvyLeague
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 8,534
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Sure in NY, but also on an international scale??
Like others said before in this thread, Cali/Gambino have the connections to Canada, 'Ndrangheta and their cousins in Sicily..
Does the Westside/Bellomo still have a lot of influence outside of the NY metropolitan area?? If we're talking outside the extended NY metro area, which reaches as far north as the northern suburbs and southern Connecticut and as far south as central New Jersey, you could also add parts of Massachusetts and Florida where the family still has a presence. So do you think these guys have much to do with families like new england, philly or detroit? There is still connections with New England and Philadelphia because of the geographic proximity. Not so much Detroit at this point. @Pmac
What did you think about that Queens/Calabrian cocaine bust that the papers loosely tried to connect to the Genovese?
I thought it very interesting because they got involved at all, indeed why would they?
I thought it might be a response to the Gambinos getting in on the action in Ontario.
Also interesting to me were the roles played "allegedly" by the NY families.
Supposedly the Gambinos provided the South American connections for the Calabrian family, the Mexicans provided the "transport service" so to speak. But now this was direct to Italy, not Canada.
The Queens thing looks like the Calabrians bought the Coke IN NEW YORK WHOLESALE, probably from the Zetas, probably a little more expensive than getting it from South America, but this cost is probably offset from them having their OWN TRANSPORTS, and connections to the Calabrian docks.
The thing is, according to the papers, they were using Genovese money to actually BUY the Coke, as they had the Genovese as financiers. This tells me that amongst the Calabrian families, it's kind of a free for all. There is a hierarchy among the top bosses to divide up, basically whole territories like Australia, and Germany, Toronto what have you, but you have to get by on your own resources and connections. There might be alliances among families that get remade and broken continuously, kinda like the [BadWord] reportedly getting in bed with Calabrians.
Here is a quote from Giovanni Falcone illustrating why I see the drug thing as a critical focal point.....
“Whenever I come across such exponential figures, I remember what Giovanni Falcone told a group of students: “In order to understand how prosperous the drug trade is, consider that a thousand lire invested in drugs on the first of September become a hundred million by the first of August of the following year.” His example was recorded in hundreds of school notebooks.
They had the Gambino thing as 500 keys worth a billion retail. Take a tenth of that, that's 100 million. Take a quarter of THAT that's 25 million. Do that 10 times ( ten shipments) and you are still talking 250 million. It just seems to me a family operating large scale narcotics operations will have more earning potential than a family NOT operating a large scale narcotics operation, this is the only component that has me ranking Cali higher than a WestSide guy.
Drugs are like a financial virus, lol
I know the Genovese are the savvy ones, but they MUST look at that action and feel SOME kind of way......
Okay I got a question for the West Side experts, the Genovese had the Miami docks right? Why did they never get in on the cocaine bonanza? Wait, never mind, those docks were probably too closely watched after awhile' I just remembered Cocaine Cowboys and the Air Drops and all that....
One last question, what exactly are the extent of the Genoveses Union connections in the greater NY area? I know construction is going nowhere (it seems to be a corrupt industry everywhere, America, Canada, Italy, Nigeria, kinda interesting in itself) but what else generates comparable income? I know NY has endless locals for everything under the sun from drivers to doormen to janitors, to painters, bartenders, whatever...
The financial backing rumors by the Genovese regarding that Queens bust is interesting. A couple Genovese associates were among the many charged back in the 2008 Project Reckoning bust that targeted the Gulf Cartel and Ndrangheta. You look at the cases over the past 15 years and the Genovese have had their own drug cases. However, comparatively speaking, they don't seem to be as deeply involved in the drug trade as the Gambinos. This jives with comments made by different people in law enforcement that have talked about the family maintaining more involvement in sophisticated labor racketeering schemes and influence in legitimate industries than the others. While I do think the Gambinos have the biggest stake in the drug trade of any of the NY families, I don't think it's so big that it would put them ahead of the Genovese in money or power. And indeed, according to law enforcement and mob experts, it doesnt. The Genovese are considered to be the wealthier and more powerful of the two families. Your question about the Genovese and the Miami docks illustrates the difference with them. And the same point could be made about their presence on the NY/NJ waterfront too. To them, it's more important to maintain their position there, which they have for almost a century, then to risk it all by making quick money (even a lot of it) by smuggling drugs. Drugs have a high reward but it's also very high risk. The Genovese prefer to maintain control of key ILA locals and everything that goes with that - extortion payments from waterfront businesses, kickbacks from ILA members, bid-rigging for contracts, union jobs for family and friends, etc. To answer your other question, if you look at the Genovese union cases over the past 15 years, there's been the ILA on the waterfront, various unions in construction - Carpenters, Laborers, Operating Engineers, Elevator Constructors, Roofers, etc, also some Teamsters locals, as well as various miscellaneous locals - Bakery, Confectionary & Tobacco, Newspaper, Food & Commercial Workers, and so on. They, more than any other family, have been successful at maintaining their union clout and the resulting influence in industries like the waterfront, construction, demolition, trucking, waste hauling, recycling, etc. The Genovese do have some involvement in the drug trade. But their money, power and position as the top family come more from 1) controlling the largest bookmaking and loansharking operations in the greater NY metro area, and 2) having the most labor union clout and legitimate industry influence remaining. And, within the LCN sphere, those are more important than narcotics. Let's not forget that the LCN has been marginalized in the drug trade to a great extent. So it's important not to overvalue Cali's international connections or whatever.
Last edited by IvyLeague; 03/22/16 05:06 AM.
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Re: Most powerful LCN member today
[Re: Giacomo_Vacari]
#878997
03/22/16 01:35 PM
03/22/16 01:35 PM
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Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 2,028
TommyGambino
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 2,028
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