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Re: Can be a criminal and a good father ?
[Re: getthesenets]
#876903
02/28/16 07:08 AM
02/28/16 07:08 AM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 7,243
naples,italy
furio_from_naples
OP
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OP
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 7,243
naples,italy
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Furio,
person who enters a life of crime knows that prison or early death are part of the life. A good father tries to make sure that he's THERE to support and protect his family.
A criminal can be good at the details of raising a family, but unless he's doing the criminal stuff as a means to an end with plans of leaving it behind....he's not a good father overall. What would say it possibile that a criminal that kill,sell drugs ecc when turn back home become a completly different person. Kuklinsky's wife was shocked when know that his husband was a serial killer,sure he often beat her but the next day buy her flowers and apologize,kuklinsky said that admited the 5 murders for avoid to his family the shame and let that his wife (he don't ask for the divorcembut richard want to divorce) and sons to don't be market as iceman sons. However even bikers ,gang members ecc had family. I trought if one of more of us can split the criminal life from the family life.
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Re: Can be a criminal and a good father ?
[Re: furio_from_naples]
#876912
02/28/16 09:06 AM
02/28/16 09:06 AM
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 21
Central Iowa
Chance
Wiseguy
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Wiseguy
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 21
Central Iowa
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Reminds me of a quote from one of my favorite characters on TV I've known good criminals and bad cops, bad priests, honorable thieves. You can be on one side of the law or the other, but if you make a deal with somebody, you keep your word. You can go home today with your money and never do this again, but you took soemthing that wasn't yours and you sold it for a profit. You are now a criminal. Good one, bad one, that's up to you. Not exactly about being a father but I still think it fits. Bonus points to whoever can name the show and the character who said it.
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Re: Can be a criminal and a good father ?
[Re: SonnyBlackstein]
#876949
02/28/16 06:34 PM
02/28/16 06:34 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 7,243
naples,italy
furio_from_naples
OP
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OP
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 7,243
naples,italy
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Kuklinski was a horrendous father and husband. He used to beat the living fuck out of all of them on a regular basis.
To answer the thread, no. Can u be a criminal and a good father.
A major job as a father is to be a role model. Children emulate their parents.
And being a criminal you fail as a positive role model in a child's life. Therefor failing at one of your most important jobs as a parent. I saw in a documentary that his wife said that yes kuklinsky beat her but after apologize with her with a Flower and go out for a dinner and that never beate his sons. Kuklinsky in a interview said that declare guilty of the 5 murders because in this mode his family can avoid the media and that ever the wife dont want to divorce but Richard said her to made a new life away from him. Now I dont want to defend him but at last was a decente father. Sonny I think that even if someone was a criminal and do the impossibile for dont let his sons follow his way is a good father.
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Re: Can be a criminal and a good father ?
[Re: furio_from_naples]
#876953
02/28/16 08:12 PM
02/28/16 08:12 PM
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Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 2,017
SonnyBlackstein
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 2,017
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Now I dont want to defend him but at last was a decente father.
Sonny I think that even if someone was a criminal and do the impossibile for dont let his sons follow his way is a good father. 1. Kuklinsky was not a decent father Furio. 2. A father should lead by example Furio. In this day and age being a member of LCN in the US is a choice. It's not the only road open to young Italian males who wanted to be more than ditch diggers as it was once. And a father who chooses that lifestyle is not a good parent.
MORGAN: Why didn't you fight him at the park if you wanted to? I'm not goin' now, I'm eatin' my snack.
CHUCKIE: Morgan, Let's go.
MORGAN: I'm serious Chuckie, I ain't goin'.
WILL: So don't go.
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Re: Can be a criminal and a good father ?
[Re: furio_from_naples]
#876984
02/29/16 04:15 AM
02/29/16 04:15 AM
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Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,653
Chicago
CabriniGreen
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,653
Chicago
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This kinda reminds me of a Soprano scene, " The bookies son is a cardiologist? Nice...."
I feel like you guys really mean, you can't be a cold blooded murderer and be a good dad, cause I mean, come on guys, a BOOKIE is a bad role model, lol....
Again, how many street guys y'all actually come into contact with? Cause there is a lotta grey, it's not all black and white...
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Re: Can be a criminal and a good father ?
[Re: cookcounty]
#877083
03/01/16 12:32 AM
03/01/16 12:32 AM
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 8,534
IvyLeague
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 8,534
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of course you can be a crook and a good father
just like a legitimate job having dad can be a horrible father Another pearl of wisdom from cookcounty. You truly are a national treasure.
Mods should mind their own business and leave poster's profile signatures alone.
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Re: Can be a criminal and a good father ?
[Re: furio_from_naples]
#877084
03/01/16 12:53 AM
03/01/16 12:53 AM
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 177
Westchester
Frankie_Five_Angels
Made Member
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Made Member
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 177
Westchester
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I'm sure some of these guys are/were able to actually hide their involvement until their kids are/were almost adults.
"I'll give you undignified. Go fuck yourself. You, Phil... whoever. He's my fuckin' cousin."
"My name is George. I'm unemployed and live with my parents"..
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Re: Can be a criminal and a good father ?
[Re: furio_from_naples]
#877092
03/01/16 06:40 AM
03/01/16 06:40 AM
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Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,653
Chicago
CabriniGreen
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,653
Chicago
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This is a thread that more than ever convinces me, a lot of people don't get the streets;
They might read about the mob and what not, but it's almost like they don't understand LIFE lol...
Roy was brought up, you know what's ironic? HE came from a decent family, should have been a doctor. Grew up next to the Profaci boys, and his mother didn't want him around em cause she thought they would be a bad influence. But THEY ENDED UP LEGIT AND UPSTANDING, while he bacame a serial killer. GO FIGURE. Sammy the bull, came from good parents, but ended up a criminal. John Gottis father WASNT A CRIMINAL, but Gotti ended up as one.
Scarfo, had a son that followed everything he did, and had another who was legit that fought with him, disagreed with him all the time. How do you account for that?
It's easy to just blame the fathers or the environment, but look deeper.
Scarfs father was legit, he didn't respect him BECAUSE OF IT. Was his father a bum for not being able to afford a nicer neighborhood, for getting up and going to work? Roy was bullied, plus he had a bad reaction to the death of his brother, these emotional issues have to be taken into account. Gottis father wasn't a criminal, but he was fuckin broke, all the time, and Gotti couldn't take this. THATS not a good role model for a young man, trust me, and this had a huge effect on Gotti turning to the streets. Gravano, if the teachers coulda diagnosed his dyslexia, who knows? Going to school and feeling like a moron is not an empowering thing, Luciano had a similar sentiment.
I love the movie the Bronx tale, how he tells the kid over and over he lives a bullshit life, and when he dies, no one will give a fuck. Roy looked his son in the eyes and told him he was going to hell. That's real as fuck...
To say' all kids emulate their fathers, like they don't have a fuckin brain of their own. How's that different from say a black person blaming the environment, and people saying suck it up, take responsibility for your life, same thing.
Like y'all are funny, fuck fathers, I come from a family where EVERYONE IS ABOUT THAT LIFE. My GRANDMOTHER ran a whorehouse outta Bull Tavern on the west side in the 50s. Two of her employees were her DAUGHTERS, one did time for stabbing a chick in the throat, and killing her.
HER son got locked up at 14, blasting at the police like it was legal, and got shot the fuck up and cuffed to a hospital bed. Both my parents were heroin addicts.
I mentioned before my cousin was Larry Hoovers last appointed Board Member, and HIS brother was more respected than he was. I mean all my people just stuck in it. Well, I was the fuckin anomaly, the smart kid. You think I got a gold star for staying away? I was practically a pariah, and thats my point, you have to have internal fortitude man. I crack up at the Sopranos, cause I KNOW THESE PEOPLE, I'm not Italian, but I got 5 Janice's in my family. My moms is a carbon copy of Livia, right down to the dead father who's permantly a "Saint", and the obsession with mothers killing their kids. It's eerie... Lol
Ok, rant over, it's just like how are you guys so black and white with this one is beyond me..
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Re: Can be a criminal and a good father ?
[Re: furio_from_naples]
#877093
03/01/16 07:00 AM
03/01/16 07:00 AM
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Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 4,653
Underground
Toodoped
Murder Ink
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Murder Ink
Underboss
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 4,653
Underground
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There's a criminal and a criminal. Of course criminal guys with the image of Vito Genovese, Kuklinski, DeStefano or Nicky Barnes cannot be good parents or husbands, but there are educated criminals on high positions within the system, who gets away with crime on daily basis. I have dozen of examples in my life, when a lot of people and government agencies knew who these people were and what they did, but nobody ever had the chance to catch them. These guys were present on the black market with cigarettes, gas, oil, etc. God knows if anyone was ever killed over it. They got away with it maybe because they had government connections, maybe because they paid off the right people, maybe because they operated under the radar, maybe they were lucky, which i highly doubt...what ever was the reason, these people were always around their families, neighbours,friends and now, around their grandchildren. They were normal family guys in suits, always around their families. Period. I know this for sure. None of these guys ever hit their women or children.They were and still are high class families with huge respect in their own country(i say their "own country" because i think that some of these families are forever banned from the U.S. and other countries). Now they are legit(or for the last 16 years) or live under high government pensions and smile as they think of their already invested ex-dirty cash around the country and also around the world.Their children have their own families and they all have good jobs and happy marriages and im almost sure that they are all well informed about their fathers past activities.
He who can never endure the bad will never see the good
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Re: Can be a criminal and a good father ?
[Re: Serpiente]
#877097
03/01/16 08:27 AM
03/01/16 08:27 AM
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Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 4,653
Underground
Toodoped
Murder Ink
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Murder Ink
Underboss
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 4,653
Underground
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Right on Toodoped many of the old timers got in it for the good of it .
We all have a little of these guys in U.S. And if you don't well I guess you we raised far for east coast . These guys started with the fall of Yugoslavia and controlled the East European market during the 90's with connections to Russia, U.S., Italy and England. Some of them lost a lot of their investments in the U.S.(mostly Florida) like real estate, since they got banned from there. Plus these guys were not some ordinary shady businessmen, some of them were pure samurai. One example is when a 70 year old guy learns about him having a terminal cancer, then the guy locks himself in his toilet at home, takes a gun and shoots himself right in the heart so he can have an open coffin. Nobody knew about the suicide, instead the news were that a famous businessman died of cancer.And that was that. During his funeral, suddenly a number of black mercedes cars with russian, serbian or albanian licence plates rolled by and more than 50 guys in black suits, golden chains and dark shades paid their last respects. Not much of guys like these still around. So my point was, believe it or not, these people were all about their families, which of course its a rare example. It mostly depends of the kind of person that you are, no matter if you're criminal or not.
He who can never endure the bad will never see the good
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Re: Can be a criminal and a good father ?
[Re: CabriniGreen]
#877105
03/01/16 11:19 AM
03/01/16 11:19 AM
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Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 2,017
SonnyBlackstein
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 2,017
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This is a thread that more than ever convinces me, a lot of people don't get the streets....... They might read about the mob and what not, but it's almost like they don't understand LIFE lol... Was it only me who appreciates the irony of CabriniGreen talking about how people don't understand the streets, only what they read, then proceeding to talk about Demeo, Luciano, Gotti and Scarfo. @CabriniGreen: no one is saying children have to emulate their parents. But to say they don't is simply naive. ALL children learn from their parents.
Last edited by SonnyBlackstein; 03/01/16 11:19 AM.
MORGAN: Why didn't you fight him at the park if you wanted to? I'm not goin' now, I'm eatin' my snack.
CHUCKIE: Morgan, Let's go.
MORGAN: I'm serious Chuckie, I ain't goin'.
WILL: So don't go.
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Re: Can be a criminal and a good father ?
[Re: CabriniGreen]
#877109
03/01/16 01:25 PM
03/01/16 01:25 PM
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Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 601
SoCalGangs
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 601
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This is a thread that more than ever convinces me, a lot of people don't get the streets;
They might read about the mob and what not, but it's almost like they don't understand LIFE lol...
Roy was brought up, you know what's ironic? HE came from a decent family, should have been a doctor. Grew up next to the Profaci boys, and his mother didn't want him around em cause she thought they would be a bad influence. But THEY ENDED UP LEGIT AND UPSTANDING, while he bacame a serial killer. GO FIGURE. Sammy the bull, came from good parents, but ended up a criminal. John Gottis father WASNT A CRIMINAL, but Gotti ended up as one.
Scarfo, had a son that followed everything he did, and had another who was legit that fought with him, disagreed with him all the time. How do you account for that?
It's easy to just blame the fathers or the environment, but look deeper.
Scarfs father was legit, he didn't respect him BECAUSE OF IT. Was his father a bum for not being able to afford a nicer neighborhood, for getting up and going to work? Roy was bullied, plus he had a bad reaction to the death of his brother, these emotional issues have to be taken into account. Gottis father wasn't a criminal, but he was fuckin broke, all the time, and Gotti couldn't take this. THATS not a good role model for a young man, trust me, and this had a huge effect on Gotti turning to the streets. Gravano, if the teachers coulda diagnosed his dyslexia, who knows? Going to school and feeling like a moron is not an empowering thing, Luciano had a similar sentiment.
I love the movie the Bronx tale, how he tells the kid over and over he lives a bullshit life, and when he dies, no one will give a fuck. Roy looked his son in the eyes and told him he was going to hell. That's real as fuck...
To say' all kids emulate their fathers, like they don't have a fuckin brain of their own. How's that different from say a black person blaming the environment, and people saying suck it up, take responsibility for your life, same thing.
Like y'all are funny, fuck fathers, I come from a family where EVERYONE IS ABOUT THAT LIFE. My GRANDMOTHER ran a whorehouse outta Bull Tavern on the west side in the 50s. Two of her employees were her DAUGHTERS, one did time for stabbing a chick in the throat, and killing her.
HER son got locked up at 14, blasting at the police like it was legal, and got shot the fuck up and cuffed to a hospital bed. Both my parents were heroin addicts.
I mentioned before my cousin was Larry Hoovers last appointed Board Member, and HIS brother was more respected than he was. I mean all my people just stuck in it. Well, I was the fuckin anomaly, the smart kid. You think I got a gold star for staying away? I was practically a pariah, and thats my point, you have to have internal fortitude man. I crack up at the Sopranos, cause I KNOW THESE PEOPLE, I'm not Italian, but I got 5 Janice's in my family. My moms is a carbon copy of Livia, right down to the dead father who's permantly a "Saint", and the obsession with mothers killing their kids. It's eerie... Lol
Ok, rant over, it's just like how are you guys so black and white with this one is beyond me..
It's not that kids always emulate their parents. The question is wether you can be a criminal and still be a good father. The answer is still no. Forget the exceptions. Now, if your father is a criminal, it doesn't mean you will become a criminal or have some kind of horrible and tragic life. It could simply mean your life would've been better had your father not been a criminal. The anxiety and shit you go through when you have to worry about a close family member that is at risk of going to prison or being killed anytime alone is enough to say being a criminal makes you a bad father in many ways. Kids don't choose their parents so it's on parents not to make their children's lives hell. Doesn't mean that kids are doomed to a life a crime. It might make it more likely though. Another thing, NOT being a criminal and a parent doesn't make you a good parent. We always hear this or that gangster came from "good parents" but truth is we don't know how good they were. Maybe on paper they were good. They didn't break the law and run a criminal organization. So what? They could've been assholes for all we know. They could've beat their kids, or simply not paid attention to them, who knows. I feel the same about The Sopranos. My dad is a gang member and my mom is the exact same personality type as Tony Sopranos mom. That show is amazing to me. Overall as a kid a lot of this caused dysfunction in me and I dabbled in the streets myself but overall I made it out without a criminal record even though I went though so much. Had my parents made different decisions though, my life would've been so much more productive. Basically they didn't cause me to fail at life but they did set me back. The truth is somewhere in the middle.
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Re: Can be a criminal and a good father ?
[Re: SonnyBlackstein]
#877223
03/02/16 11:09 PM
03/02/16 11:09 PM
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Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,653
Chicago
CabriniGreen
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,653
Chicago
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@Sonny
I gave you examples YOU could relate to and understand, cause I know all you guys are familiar with the subject matter...
You guys DONT EVEN RESPECT STREET KNOWLEDGE, not really, not unless it came from the papers, or some website, or a book, or something you can tangibly look at.... To be honest, in the real life section, I expected a lot more real life stuff from people... Lol
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Re: Can be a criminal and a good father ?
[Re: furio_from_naples]
#877224
03/02/16 11:15 PM
03/02/16 11:15 PM
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Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,653
Chicago
CabriniGreen
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,653
Chicago
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Also what I was saying, is that you make it seem as if shit is a foregone conclusion, you a criminal you are bad, I say depends on what kind of criminal, and indeed, what kind of person you are..
This reminded me of Moes post, where he tried to say Bellomos daughter was basically tainted forever cause her father was a gangster, this sounds like the same, but with the parents. I guess my only point you can't really make a statement like that, if you don't really interact with that element on a consistent basis. My point was there is grey areas, a guy might be desperate once, get caught, I don't think that makes him a bad father. You could steal to feed your kids.....
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Re: Can be a criminal and a good father ?
[Re: furio_from_naples]
#877226
03/02/16 11:27 PM
03/02/16 11:27 PM
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Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,653
Chicago
CabriniGreen
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,653
Chicago
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@Sonny
I actually have COUNTLESS examples from real life, you think I make sense of the mob from just reading? 90% of these mob moves I've seen in REAL LIFE, that's why they are instantly familiar to me, sometimes I can't even exactly explain it right away, I just get it....... If I referenced something from my life, you wouldn't get it right away, EVERYONE WATCHED THE SOPRANOS...
Remember the episode about the degenerate gambling father? Tony talking about what a great father STONE GANGSTER pussy was? That show touched on these themes as well, A.J. Was a wreck, meadow wasn't.
I think the only only thing I don't like is the blanket statement that NO YOU CANT, cause life is grey.
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