So far from what I have witnessed, rumored or read about organized crime the Mexican cartels have been the hardest or hardcore in organized crime history. The Medellin Cartel or Cali cartel didn't have soldiers confronting the state in shootouts to protect their captains or bosses like the Mexican Cartels nor did the Sicilian Mafia. These are some shootouts that I will describe what happened in those videos:

This was part of the famous death of Beltran Leyva and his henchmen vs the Mexican Marines: [video:youtube]https://youtu.be/NCHgHe1zeCA[/video]

2 cartel gunmen vs 10+ state police officers that resulted in 2 dead cartel gunmen, 1 civilian dead and 4 wounded state police officers: [video:youtube]https://youtu.be/VeUmtwDNjaM[/video]

Shootout aftermath between cartels resulted in 3 cartel gunmen dead: [video:youtube]https://youtu.be/fgNW8GAhYgw[/video]

Clip of Mexican Marines vs Gulf Cartel Tony Tormenta's security forces: [video:youtube]https://youtu.be/nX2gtblTeqI[/video]

Random pics of alive and dead cartel soldiers/weapons/aftermaths etc.:








Anyway to embed Youtube videos?

No other organized crime outfit had the soldiers battling it with each other and the government in the streets like the Mexican cartels. I mean literally shooting it out wild west style with the government and each other. Not the Medellin Cartel not the Cali Cartel, the Sicilian mafia nor the Russian mafia even less the Triads or Yakuzza. I will start posting and translating some of the Mexican cartel interrogation vidoes but can someone tell how to embed youtube videos?

The Colombian drug gangs were in firefights with the military, including US special forces. Going up against the government is a good way to be wiped out. The smart thing to do is not to openly and brazenly kill government officials. The Triads and Yakuza have lasted centuries because of that. The Sicilian Mafia started killing judges and the backlash was harsh. They haven't killed any judges since. The Mexican cartels will be wiped out just like the Colombians if they keep this up.

Youtube is a little tricky. Here it goes...

[video:youtube][/video]

Now in between the two sets of brackets, you will copy and paste the url of the youtube video, but you must remove the S in Https. Make it just HTTP.

Really any trouble the cartels give their own government(s) down in Central and South America I consider wars by proxy on behalf of the CIA. The cartel's top members are all protected CIA assets. That doesn't mean that Washington and the Pentagon don't actually support any particular Central and/or South American government. It's just that the said drug troubles of those governments can be partly traced by to rogue elements in CIA middle management.

^ This.

Trying to take the state head on is a sign a given OC group is getting desperate. The Mexican cartels started fighting the government and each other when the crackdown began in 2006 and they found themselves and their smuggling routes being squeezed.

Escobar and the Medellin cartel tried the same thing back in the 1980's and early 1990s. But the Cali cartel was smarter and more sophisticated and saw the futility of it.

Yeah, like remember the Fast and Furious weapons thing?
They send guns into Mexico supposedly to the military, they get "Lost" or whatever, and end up causing a lot of the violence and death, that creates the political climate necessary, for the crackdown on Cartels that they built up in the first place.
But it's all about controlled chaos divide and conquer...
AIDS Sinaloa economically and politically, Zetas militarily, then play them off on each other, they kill up half the country with the weapons you provide, public outcry, now you have the go ahead to wipe me out. Now the cartels splinter into smaller, easier to manage groups...
It's all really bizarre lol, I have a grudging respect for em, it's like the Sherlock Holmes about Moriarty, something like he want to be horrified by the things the guy does, but is just in awe of his criminal skill and intellect.
It's like watching the Joker or something, grim but fascinating...
Any thoughts?

It should be aid Sinaloa, not Aids, Jesus lol

Why, yes. Check your PM

eh. Context. They're "hard" because they can get away with it. It's easy to be hard when you own the state (or significant parts of it). The Mexican cartels, as they currently exist, would never happen outside of a third world shit hole where they can buy or coerce their agenda into realization. I don't know what their current state is, but it seems to me the leaders of the Cartels continue to largely operate with impunity and even when they are caught, charged and jailed, they eventually "escape".



Have you never heard of Pablo Escobar?

+1.

The Mexican cartels may be the "hardest" right now, but Escobar and the Medellín Cartel killed high ranking Colombian government officials (Rodrigo Lara Bonilla, Minister of Justice; Carlos Mauro Hoyos, Attorney General; and Hernando Baquero Borda, Supreme Court Justice are 3 examples), stormed and bombed the Colombian Supreme Court, bombed a commercial airline (Avianca) and publicly assassinated a top presidential candidate (Luis Carlos Galán, who likely would have won).

The Mexicans do not come close to the chaos that Pablo and the Medellín Cartel created in Colombia.

You're trying to simplify things and apply what happened in a Latin American country(Colombia) into an another Latin American country(Mexico). Little you know Mexico and Colombia are very different countries, one(Mexico) much more powerful and independent than the other (Colombia). What happened in Colombia cannot be applied to what happened in Mexico. In Colombia the Medellin Cartel was trying to get into legit politics and take over the country. In Mexico, a much more powerful and stable country, the cartels have always been the underdogs operating as long as they don't create much violence and jeopardize the legitimacy of the PRI party. There has always been violence related to the drug trade in Mexico since the cartels have existed especially in the 1990's between the Sinaloa Cartel and the Arellanos Cartel family(Tijuana Cartel). In the early 2000's the Sinaloa Cartel which had support of some corrupt federal government/officials/elements decided to invade Nuevo Laredo. The most priced drug trafficking corridor of the Gulf Cartel. There were open battles in the streets for the drug corridor, eventually the Gulf Cartel won the battle. Since then the cartels started to expand in membership especially gunmen, creating small armies. In 2006, Felipe Calderon decided to dismantle the power structures between the state and cartels operating in the regions. That's when the cartels greatly starting recruiting and operating(evolving) as criminal organizations. They changed from small selected drug families to large criminal organizations with small armies(gunmen) at their disposal. Sinaloa is kinda responsible for the violence between the cartels and Felipe Calderon(2006) simply sended the army and federal police to dismantle and give security to the states impacted by cartel violence. Felipe Calderon had nothing to do with the violence between the cartels, it had already started since the evolvement of the drug cartels from small drug families to large drug trafficking criminal organization with gunmen. So since then the drug violence has been fueled by cartels trying to protect their territories from the Sinaloa Cartel that is supposedly backed somewhat by the PAN government. The PRI government(which ruled much of Mexico's history) has always been neutral as long as the violence didn't get out of hand. That all changed as soon as the Sinaloa Cartel decided to invade territories(with support of the federal government). In Colombia a weaker country than Mexico was about to been taken over by drug traffickers something that will never happen in Mexico. That's why the U.S started to combat the drug trafficker in Colombia to prevent another Nicaragua situation(this is going another direction).

That's because Colombia is a way weaker country than Mexico but more importantly the situation with the Medellin Cartel is WAY different to the cartels in Mexico. The Medellin Cartel was trying to topple the Colombian government, the Mexican Cartels are just trying to survive but at times make their own statement like killing and ambushing police/government to get away or protect their captains or bosses etc. The Sinaloa Cartel is opposite of what the Medellin Cartel did. The Sinaloa Cartel is more like the Cali Cartel there is no Mexican cartel equivalent (targeting government)violence wise as the Medellin Cartel.

This is BS. The Colombian (Medellin) Cartels were in bombing campaigns but they never had soldiers shoot it up Iraq style like the Mexican Cartels. They(Colombian) never had 20-30 convoys of trucks full of gunmen shoot it out with each other and government forces on the streets. The Medellin did close up assassinations with uzis(like any major OC) in back of motorcycles but never did they had firefights Iraq style with rival convoys of gunmen and government like the Mexican Cartels. That's where I'm trying to get here in this thread. There has never been an OC as the Mexican Cartel. The only ones close to them are the Prohibition mobsters/gunmen with their shootouts with law enforcement and rival mobsters but nothing close to the Mexican cartels.

Government soldiers vs Los Zetas:
[video:youtube]https://youtu.be/nVz1K7PfdI8[/video]

Gunmen vs police results in 1 dead police officer: [video:youtube]https://youtu.be/G8_cQMVTCyU[/video]

1 Dead Elite State Police, 1 Dead Police officer and 4 wounded:
[video:youtube]https://youtu.be/nKlPmzEdYXs[/video]

You're clueless. Delta Force and the CIA were down there. It was full scale war.

Yeah, I hate to insult people or come off like an asshole but Colombia was chaos in the 80s, I think I read in kings of cocaine Escobar killed something like a cop every 2 days, or something crazy.
These guys had the parts of the military on their payroll, shit, I think they had a Couple of militaries on the payroll (Nicaragua, Panama)..
And the above post are accurate, don't look at this violence as evidence of an organization working well, the ndrangheta are much more quiet, and it was estimated that they equaled the profits of the biggest cartels combined in 2014? 2013? I forget, but remember, this is a shell game. Like I mentioned the Fast and the Furious thing, the climate of violence was encouraged, and then the carnage generates the backlash and outrage, that creates the political climate for reform, which leads to the crackdowns that weaken the organizations that were built up in the first place.
Look at how Lucky was a top dope man, in league with the CIA, yet pursued by the FBN, because he makes the perfect scapegoat. And as he's being pursued by the FBN, they are continuously disrupted by the CiA, so they get Lucky to run their trade off books, but then at the same time use him as a scapegoat in the press. It's like a way of controlling him by squeezing him in between both sides...
You think Colombia isn't like Mexico? Look at Pablo's jail deal, and tell me something similar wasn't worked out with Chapo.
You gotta be naive to think otherwise...

in columbia didn't they attack the capital building or something with an army tank?

You definitely seem to know about the conflict in depth, not saying you are wrong about Mexico, but I mean, I think the guy, Gacha, hired like, Israeli mercenaries to train his troops, I would say read up some on the Colombians, it's crazy but true and very interesting stuff...

Yeah there were raids done by Colombian Block primarily on Medellin drug bosses that "gringos" were involved in but never 4-6 hours shootouts between 20-30 trucks full of gunmen. There was never gunmen and street battles/incursions between Medellin(cartel) and Cali(cartel) gunmen. From what I know there wasn't much tension between the Medellin Cartel and Cali Cartel which is the opposite of what the Mexican Cartels experienced. You seem the one that doesn't know what happened between those countries in terms of OC violence and what caused it. IvyLeague seems to arrogantly say that the violence related to the drug trade in Mexico is the exact same reasons behind Colombia's drug violence. Which is not.

When Pablo Escobar lost his political and military protective shell he paranoidly put a price on normal Colombian police. He was on his last legs something Chapo Guzman never experienced because the Sinaloa Cartel nor the Zetas never went head on with the state. As in terms why the Nrangheta or any Italian OC hasn't been persecuted as same as Mexican Cartels is simply because they don't traffic drugs into the U.S. Trust me if the Nrandgheta started to massively traffic drugs into the U.S they would have problems of U.S pressuring to crack down on the Italian OC power structures which would result in violence just like Mexico. They know where to move in etc.

29 dead in Nayarit between the Sinaloa Cartel gunmen and Los Zetas gunmen. From what I understand the Los Zetas ambushed Sinaloa gunmen resulting in most of these deads:

[video:youtube]https://youtu.be/ocIKayxflIA[/video]

I'm talking about these confrontations between cartels or the state that never happened in Colombia between the Cali or Medellin cartel. There were a lot more confrontations like this in Tamaulipas but the Tamulipas state tried to hide these confrontations between cartels but the videos and citizens know that they happened. In Ciudad Mier there were rumors of 50 trucks of Zetas invading the Gulf Control town without the army interfering. This is just tip of the ice berg in what happened in Tamaulipas state in 2010-2014.

As for mexico, we should not forget what the international terrorists on wall street did when they created NAFTA and paid our politicians to pass it. Took them years, Reagan tried but couldn't get it through. Finally clinton did.

US dumps corn into mexico, ending a way of life across that country and now the cartels have an endless supply of soldiers.

Imagine this guy pouring boiling water until your skin melts and he opens you up, eating your heart. This is what Miguel Angel Trevino(leader of Los Zetas) did to his traitors and enemies. Imaging him doing that to you with this stare at 1:50-2:30 in the video below. He really looks evil as fuck.

[video:youtube]<iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/NQjlwJH6Tqg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>[/video]

Fuck why can't I embed vidoes? I could in the past, what am I doing wrong here?

Pics of Commadante Guerra of Los Zetas dead in confrontation with the Mexican army:

#WARNING GRAPHIC CONTENT BELOW#

Mexican Army Lieutenant Coronel Killed:



"Lieutenant colonel Victor Manuel Gil Cagal – a high ranking Mexican army official was found gunned down in a white Mitsubishi car with Mexico City license plates along with his girlfriend in Zamora, Michoacan on March 15, 2011. The investigators found more than 150 casings of different calibre cartridges at the scene.

According to the witnesses, the car carrying Victor Manuel Gil Cagal and his girlfriend – 29 year old Alejandra Ortega stopped at the traffic light when a group of armed men surrounded the car and opened fire. The attackers then fled without a trace and are still at large.

42 year old Lt.Col. Victor Manuel Gil Cagal was in command of the 37 Battalion of Infantry, under the Ministry of National Defence (SEDENA – Secretaria de la Defensa Nacional), Mexico. His girlfriend Alejandra Ortega was a member of the Municipal Police force in Zamora."

Absolutely gruesome. Shame what they did to that Grand Cherokee :-)

Medellin during Escobar's height had a murder rate of almost 400 per 100,000. Juarez at its peak was about 148 per 100,000.

Can they make it like Nascar, where the vehicles have sponsors on them...like, oooohhhh say ATF?

lol, ok, ok, but they sure didn't help

Can you provide a link to both of these claims. I'm interested in Medellin murder rate during Escobar's height. Was the Medellin Cartel mainly had operations presence in Medellin or did they also operate in other cities/part of the country?

Edit:I found a link to Escobar's Medellin at it's height of it's killings.

"The city has earned its bragging rights. Once home to the world's most notorious and violent drug cartel, headed by Pablo Escobar, Medellín witnessed 6,349 killings in 1991, a murder rate of 380 per 100,000 people. The rate has since fallen more than 80%, thanks in part to a string of innovative mayors who laid out plans to integrate the poorest and most violent hillside neighbourhoods into the city centre in the valley below.

A cable car system, linked to the modern and spotless metro, moves tens of thousands of hillside residents each day, dramatically cutting commuting times to the city centre. Futuristic-looking libraries and schools have been set amid the makeshift homes of the underprivileged. And after decades of having to climb hundreds of stairs to their homes, residents of the Comuna 13 district can now ride an escalator 1,300ft up.

It's not just transport: education, social programmes and participatory budgets have all been leveraged to transform the lives of the most underprivileged residents in this city of 2.2 million. "The idea has been to bring institutions closer to citizens," mayor Aníbal Gaviria told the forum."

http://www.theguardian.com/cities/2014/a...rld-urban-forum

Why was the murder rate so high? Was the Medellin Cartel fighting the Cali Cartel or what?