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Re: Biggest loan sharks
[Re: CabriniGreen]
#860398
09/18/15 08:40 AM
09/18/15 08:40 AM
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 883
Belmont
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 883
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Re: Biggest loan sharks
[Re: Belmont]
#860400
09/18/15 08:50 AM
09/18/15 08:50 AM
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 5,094
Moe_Tilden
ForeverBotheringIranians
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ForeverBotheringIranians
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 5,094
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I agree. He was hung like a moose. He was a pretty big loan shark too.
I invoke my right under the 5th amendment of the United States constitution and decline to answer the question.
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Re: Biggest loan sharks
[Re: Toodoped]
#860412
09/18/15 11:43 AM
09/18/15 11:43 AM
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 8,534
IvyLeague
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 8,534
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I've heard of LOmbardozzi, Ruby Stein, Joe Butch, any other guys this level? Frank Tieri was said to be the biggest loanshark in the nation. Im not trying to sound like a fan but the Chicago mob had way bigger juice operators than thouse guys. People like Fiore Buccieri, Sam Battaglia, Sam DeStefano, Jimmy Allegretti, Lenny Patrick, Joe Arnold, Al Pilotto etc. Based on what?
Mods should mind their own business and leave poster's profile signatures alone.
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Re: Biggest loan sharks
[Re: IvyLeague]
#860425
09/18/15 01:28 PM
09/18/15 01:28 PM
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Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 4,653
Underground
Toodoped
Murder Ink
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Murder Ink
Underboss
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 4,653
Underground
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Based on the territories and time periods. These guys had juice operations not only in Chicago, but they also had in Indiana, Milwaukee, Wisconsin, Arizona, Dallas, Miami, Vegas and even LA etc. As for time periods, Lenny Patrick for example, was big in the juice business from the late 1940's untill the late 80's.Thats almost 40 years.
You are right about Tieri. I also read somewhere that he was maybe one of the biggest juice operators in the country
He who can never endure the bad will never see the good
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Re: Biggest loan sharks
[Re: CabriniGreen]
#860426
09/18/15 01:31 PM
09/18/15 01:31 PM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 3,063
JCrusher
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 3,063
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Re: Biggest loan sharks
[Re: Toodoped]
#860455
09/18/15 06:59 PM
09/18/15 06:59 PM
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 8,534
IvyLeague
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 8,534
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Based on the territories and time periods. These guys had juice operations not only in Chicago, but they also had in Indiana, Milwaukee, Wisconsin, Arizona, Dallas, Miami, Vegas and even LA etc. As for time periods, Lenny Patrick for example, was big in the juice business from the late 1940's untill the late 80's.Thats almost 40 years.
You are right about Tieri. I also read somewhere that he was maybe one of the biggest juice operators in the country Tieri was considered the biggest loanshark in the country. Not "probably" or "one of." And there was more mob action in the NY metro area than the rest of those areas combined.
Mods should mind their own business and leave poster's profile signatures alone.
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Re: Biggest loan sharks
[Re: IvyLeague]
#860467
09/18/15 09:10 PM
09/18/15 09:10 PM
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Joined: May 2014
Posts: 1,106
Novi Sad,Serbia
alexandarns
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 1,106
Novi Sad,Serbia
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Based on the territories and time periods. These guys had juice operations not only in Chicago, but they also had in Indiana, Milwaukee, Wisconsin, Arizona, Dallas, Miami, Vegas and even LA etc. As for time periods, Lenny Patrick for example, was big in the juice business from the late 1940's untill the late 80's.Thats almost 40 years.
You are right about Tieri. I also read somewhere that he was maybe one of the biggest juice operators in the country Tieri was considered the biggest loanshark in the country. Not "probably" or "one of." And there was more mob action in the NY metro area than the rest of those areas combined. What do you think how much money didi he have on the street?
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Re: Biggest loan sharks
[Re: CabriniGreen]
#860474
09/18/15 11:44 PM
09/18/15 11:44 PM
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Joined: May 2013
Posts: 999
mulberry
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 999
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I don't think anyone knows how much money any mobster had on the streets. NY was a huge market but it also had more wiseguys than the rest of the country combined.
Last edited by mulberry; 09/18/15 11:46 PM.
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Re: Biggest loan sharks
[Re: IvyLeague]
#860475
09/19/15 01:30 AM
09/19/15 01:30 AM
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Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 4,653
Underground
Toodoped
Murder Ink
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Murder Ink
Underboss
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 4,653
Underground
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Based on the territories and time periods. These guys had juice operations not only in Chicago, but they also had in Indiana, Milwaukee, Wisconsin, Arizona, Dallas, Miami, Vegas and even LA etc. As for time periods, Lenny Patrick for example, was big in the juice business from the late 1940's untill the late 80's.Thats almost 40 years.
You are right about Tieri. I also read somewhere that he was maybe one of the biggest juice operators in the country Tieri was considered the biggest loanshark in the country. Not "probably" or "one of." And there was more mob action in the NY metro area than the rest of those areas combined. So you wanna say that the crime group who had the gambling racket on the midwest locked up, had less juice action than the NY metro area?! I was going to ask you "based on what" but i realized that your answer has no point at all. So its better that we just disagree on that and leave like it is. cheers
He who can never endure the bad will never see the good
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Re: Biggest loan sharks
[Re: mulberry]
#860480
09/19/15 03:29 AM
09/19/15 03:29 AM
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Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,653
Chicago
CabriniGreen
OP
Underboss
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OP
Underboss
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,653
Chicago
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This: There are like what 1000 made guys and let's say 5000 associates? These guys are all going to be canibilizing the same markets, this is why gangsters go out of state.
It's like New YOrk drug dealers that cop in ny cause the price is cheap and there are suppliers, but move it outta town, and make more than a dealer that stays local.
It would be naive to assume the ny dealer makes more JUST cause he's in ny.
Like if you said Tieri had 20 million on the street, that's why he was the biggest, but you just say he was the biggest in ny, and that came from nypd right? But that's a NEw York perspective...
That guy I mentioned, I think ruby stein, I think in murder machine he was killed by the Westies, I think he handled big time book for like multiple families, Colombo, genovese, I might be confusing him though, don't have the book in front of me.
If I'm not mistaken castellano and funzi had a sit down over it. In fact I read the westies kept the book, and started to pick up the loans. This is what I mean, the competition in ny is fierce, it's not taken into consideration a lot I think...
i actually do think the biggest sharks were like from the 50s and whatnot, they had a lot more liquid capital sitting around....
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Re: Biggest loan sharks
[Re: CabriniGreen]
#860482
09/19/15 03:37 AM
09/19/15 03:37 AM
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Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 4,653
Underground
Toodoped
Murder Ink
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Murder Ink
Underboss
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 4,653
Underground
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I really don't think there is more action in NY than in like 8 or nine states..
More action in NY than any other city, sure, but not like 8 or nine whole states...
You are absolutely right. Take Vegas for example, you had rich people comming from all of the country, including the East Coast, spendning hundreds thousands of dollars daily and in the end when they all got dried up they would've lend money from the loan sharks.And who were the guys that lent them the moeny?The Chicago guys. The best victims for the loan shark racket are the degenerate gamblers and high rollers. So if you combine all of their gambling and juice operations in Chicago, Vegas, Indiana, Wisconsin, Arizona, Miami etc. it gives you the picture that it was a helluva good business for the organization. Thats why the Outfit always fought to get the gambling business under its wing because the ugly cousin of the gambling racket is the juice racket. Its a very good combination. Wherever the Outfit had its own casino or any kind of gambling joint, they also had their own juice men. Plus the fact that the Outfit was one organization, not five different crime families
He who can never endure the bad will never see the good
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Re: Biggest loan sharks
[Re: CabriniGreen]
#860490
09/19/15 06:55 AM
09/19/15 06:55 AM
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Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,653
Chicago
CabriniGreen
OP
Underboss
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OP
Underboss
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,653
Chicago
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I'm thinking when jigs died in 77, ruby stein went with funzi, so they put funzi top Shylock, then stein gets killed in 77 as well and that book gets lost, or at least bled off to the GAmbinos, it's the only reason I think ROy and those westies survived that sit down. Castellano went to bat for em cause he wanted that shy book, and whatever else action the westies had going, plus they were a work crew too.
So really FUnzi just had the top loan shark with him, Stein had millions on the streets, was known for years as a shylocks Shylock, I sorta remembered all this when Ivey brought him up.
Like for the time period, esp with the westside, didn't catena and Salerno make the Forbes list? Ianiello had like 80 clubs or some shit right?
They woulda had way more money for the street right?
Making him the Top loan shark cause he was head of the family?
But wasn't he technically not even head of the family?
If that is the case, castellano stole cars, lucky ran whores, you know what I mean?
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Re: Biggest loan sharks
[Re: CabriniGreen]
#860493
09/19/15 08:13 AM
09/19/15 08:13 AM
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Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 4,653
Underground
Toodoped
Murder Ink
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Murder Ink
Underboss
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 4,653
Underground
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The main thing for being a good loan shark is that people have to be very scared of you and Buccieri was one of thouse loan sharks. His reputation always preceded him and if you think about it the most scariest mobsters were the most sucessful juice men. Mad Sam was also a lunatic and everybody knew that,Battaglia was also very agressive guy same as Patrick. Mad Sam loved when his debtors couldnt pay their debt so he can kill them Even as an old man and high in stature, Battaglia still used to chase debtors on streets and used kick the shit out of them publicly Lenny Patrick once said during a court session "Yes. I am the dirtiest thing living on Earth. I don't have feelings for anybody. Everybody's so afraid of me they shiver when they see me. They put on an extra coat." 
He who can never endure the bad will never see the good
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Re: Biggest loan sharks
[Re: CabriniGreen]
#860523
09/19/15 03:08 PM
09/19/15 03:08 PM
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 8,534
IvyLeague
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 8,534
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This: There are like what 1000 made guys and let's say 5000 associates? These guys are all going to be canibilizing the same markets, this is why gangsters go out of state.
It's like New YOrk drug dealers that cop in ny cause the price is cheap and there are suppliers, but move it outta town, and make more than a dealer that stays local.
It would be naive to assume the ny dealer makes more JUST cause he's in ny.
Like if you said Tieri had 20 million on the street, that's why he was the biggest, but you just say he was the biggest in ny, and that came from nypd right? But that's a NEw York perspective...
That guy I mentioned, I think ruby stein, I think in murder machine he was killed by the Westies, I think he handled big time book for like multiple families, Colombo, genovese, I might be confusing him though, don't have the book in front of me.
If I'm not mistaken castellano and funzi had a sit down over it. In fact I read the westies kept the book, and started to pick up the loans. This is what I mean, the competition in ny is fierce, it's not taken into consideration a lot I think...
i actually do think the biggest sharks were like from the 50s and whatnot, they had a lot more liquid capital sitting around.... People (usually posters from other cities) often say that the NY families were/are always fighting over the same pie but what they don't seem to realize is the size of that pie. Aside from Chicago, everywhere else Tooped listed was a relative cow town compared to NY. The kind of money a guy like Tieri would be handling, individually or in his family, would typically dwarf that of just about anyone else outside NY. But believe what you want. By the way, nobody said Tieri was the top loanshark just because he was head of the family. You cant put too much stock in that Forbes list for several reasons. And Tieri inherited one of the crews that stemmed from Mike Miranda and Vito Genovese before him. He controlled huge gambling and loansharking operations throughout New York City, extending to New Jersey and even Florida, Las Vegas, and California.
Last edited by IvyLeague; 09/19/15 03:18 PM.
Mods should mind their own business and leave poster's profile signatures alone.
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Re: Biggest loan sharks
[Re: Toodoped]
#860525
09/19/15 04:05 PM
09/19/15 04:05 PM
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 8,534
IvyLeague
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 8,534
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Sorry what was the year when Tieri became boss?
And i dont think that this guy had any huge operations during the 50's or 60's. After that it doesnt matter anymore. And could you please elaborate with us on your statements like "they don't seem to realize is the size of that pie" and "a relative cow town compared to NY". And also i would like you to elaborate with us about Tieri's personal interests in Las Vegas casinos. Im not trying to break your balls but im ready to post a list of gambling and loan sharking operations of the Outfit during the 50's and 60's, so i was curious if you can give us some infos about Tieri's alleged multi-million dollar operations during that same period? What can I elaborate on that I already havent? Anyone who talks about all the NY families fighting over the same territory, aside from obviously having a poor understanding of mob history, seriously underestimates just how big the NY metro pie is - especially compared to anywhere outside the region. And why on earth would you think he didn't have any big operations in the 50s and 60s? You and Cabrini talk as if Tieri was a piker until he became the official underboss/acting boss in the 70s. And Tieri's bookmaking and loansharking operations extended out to Vegas. I don't know if he had any interests in the casinos. Anyways, feel free to post whatever list (hopefully sourced) you want. The Genovese family has always been considered to have the largest gambling and loansharking operations in both NY and the country as a whole.
Mods should mind their own business and leave poster's profile signatures alone.
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Re: Biggest loan sharks
[Re: IvyLeague]
#860528
09/19/15 04:30 PM
09/19/15 04:30 PM
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Joined: May 2014
Posts: 1,106
Novi Sad,Serbia
alexandarns
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 1,106
Novi Sad,Serbia
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Sorry what was the year when Tieri became boss?
And i dont think that this guy had any huge operations during the 50's or 60's. After that it doesnt matter anymore. And could you please elaborate with us on your statements like "they don't seem to realize is the size of that pie" and "a relative cow town compared to NY". And also i would like you to elaborate with us about Tieri's personal interests in Las Vegas casinos. Im not trying to break your balls but im ready to post a list of gambling and loan sharking operations of the Outfit during the 50's and 60's, so i was curious if you can give us some infos about Tieri's alleged multi-million dollar operations during that same period? What can I elaborate on that I already havent? Anyone who talks about all the NY families fighting over the same territory, aside from obviously having a poor understanding of mob history, seriously underestimates just how big the NY metro pie is - especially compared to anywhere outside the region. And why on earth would you think he didn't have any big operations in the 50s and 60s? You and Cabrini talk as if Tieri was a piker until he became the official underboss/acting boss in the 70s. And Tieri's bookmaking and loansharking operations extended out to Vegas. I don't know if he had any interests in the casinos. Anyways, feel free to post whatever list (hopefully sourced) you want. The Genovese family has always been considered to have the largest gambling and loansharking operations in both NY and the country as a whole. And its allways considered the carlo gambino was the strongest boss and had the highest number of soldiers in his time period,and surley he had a lot of top loan sharks.Also Anthony accardo was one of the greatest bosses to ever live and the outfit was very powerfull in its time,also Nicolas jiggs Forlano was one of the biggest loansharks and a tone of others.Why do you allways pick the west side soldiers as the best at everything,west side this west side that,allways those guys.There are the rest of us who favor the west side but we are not obsesed with them.I dont feel the need to point to the west side all the time... Im sure that they were not allways at the top of their game,and in one time were 2nd to the Gambinos.Whats wrong with that? Dont mean to attack you,I have a lot of respect for you.And Toodoped I admire you knowledge too,great job.
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