ivyleague it's unrealistic for you to think the outfit will just wither away

posting shit like "the last known making ceremony was in 1988"

you'd be a total buffoon to believe that's the last time anybody got made

i dont think he said that they will "just wither way" he is just saying they are weaker than they were

the last known cermonary was 1988 because there has only ever been one made guy to inform there has been probably loads of other cermonarys afterwords right up to today but we dont dont when they happened because there has been no rats

As usual cook has the reading skills of a 3rd grader.

I never said the last known ceremony in 1988 means they haven't had any since then.

And I don't know how cook can think the Outfit won't wither away. Well, unless you take into account his wishful thinking to the contrary. 70 members estimated in the mid-late 1990s. 25-30 members today (not to mention downsizing from 7 or 8 crews to 4) certainly show a decline in size. I'm not saying it will happen tomorrow or next year but the trend is clear for objective observers who aren't blinded by a bias for the mob family in their hometown.

It will whither away, eventually. The question is how long it takes.

Outfit dreamers are funny though. Why are people so invested in their local criminal organizations? Do you enjoy labor corruption?

Research ahahahahahahahaha shouldn't you be tipping cows in podunk yousuregottapertymouth? Reasearch, that's cute sweetheart, problem is your knowledge is from a book, never believe everything you read, and try getting laid once in awhile poison ivy, it's okay, it's legal now!

You actually try and research the mob, which screams you have no real life, I own businesses, you own a library card which doesn't make you yoda.
tutto leccato come un finocchio lol, relax, your irrelevant and don't take it so hard cupcake.

I came here because of a photo of a family friend, you come here because you actually wish you knew these people lol..

@ivyleague

the outfit ain't the same as ny, they've never made alot of people

in the late 90s they only had 3 crews when u cite they're alleged higher membership

plus each soldier has their own vast areas to operate in as opposed to ny

I've read the articles back in the 1990s that talk about 3 crews - North Side, West Side, and South Side. However, with the benefit of hindsight and additional info since then, those articles don't appear to have been accurate.

And like I said before, even if you want to make an argument about the Outfit's special membership situation, you can add their current membership and estimated number of associates and they're about the size of the New England or Philadelphia families. In other words, one of the few small remaining families outside NY.

I dont think the things I was talking about were irrelevant; You are citing stuff youve read, IM TALKING ABOUT A GUY I KNOW, AND THIS IS ONE GUY. Example, this guy one day comes into my work saying hey you want a bottle of Tequila? Im going to be importing it, its going to be top shelf in all the hottest bars in the City. Now he says this with complete confidence like he KNOWS it will be a success, I dont know if its clout with the bartenders union or what you understand? My point is you will NEVER HEAR ABOUT THIS GUY. HE HAS A COUSIN WHO WAS IN THE OUTLAWS,ON PAROLE, GETS DUIS, NOTHING HAPPENS; THE GUYS I MENTIONED, HAS HAD LIKE 2 OR 3 HUGE GROW OP BUST, GUN CHARGES, HE KINDA CRYPTICALLY SAID HE JUST MAKES A PAYOFF AND IT GOES AWAY. Again, this is just one guy I know, I dont know jack about the OUTFIT as we know it, but just off this one guy, its naive to treat chicago like its the sticks...

I can see maybe New Orleans, but St Louis? Denver? Bad examples if u ask me, its like u may as well include Texas... THOSE SMALL CITY FAMILIES WERE MOSTLY CREATURES OF GEOGRAPHY AND OPPORTUNITY. Like, Italians or no, I dont think there is enough business in St Louis or Denver to support a criminal gang, beyond dope...so they would have been defunct over time anyway. I think families existed there cause there was business to be done, when there wasnt the families had no reason to keep going...Its like expecting a big mexican presence in Deleware...

Also the Rizzuto thing holds water; They, the Bonnanos, mistakenly believed them to be a "crew", when they were a family of probably greater strength. Shit, rumor has it Vito made a Spanish guy lol. Also, u got the COLOMBO AND BONNANOS AT 100 MADE GUYS, SO THEY ARE EQUAL WITH THE LUCHESSES NOW? Since when?
And the outfit, really had the politics thing sewn up, I think this more than anything people dont get, like the outfit was Much more powerful politicaly than you guys realize it seems, they did really own the city. Like even today there is a restaraunt, Park Grill in millineum park, they get free everything, power, water, trash, and it all links to companies with connections to Frank Roti, who in the 80s was an Outfit Made Guy on the Fuckin City Council, lol!
Im saying, this is one story that happened to get press, you wont hear about a lot of this insider shit...

Also guys, if you hear about made guys, in 2015 still fuckin making book on the corner, and not with some fuckin internet connection being run from Costa Rica somewhere, then they are doing something wrong; If they are still making juice loans, but not semi-legit like payday loans or pawn shops or something like not collateralized, they are bullshitting. What you consider, decay I consider progression. Like if you are looking for Outfit guys, I would stop looking on the corners, and look at coporate charters; These guys are not street guys anymore, more like mini Angelo Pontes; Look at the companies supplying liquor, linens, look at the trucking; Look at any city or state projects, see what companies get the bids then cross reference;Big companies like airports, conventions like McCormick,basically anything connected to the city or state is going to be clouded with clout...

chicago has been structured northside, westside, and southside since the 1940s

you don't know their current membership numbers from fbi quotes from 2005-2007

A guy you know? Well why didn't you say so? Stop the press, everyone. CabriniGreen "knows a guy." This really is a monumental day. Cause I've never encountered anyone on these forums who claimed they "knew a guy" and expected everybody else to just take their anecdotal info as gospel.

Sorry, I'll stick with credible info from the feds and known OC experts.



The Rizzutos were a crew of the Bonanno family before they started breaking away.

I don't have the Bonannos and Colombos at around 100 made guys. The feds do. Which makes them similar in size to the Luccheses. Though the Luccheses are in better shape but certainly not by light years or anything.

Although there is a Frank Roti, you are obviously talking about FRED Roti? At least get his name right before you go on some big rant about the power of the modern day Outfit (basing it on a guy who's been dead over 15 years now)



Do you have any examples of these or are you just blowing smoke? Virtually all mob bookies operate via the internet and offshore nowadays. It's the standard MO. Yes, we've seen examples of mob-connected companies getting contracts in Chicago in recent times. Doesn't change the fact that the inner core of made guys is decreasing pretty quick.



In the sense that those were the three geographic areas around downtown Chicag, yes. Obviously there couldn't be an Eastside (they would have needed some scuba gear at least). But while there were once 7 or 8 crews, now there are 4. There were never 3 crews as you seem to be insinuating.

And 2005-2007 figures from the feds are better info than anything you or your fellow Outfit fanboys on the net are going to come up with.

Luke's are definitely a tier above to colombos, in my view, regardless of family size.

Cabrini Green you're borderline trolling bro

they've had area bosses in hierarchy since there inception, north, west and south

the feds numbers were from 10 years ago.....

for the most part all soldiers run there own crew and so do associates

in ny everybody is huddled up trying to pinch off the same pie

Whatever area bosses they had before, it's changed. The most recent info was that, at one point, Andriacchi was overseeing the Northside while the now-deceased Al Tornabene was overseeing the Southside. But that's all beside the point because we were talking about the number of crews the Outfit had years ago and today. But you, with your ADD, can't stay on point.

Bottom line, no matter how much you wish otherwise, the Outfit has shrunk dramatically. 7 or 8 crews to 4. Even you can do that math. And so what if the Fed's 25-30 member figure was 8 or 10 years ago? What,you think they've increased in size since then? Yeah, sure. Then you woke up.

And even if we assume every soldier and associate has their own crew, which really isn't the case, it doesn't change the fact the overall size of the Outfit today is the same as the few other small remaining non-NY families. All of the NY families are bigger operations at this point, as much as that might break your heart.

Now you are into your feelings dude, look, some of us actually do know Some people, it's not as big a deal as you think. lIke the one poster, he knows the Bacianos family, IDont think its bullshit, why lie on the Internet, like for what? I mean you want the guy's name, and what stores he got on the south side and in little village, I feel like I said enough shit;
Oh and yeah Fred, Frank whatever lol, I read a lotta shit just like you.
And it's like you aren't listening to what I'm saying, there is SOME things going on, but you won't hear about them. Look the fed been looking at the genovese since chin died. Who's the boss? NO ONE KNOWS, not even your infallible Feds, mostly cause they are semi legit, so it's hard to make a case when no one is complaining, I'm talking collusion here. between corrupt business men, unions, whatever. jUst like crea with the luchs, he Don't need the illegal shit is what I'm saying. The outfit is like this, why put long standing relationships in jeopardy by making yourself vulnerable to a RICO. I think I finally figured out what I want to say; You are looking at MEMERSHIP NUMBERS to determine viability, when I think you should look at criminal activity. Like philly, if they got 200 members, it's still jv shit, in this day and age. You can't just disregard the rizzuto example, it's a clear example of the made guys thing being misleading.
Dude I'm from the chi and I thought the mob was done, until the family secrets trial happened, and I met this guy into all this shit. I know 2 restaurants on the north side that still operate video poker games, who do YOU think it is, the Latin Kings?
Like some guys believe a lotta myths. Let me pose a question; you know the numbers the Feds gave for each family right? Well can you tell me strenghth of say the colombos relative to the ndrangeta faction operating in NewYork? Is there one faction or more than one, and if so are they rivals or allies? The crew busted in Queens was rumored to be financed from the genovese, yet the gambino. And bonnano guys were connected to Cali, how does that work? These to me are interesting questions, not how many made guys are in the philly family, the better question is what are they into. That's the question you should be asking, not how many soldiers dude....

I'll quote John Roberts, "Burger King has employees of The Month, the mob had made guys"...

This is what I mean

Are we under the assumption there is a person who is constantly trolling pizza? Pizza you are taking the bait if that is the case. However it could be a real person probably an outsider who wants to feel special? I mean...if its the same person i feel kind of bad their life is like that. Technology ruins a lot of things for society and im in IT

Look at criminal activity? You mean like indictments? Nobody does that more than me. I'm the guy on these forums who has tried to compile every mob bust since 2000, including in Chicago. They are one of the sources of info along with press releades, OC reports, articles, books, etc. I leave the anecdotal street gossip to others and only pay attention to a select few. And I can get a better read on the Outfit through the sources I mentioned, which are available to anyone willing to do the research, than you and some "guy you know."

I've said before I would still put Chicago above the other small non-NY families simply because of it's involvement in things like trucking comoanies, the trade show industry, residual union influence, etc. However, the membership still matters because, regardless of what the Chicago mob is still into, once the membership is gone, the Outfit is gone. Thereafter all you'll have is associates (including family members) of a mob that once was. We've already seen this phenomenon in places like Pittsburgh and Cleveland where the families are gone but there have still been remnants involved in gambling busts.

And what do you mean the feds don't know who the Genovese boss is? They've had all the acting bosses before and after his death pegged and indicted all of them - Bellomo, Cirillo, Serpico, Muscarella, Nigro, DeLuca, Ianniello, Leo, etc. The reason no official boss has been named is most likely because - as many reports have said - the family has used acting bosses and ruling panels to run the family since Chin's death.

As for your questions about the Italian crime groups operating in the US, the Italian American families will always be stronger here because this is their base. The predictions about the zips taking over the American families never really came true. We've seen individuals rise to high level positions but these guys (Gambino, Cefalu, Montagna, etc) were hardly right off the boat.

Anyway, nobody said the Outfit is "done." But any objective observer can't ignore the clear decline. Probably no family has declined more from where it was at it's peak to where it is today than Chicago. The organization itself is much smaller and mostly doesn't extend outside Chicago and it's suburbs within Cook County. Most of the political and union clout is gone. Several articles have said it's primary activity is illegal gambling - bookmaking and video poker machines. Little involvement in drugs. If you look at the evidence, the Outfit is closer to New England, New Jwrsey, or Philadelphia than any of the NY families.

@ivyleague

you said the outfit hasn't made anybody in 10 years like you could possibly know

then you said they only operate in cook county when the boss is from lake county crew

Listen Jamal, when did I ever say the Outfit hasn't made anybody in 10 years?

And I said the most of the Outfit's activity does not extend beyond Chicago and it's suburbs within Cook County.

I don't know if it's because you're just dumb, intentionally lying, or both, but you need to stop claiming I've said things that I didn't. Nobody falls for it. Most here see you for the Outfit fan boy/troll you are.

I don't take bait anymore. I won't even reply to a suspect member (possible troll) anymore. I rarely even open a PM.

I don't know shit about Chicago, and I don't claim to. I read very few books about the life. I post what I believe to be true about a general area that I've lived in for over fifty years.

I've said this before, but the easiest way to spot a bullshitter on these boards is when someone claims inside knowledge on multiple cities. Because for ninety percent of wiseguys, their world is no bigger than their own neighborhood.

Only response I will make, ONE, NO ONES TROLLING YOU, TWO, i TOLD THAT DUDE I WAS FROM CHICAGO AND DIDNT KNOW ABOUT THE OUTFIT AS A FAMILY, BUT KNOW ONE CONNECTED DUDE INTO A LOTTA SHIT,MORE THAN JUST GAMBLING, HE TOOK IT PERSONALLY, OKAY WHATEVER. I LOOK MOSTLY AT LCN AND NARCOTICS, CAUSE IT SEEMS THE MOST MURKEY TO ME. i DONT KNOW THE BRONX, OR ANYWHERE ELSE IN NY SO DONT EXPECT TO BUTT HEADS WITH ME ON ANY TOPIC HERE.THAT TROLL SHIT SOUND LIKE SOME NEW KIND OF FAG, SO PLEASE DONT MISTAKE ME FOR ONE OF THOSE LOL, I JUST LIKE TO DEBATE, RANT OVER, HAVE A GOOD ONE...

We're not gonna start with this shit again, are we? Does Geoff have to close the OC Forum for good? He started the boards without it and did fine and will do fine without it now.

Guys, you really have to stop this childish behavior. Or go elsewhere for the sandbox. Stop all this name-calling and "I know more than you" garbage. Just stop it and try to act like adults.

What do you mean Chicago has a recruitment pool? So does NY. and a MUCH larger one than that. Besides, Chicago doesn't make a ton of guys, they are a tight knit bunch.But Chicago only has what? 40 members?.

Shit, a hand full of crews in the smallest of the NY families would have more made guys than that.

I wasn't even responding to you. I was responding to "Extortion." Look at who I quoted. If you take a minute to read it, you'll find it's clear that I was responding to him and not you. I don't know you, and given your unprovoked attack on me, I don't care to know you. Have a good day, sir.

The God's honest truth? For all that I post there, I think it's a good idea. It's getting ridiculous now. Five or six years ago, before the OC section took off, we rarely had a nasty argument here. You, Mig, Beth, Geoff, Turnbull, Cardi, Myself, and a dozen other quality posters who won't even sign on anymore could talk about anything civilly.

Another truth: This board gets mocked for its OC section, and I always say the same thing: It's not their fault. That site was built to be a movie/general discussion site, and the "Real Life" section accidentally morphed and took over the board. It's nothing but trouble and impossible to moderate. Get rid of it and you'll lose a dozen quality posters. But you'll also rid yourself of a hundred stupid troublemakers and trolls who have ten usernames each.

And this is coming from a guy who's been here nine years and posts in that section every day. If these trolls and troublemakers don't quit it, shut the fucking thing down. My two cents.