You know, I got a lot to say about this, but I'm on a phone so I'm gonna be quick. I think things wax and wane, and I think things happen for a reason. Sometimes, the old has to be cleared to make way for the new. I'm conflicted about nicodemo Sr.. But I do respect the man. Don't forget he had some serious juice from NYC, and no one made moves against him, even at his most murderous. That says a lot. It was never even discussed, AFAIK

Now, his son, Nicodemo Jr, what a joke. He's the one who don't get it.

Nicky Jr. is far from a joke. He was basically a pioneer for Philly when it came to white collar crimes. He was the first to capitalize on computers and the internet scams. And the guy was a huge earner, and was elevated to Capo because of it.



Yup, total joke.

Yes, a good earner, and i applaud his creativity. I just respectfully disagree that should be the sole criteria for elevation. I do apologize for the name calling.

Luciano was deported in 46. St Louis Crime Family mobster, Frank Three Fingers Coppola was deported the same year. The two were in the Heroin trade together as deportees, Coppola went on to run his own Sicilian family, and was proclaimed the most powerful American Mobster in Sicily, only after Luciano died. That Grand Hotel summit happened in '57, Luciano had been in Italy for years prior to that, reports have it that he had always been suspected of operating in the drug trade that entire time. That meeting helped establish the Bonanno Family in that drug trade, by being the main suppliers in NY. Bonanno had his Sicilian ties, but it was supposedly through Lucky's connections which gave the Bonannos the foothold and strength they had in the American drug trade, as they were receiving them from a pipeline, that Luciano himself had help set up through other Sicilian Mafia Dons. Not the other way around. Bonannos ties is reportedly one of the only reasons he was invited to sit at the summit, as opposed to Carlo Gambino, who wasnt even present at that meeting. Again reportedly, Luciano invited Bonanno, not the other way around. Luciano DID NOT need Bonanno to sit and talk with anyone , despite what Bonanno claimed.

He didn't need Gambino either. In fact, the one time Luciano & Gambino did meet in Italy, again it was at the invite of Luciano, and it was reportedly so Gambino, Costello & Luciano could discuss a plan to frame Vito Genovese, at which point Carlo had already turned on Genovese and wanted him out of NY and The Commission. It had nothing to do with Sicilians.

I never said Luciano was LCN before Bonanno. I said he belonged to LCN and to a Family long before Bonanno even met him. Which is true.

Joe Bonannos book laid out the specifics of a Commission, which Rudy used to enforce the RICO against Cosa Nostra. That's all his book was used for. Outside of that, the book is loaded with self-gratifying bullshit.

yes, joe bonnano is directly responsible for the commission case, he was always a big, lying blowhard, and he caused tremendous damage to LCN.

his son bill bonnano is no better than his father, always denying their familys involvement in the heroin trade, making out in all his books how saintly they were.

its all horseshit, im glad to see someone understands what garbage the bonnanos were.

Luciano deported 46-yes. Coppola and Lucky Partners-no. This is an assumption. Coppola was with the Detroit family with Priziola and the Partinico group. He had a lotta influence in like four families, but Detroit is the one he was answerable to.
Luciano was in business with Vitale, a Coppola subordinate. And Coppola ended up muscling him, or trying to. Luciano belong to an LCN family long before he met Bonnano? No, he became a boss in 31 after Masseria and Maranzano. Coppola was in Detroit since 26, and from the 30s to the 50s supplied the mafia of new york and everywhere else. Now ima need you to read between the lines, follow me a little here; Coppola is the top narcotics man in the U.S. FOR LIKE 20 YEARS, GETS DEPORTED, AND NOW HE NEEDS LUCKY? Why? He didnt need him for supply or distribution.
Here is where stuff gets complicated; Lucky gets deported in 46, right away hes like "ima be boss of bosses now", and run it from cuba. Calls a meeting, says imma be boss, and some like Anatasia were probabaly happy. But others, the genovese,trafficantes, luchesse,and others could not have been to happy to hear this. Imagine trafficanttes response to hearing this. And in no time flat, someone rats him out, and hes back in NAPLES, THEN ROME actually, UTILIZING THE BLACK MARKET THAT Vito set up. Now he meets with the Gambinos in Italy in 48? Why not Vito, the top street guy in his own family?
Cause Vito is running his own show, not even Costello can control him. OK, so why not Joe Adonis? Cause Joe Adonis is also running his own show, plus hes hooked up with Detroit, providing labor peace for Ford, and is rumored to be big in drugs, see the Detroit connection? Now why not meet with a rep of Luchesse, Who is Luckys buddy? Cause Ormento is an in-law of a top detroit mobster and is being supplied by coppola. Now why not a rep from Anastasia? Cause Alberts man is Frank Scalise who niether Lucky or Luchesse or Genovese liked. And ask yourself this, did Anastasia Know Lucky met with Gambino, or was it behind his back? Lucky met with Gambino cause he needed him, same as with Bonnano I could go much more in depth but this is already a run on....

This, and the colombos are just as bad.

Where are you getting this stuff from? For one, its an assumption that Luciano & Coppola were competing in the heroin market. Alledgely, Luciano rivaled Coppola in Heroin sales, considering Luciano dealt with Vitale, as you said a Coppola subordinate, the odds are they were partners. Coppola definitely didnt muscle in on Luciano, and its stupid to muscle in on someone working for you, ie Vitale. They worked together. Not once did I say Coppola needed Luciano, being allies meant they benefitted one another, not that one needed the other. Luciano became boss after the Castellamarese war, HE WAS ALREADY APART OF MASSERIA'S FAMILY PRIOR TO THE WAR BREAKING OUT, HE WAS ALREADY AN INDUCTED LCN MEMBER. Coppola was a part of the partnership, the same way Jack Licavoli was. In the sense they both operated out of town and it got to a point where lines were blurred, ie. Licavoli & Cleveland/Coppola & St. Louis.

Your information about Luciano proclaiming himself boss of bosses is false. You got this from the Robert Hammer book, another example of straight bullshit, something Luciano himself most likely had little part in, or what? In fact, youre right in one thing, Luciano tried to run his family and Commission affairs from Cuba, but he didnt proclaim to be boss of bosses. In fact, the few sources we have of that Cuba meeting have it going more like this, it was Genovese who suggested to Luciano that he use the title of "boss of bosses", and it was solely because he could displace Costello and name himself the head of the Luciano family. Realizing this would set them back in time, Lucianos response to Genovese was, "there is no boss of bosses, this is the last time, and dont say it again, before I get upset". Thats what he supposedly said to Genovese. And it was most likely Genovese, after this meeting, who alerted authorities to Lucianos presence in Cuba. Now, of course you have the Wikipedia page on the matter claiming Luciano re-instated the title, but he didn't, he supposedly took a vote, and the vote was that he remain the boss of his family, in which Anastasia & Costello, and god knows who else voted in favor of Luciano. Which thwarted Genoveses plans, and left him at the rank of Caporegime. Cuba actually refused to deport Luciano for some time, until US had threatened to pull out businesses from Cuba, in which Cuba had no choice and deported Luciano back to Italy.


And again, the only known reported meeting of Luciano & Gambino in Italy was to set up Genovese with a drug case and send him to prison. Luciano didnt need anyone. Luciano according to reports was the top drug guy in Italy at the time, again, supposedly Coppola was only rivaled by Luciano, not Adonis, not Genovese, not Bonanno, not Scalish, and not anyone else, except for Luciano. And again, I'm not of the opinion they were rivals, they were the two top drug guys in Italy, and they stood to gain a lot more by working together than not. Luciano & Adonis were also allies, in NY and elsewhere, Adonis was closer to Lucky than he was to most. Luciano set Adonis in his place of the Commission, prior to being deported, and place his and Adonis' ally, Costello as the head of his family. There also isnt a lot to support Adonis even being active in the drug trade while he was in Italy.

Bonanno is a proven liar, Luciano didnt need him, Bonannos own family didnt need him going into the 60's so what made him so valuable and powerful? The only reason Luciano invited him to that Grand Hotel meeting were because Bonannos ties to Sicily were at the time, more defined than that of his NY counterparts. In fact, when Luciano was deported HE set up the heroin pipeline by transporting drugs from North Africa, through Cuba into the US, and he set this up with Don Calo Vizzini, and
Pasquale Ania. Not Joe Bonanno.



https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Havana_Conference

Wikipedia isnt always reliable, but even this has Luciano & Coppola being allies. Not rivals, Coppola & The Partnership had the help of Luciano for their own drug network. Supposedly.

Few things; you overlooked the fact that Lucky was in jail for 10 years while Coppola took over the US heroin market.
You kinda ignored the POWER DIAGRAM i WAS TRYING TO POINT OUT;
You see you can have all the supply in the world, if u have no distribution it means nothing. And vice versa, what i was trying to show was that in 1948, the Year Lucky met with Carlo in Italy (its been posted on these boards)who is going to take Luckys dope for him? Not Genovese, they dont get along. Not Joe Adonis, hes most likely supplied by Detroit, as he is already providing labor peace to ford since the 30s, rumor has it vehicles were used for dope; Not anyone from the Luchesses, Ormento is a brother in law of Detroit mafiosi; Not Profaci, they are intermarried with the Zerillis; Not Bonnano,they werent big in it yet, besides hes close to Profaci who is close to Detroit, so it would probaly come from them; Not Anastasia, Frank Sclalise is his man in the bronx, Lucky didnt like him and he is a Luchesse/Genovese rival; So who is left? Gambino, they set up another pipeline into NY, ran by Carlos brother with Biondo as thier main guy (at least thats how it looks) Why do you think Carlo tried so hard to bust up the Ormento-Genovese-Evola-Galante ring? in 57 in sicily Bonnanos, Bonventres and Maggadinos are there, Joe was setting up a transatlantic mafia family,Carlo broke it up and did the same thing
Also I didnt literally say Lucky made himself Boss, but what else is his attempt in cuba going to be interpreted as?
And that genovese saying Lucky should be boss, so he can be boss makes absolutly no sense, sorry. Ive reiterated a lotta times titles mean nothing really, its about power, and Lucky doing those 10 years, then being deported, estrangement from genovese and adonis, the aloofness of Costello, and the attrition of jewish muscle clipped Lucianos wings considerably. This has to be taken into account. And really that whole quote you used is from a book i read that you would probably discredit, My references cant be wrong if you use em too lol.
I agree it was probaly genovese who told the authorities, but ask yourself this; DID THE OTHER BOSSES STAND TO GAIN WITH LUCKY BACK OR GONE? I think its a mistake to assume it was all hugs and kisses. Again if Lucky is in Cuba where the hell does that leave someone like Trafficante? Isnt it interesting how Anastasia got hit for thinking he was entitled to a piece of Cuba?
And who exactly is Robery Hammer? Never heard of him, ill look him up
You make my point when you say Coppola was rivaled by only Luciano, what i said lol
And I gotta say, yall really underestimate Bonnano, Like if he didnt have a heart attack that war was up for grabs, and he got did dirty, check the other thread titled "This is interesting" with the Mary Ferrel Document, again read between the lines.
Coppola supposedly helped plan the portella della ginestra massacre and other favors for the Italian govt that gave him huge political protection in Italy. Like Coppola had power in Italy, Lucky was close to the OSS/ AND THE FRENCH CORSICANS, THEY EMPOWERED HIM as well as Vizzini, Lucky THROUGH DRUG NETWORKS, Vizinni by making him a mayor, but Coppola coulda probally demanded protection money from his home town, lucky didnt have this type of street power in italy...
Bonnanos ties in sicily were more defined,... Agian what I said I think we more agree than disagree on almost all of this lol

here is an exerpt from some of the stuff ive read;
Unfortunately for the Partinico faction, the tumultuous realm of underworld politics threatened to undo Detroit’s grip on the lucrative heroin pipeline. Tensions between Frank Coppola and Salvatore Vitale began festering after the 1949 assassination of Santo Fleres, the boss of the Partinico Mafia. Up until that point, Coppola was operating out of Mexico and working with the Matranga crime family from San Diego.

The Mexican government actually granted Frank Coppola permission to live in Tijuana, ostensibly for the purposes of studying agriculture. Instead of farming, Coppola set up gambling dens and casinos. Working with the Matrangas across the border, he also established new routes for human trafficking and drug smuggling. As long as Salvatore Vitale was in Sicily and Coppola was in Tijuana, the two hot-tempered crime lords avoided conflict. That changed when the Mexican government arrested and deported Coppola in 1950.

Back in Sicily, Coppola handpicked Gaspare Centineo to replace the murdered Santo Fleres as the new bossof the mob in Partinico. Considering traditional Mafia protocol, this was an unconventional selection. Partinico underboss Toto Vitale was theoretically next in line for the top spot. Coppola’s unique political connections with the Italian government, however, gave Frankie Three Fingers some added leeway in making his final decision, a significant advantage when navigating the machinations of the underworld.

Frankie was a political kingmaker in Sicily with connections to powerful Italian senators such as Girolamo Messeri. Furthermore, Coppola’s brother was a priest and powerbroker in the local Catholic church. As a result, few politicians in Partinico could survive without the support of the Coppola brothers. Unafraid to namedrop, Frank Coppola would often brag that “it was Vittorio Emanuele Orlando who advised me to go to the United States.” Orlando, the former prime minister of Italy, was originally a parliamentary deputy from Partinico. Officially, Gaspare Centineo may have been the new crime boss of Partinico, but veteran gangsters like Sal Vitale knew that the real power behind the family was Coppola.

Salvatore Vitale was a heavy hitter in his own right, and was not somebody to be taken lightly. As underboss he established connections with Marseilles and was on the frontlines of developing the heroin pipeline to Detroit. Vitale also had the infamous Charles “Lucky” Luciano in his corner. Luciano was the point man for introducing gangsters like Vitale to Corsican traffickers. Coppola hoped to remove Luciano and Vitale and reposition himself as the link between Detroit and Marseilles.

This was not the first time Coppola had agitated the Luciano organization. Prior to his deportation from the United States, Coppola invested in both legal and illegal gambling operations in New Orleans. For these ventures he partnered with Louisiana crime boss Salvatore “Silver Dollar Sam” Carollo and Luciano’s American representative Frank Costello. Although it is unclear what triggered the dispute, FBI documents indicate that the relationship between Costello and Coppola soured shortly after the partnership began. Informants alleged that Costello went to the Mafia’s ruling council in New York, known as the Commission, seeking permission to assassinate Coppola. Luckily for Coppola, Commission leaders turned down Costello’s request and the United States Government deported him before the feud could escalate.

Complicating things further, Salvatore Vitale alienated his customers in Detroit by supplying adulterated heroin. Still in control of the heroin pipeline for the time being, Vitale sent 14 kilos of product to Jimmy Quasarano in Detroit and in return accepted a $75,000 down payment. Jimmy Q was outraged when he discovered that the heroin shipment was mostly sugar, and he wanted to take immediate revenge. Papa John Priziola, who was financing the Detroit side of the deal, accused Vitale of a double cross. Vitale proclaimed his innocence and responded that he must have been deceived by his contacts in Marseilles. To try and make amends with his Detroit receivers, Vitale arranged for $100,000 worth of heroin to be delivered with no down payment tendered.

The two sides agreed that Joe Matranga from the San Diego mob was a neutral party and could be trusted to pick up the heroin in New York. Matranga was related to both Priziola and Vitale through marriage. He was married to Priziola’s daughter and his sister was married to Sal Vitale. Matranga made the pickup, but he was subsequently robbed. Three masked men broke into his hotel room and took the stash at gunpoint. Although they were unable to prove it, Matranga and Vitale suspected that Priziola and Quasarano arranged the robbery. Vitale demanded a meeting to settle these disputes. Senior mafiosi from Detroit presided over the meeting, known on the street as a sitdown, between Vitale’s American representatives and Priziola’s group. The mob arbitrators did not rule on the New York hijacking, but they did find in Vitale’s favor concerning the earlier shipment of “garbage heroin.” Priziola and Quasarano were told to settle their debts with Vitale peacefully.

Relations between the two groups remained cold after the sitdown. In the months following the dispute, Quasarano traveled to Italy to meet with Vitale. The Partinicesi underboss was expecting Jimmy Q to arrive with cash and negotiate further drug shipments. Vitale wanted to reenter the United States and hoped Quasarano and the Detroit group would help smuggle him back into the country. Instead, Jimmy Q explained that “things were too hot” to either smuggle Vitale into the United States or arrange further heroin deliveries. Furthermore, Quasarano did not arrive with any cash payments to square away earlier drug debts. Federal agents monitoring the situation suspected that Jimmy Q was insincere. Investigators believed Quasarano was buying heroin from Partinico the whole time, but from another source: Frank Coppola. The government interpreted the provocations by Priziola and Quasarano as signs that they were backing their former boss Coppola in his power play against Vitale.

Like i was saying, definitely NOT ALLIES...

AND ON THE 57 MEETING;
Interviewed by the FBI, Vitale’s son-in-law speculated that his father-in-law was lured to Detroit for a supposed meeting, and then executed. The son-in-law asked Matranga what happened but was told “to mind his own business.” Soon federal investigators presumed Vitale had been murdered as well. With their rival out of the way, Coppola and Priziola not only resumed the drug pipeline to Detroit, they set about reorganizing the global heroin trade altogether. It was an incredibly ambitious proposition, but one the pair had the power and ingenuity to pull off.

The Grand Hotel des Palmes in Palermo is noted for its elegance and style. Featuring fine Italian fabrics, stucco ceilings, grand pillars, antique chandeliers, and parquet floors, the hotel is considered an ideal location by international business people and foreign dignitaries for hosting conferences and meetings. As a guest, Richard Wagner composed part of his opera, Parsifal.

In October 1957, the hotel attracted a different crowd of guests. Local police found it peculiar that a large number of reputed mobsters were converging on the site. Investigators monitored the hotel for days, noting an impressive list of Italian American and Sicilian gangsters passing through the doors. Police identified a number of underworld notables including Lucky Luciano, Frank Coppola, and Vito Vitale. Surveillance teams began to suspect that Italian American crime boss Joseph “Joe Bananas” Bonanno, in town to visit Luciano, was chairing some type of underworld summit. Other than Joe Bonanno and his New York entourage, only one other American mafioso was identified at the infamous conference: Detroit’s own Papa John Priziola.

Already dealing in heroin, the crime organizations on both sides of the Atlantic decided to meet and discuss streamlining the delivery process to increase supplies to America. Through his connections in the Caribbean, Coppola arranged an increase in heroin shipments concealed in food packages through Cuba. The heroin would make its way to Teamsters-affiliated crime bosses in the South such as Santo Trafficante in Florida and Carlos Marcello in New Orleans. Using his political connections with Vatican banker Michele Sindona, Coppola arranged intricate money-laundering schemes for the voluminous drug profits that were pouring in. The transatlantic agreement between the crime families solidified the Italian American Mafia’s monopoly on the importation of heroin. But as the Partinicesi strengthened their position, the Catalanotte crew out of Windsor continued to struggle.

Unlike their Sicilian counterparts, however, the Detroit faction scaled back their drug operations by the 1970s. Two factors contributed to the Priziola group’s declining participation in the drug trade; most importantly, the 1957 Palermo narcotics conference established direct heroin links between the New York and Sicilian Mafia families. Up until that point, Detroit’s Partinico group had privileged contacts with the Sicilian heroin exporters. As a result, Detroit supplied New York’s crime organizations. After 1957, the Bonanno and Gambino crime families, in particular, established their own independent sources of heroin supply. Secondly, content with supplying New York, Priziola’s crew became less interested in supplying the local heroin market in Detroit and, by the 1950s, began allowing competitors to come in and set up shop pushing heroin in exchange for a street tax.

Got a link to these documents? And Genovese advising Luciano to be Boss Of Bosses makes perfect sense. It displaces him from running his own crime family, and moves him into a position where he has to oversee all Five, essentially he'd be the first among equals, according to the rules they set in place, Luciano would be at the top of the pyramid, of all the Five Families, it leaves an opening, at the top spot of Lucianos own family, which is what Genovese sought. He'd then displace Costello and would head the family himself. While this is eventually what happened, Luciano killed that during the Havana conference when he asked for the participants to vote on if he should remain the head of his family, they voted in favor of that, which means be ultimately had final decision over his own family. And so he remained boss, kept Costello as his acting boss/underboss, and Genovese was forced to remain in the position of caporegime.

The reason I ask for a link to these documents is because everything else, such as the link I posted have Coppola & Luciano being allies, the Detroit traffickers, the NY traffickers, they were all linked, and all those links trace back to Luciano & Coppola in Sicily. But you say to have access to documents which dispute that, I'd be interesting to see that. You shouldnt have to read between the lines when things are planly stated. Adonis using cars to transport drugs is a rumor, its unsupported. Therefore its just a rumor and should not be presented as fact. Luciano being Cuba would've affected Trafficante the same way Lucianos subordinate, Meyer Lanksy operated in Cuba for years, it wouldn't of made much difference. Trafficante wasn't the only Mafia guy with operations in Cuba either, aside from Luciano & Lansky, the Outfit had some operations in Cuba as well through Johnny Roselli, and much like Vegas, they co-existed for the most part.

I agree with you on a lot of things, but Bonanno did not chair that meeting. He exaggerated his own importance to that meeting, as well as many other things in his Mafia career. I don't know about him winning the war, no way, he had the whole commission against him, as they supported Maggadino and DiGregorio, all Bonanno had was his son, and a handful of loyalists, that war was lost from the very beginning. Again , Bonanno has lied and claimed otherwise. The Bonanno Families heroin from the 50's and on, came through Montreal and the Cotroni/Rizzuto organization, mostly the Rizzuto's. Again, they had to depend on someone else for their participation in the drug market, especially as of that point, few people actually dealt with Joe Bonanno, it was either through Galante, his son Bill, and after Bill was chased away, it was through those who held power in that family j; like Rastelli.

And I meant Richard Hammer, my mistake.

Here's the article, and you are right, a lotta stuff still must be verified
gangsterreport.com/heroin-the-20th-century-detroit-mafia/

You actually inadvertently bring up a question I have been wondering awhile now; Was the Commision originally like, a corporate board of crime, or a body composed of Cosa Nostra family heads? The thing about Vito, him running the family while Luciano took the Boss of bosses title. If the Commision was a board of "Crime Directors", It would explain the, (as it seems to me) inclusion of powers like Dutch Schultz, Louis Lepke, Longy Zwillman, Bugsy Siegel, Myer Lansky. It would explain Joe Adonis, like why he seems to be a Commision member, but not a boss of any family. It would also kinda explain why the Commision has its Own enforcement arm, the fabled " Murder Inc". But this another topic lol!
But nah, I see the logic in it. All I'm saying is that it was very possible there was more than one man sitting at that table that maybe got comfortable while the boss was away?
It's just interesting to me, like take Mangano; all lot of his problems as boss were that he couldn't control Anastasia, and a lot of that was that Anastasia was so close to Luciano. So how did Mangano feel about Luciano? I bring up Trafficante cause Florida and Cuba are His territory, and his Dad's, going back who knows how long. Effectively if Lucky is in Cuba he is pretty marginalized. Trafficantes ties in Cuba seem to be a little deeper than Lanskys, all kinda Cia type mess, I gotta find the book titles...
The thing is they got Coppola into dope since like 26, not 46, and Coppola has actual family in the mafia in Sicily, is apparently made in Sicily, like has had his own connects and networks independent of Luciano, his original sources were from the Far East I think like China, Lucky I mean. And Lucky was in jail 36-46? Coppola deported 47-48? So the two biggest Italian heroin kings in the world are in Competition with each other? Big deal really, lol, to me at least. Like Costello and Luchesse are like technically working together right? But the thing is, Costello was Luchesses biggest competition on the political arena in New York, so they were rivals in a sense....
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