In order to get an idea of new york's changing demographics, this map shows the most spoken languages by district except english and spanish.

it all checks out for me save for staten island (thought italian would still be a strong #3, at least where the russians are supposed to be), central park east/west (french? wtf) and the south bklyn area

Nice map, LK. But if you think seeing it on a map is shocking, just imagine if you've lived in this city for more than fifty years and you're here to watch it with your own eyes.

re Manhattan: If the borough is liberal enough for the French to live there, that should tell you all you need to know about the average resident. Moneyed, ultra-liberal, and completely out of touch with the rest of the world.

And the Bangladeshis are everywhere. It's honestly shocking how fast they've grown as a demographic, both in the outer boroughs and in the cheaper suburbs.

true that

Considering how much of a nuissance the Bangladeshi immigrant population can be in London -seriously, the Bengali integration is an even worse failure than the Pakistani one over there- I'm surprised to see an American city welcoming them in such large numbers.

staten island and long island are about 40% italian, bronx, queens and brooklyn about 10%
most of italians in ny speak english nowadays

given the fact that south ozone/howard beach is still shown as "italian" on this map I thought that staten island (being where a ton of italians moved to from all other boroughs) would boast a much higher percentage of italian-speakers. it'd make total sense that's why i'm quite surprised

long island is a whole different story
still not like it was decades ago (a lot of indians moved there as well + latinos and asians as usual), but a similar map of nassau and suffolk would have shown a wider presence of italophones

They don't call it Ozone Pakistani for nothing .

But Howard Beach is still overwhelmingly Italian.


Italians and Jews still make up the bulk of the Long Island population as a whole. Twenty years from now? Who knows?

TKJ,

I have some friends in UK, from different racial and ethnic backgrounds and they all have negative opinions of the "Asian" community in general but Bangladeshis and Sri Lankan people specifically. In America, we mean East Asians when we say Asians, but when people in UK say it, they refer to Southwestern Asians.

It's interesting that these Brits I've spoken to, don't agree on much but they agree that they don't like people from that region.

Intrigued me because it's not for the typical reasons that people would dislike a new ethnic group....like street crimes,etc. In America ...Indians, and by extension..others from the region, generally do exceptionally well in school, are high achievers and are viewed more favorably than other immigrant groups.


My UK buddies all say that Bang. and Sri refuse to assimilate and close themselves off from general society.



As far as the map....where is Jamacian Patois on there? I've walked through Flatbush area years ago and didn't hear discernible English for blocks. I heard some English words sprinkled in there but it wasn't English.



just jokes....no offense intended to anybody

A few years back me and a couple of friends went on a trip to London (a friend of mine has family living over there). We were in a shopping street and me and two others went inside a store, while there were two of us that wanted to stay outside to smoke a cigarette. All of the sudden, when the three of us walked back out of the store, we saw that there were two Bangladeshis attempting to mug the other two friends that waited outside the store. One of them even pulled out the most pathetic knife I've ever seen in my entire life. A friend of mine, apparently unaware of the dangers, immediately ran to the guy with the knife and smashed him in the side of his face pummeling him to the ground. Thankfully, a security guard, a black Jamaican man, also saw what happened and came to us. The two muggers took off and ran away, while the security guard called someone (don't think he called the police, I think he was calling other guards to look out for them). True story.

With Sri Lankans there's no religion that plays into role, but a lot of the young Sri Lankans, especially a few years back, still had an absolute tribal mentality. There were a load of feuds going on between Sri Lankan youngsters, leading to vicious fights, sometimes involving samurai swords. In some cases with fatal results. I've never heard they bother a lot of people outside their own community though, but between each other there have been nasty feuds going on.

A lot of Asians in London and elsewhere in the UK tend to concentrate and keep to their own community. That's true for the Muslim groups such as Pakistanis and Bangladeshis, but it's the same for Indians (especially the ones coming from a Sikh background) and Sri Lankan Tamils (a Hindu group). And that's fine, a lot of working class whites, Turks, Albanians, Chinese,...all tend to stick to their own community. But the thing, especially with Bangladeshis, is that they're all extremely concentrated in a few neighborhoods (Tower Hamlets in East London for instance) where they're an extreme nuissance for anyone passing though that isn't like them. There are even unofficial Sharia courts operating in neighborhoods with a large Bangladeshi contigent. Of course, I'm sure not all of them are like that. But while I've heard in quite a lot of cases of friendly interaction between native whites, blacks, Turks, Chinese, Albanians,...and even Indians and Pakistanis, I've never heard that when it comes to Bangladeshis. Nobody seems to like them, not even the Pakistanis.

Sorry to hear that and glad none of your were hurt. And since nobody was hurt....we can joke about it.



Guy in your avatar didn't pull out a knife, but a gun in the same setting.



Fair enough. I've written on the site before about how there are more advanced and less advanced ethnic enclaves of people from the same place, so perhaps that might explain the differences between the reaction to Bang. in different places.It applies to every immigrant group.

Actually the knife the robber in that Crocodile Dundee movie pulls out is sophisticated in comparison with that laughable potato-peeler the mugger in London had with him

the french for that area of the upper east side has a lot to do with a very expensive, private French high school located along the river in the east 70s. a lot of french expat kids go there and i assume their families live close by, prob a lot of UN workers too. the school has such influence over that small section of the neighborhood that a few years ago, a french immigrant opened up a legit french coffee and pastry shop on York basically to give the kids a place to hang out before and after class, and hes making a fuck ton of money. there is also a big french museum/historical cultural center in the east 60s near Madison too. i guarentee that the area wouldnt be marked as "french" if it werent for the school and the ancillaries it brings. there are still some old old germans in the area from when it was a german neighborhood, and a few blocks in the 80s that still have some old Hungarians.

also there are a few big mitchell lamas in the east 80s and those bring all sorts of demographics, mainly irish and chinese though. chinese are everywhere.

the french creole places in brooklyn are predominatly Haitian. those have been big haitian areas since before I was born.

Frankly I am surprised to see chinese as the biggest outside of english and spanish in East Harlem. i know that area has a huge (most in the city?) concentration of public housing, and apparently the chinese are slowly taking over the projects, especially in manhattan. they are taking over everything. the poor immigrants are taking over NYCHA and the rich are sending their kids to NYU and buying them multi million dollar condos

pizzaboy is dead to rights on everything having to do with NYC. but on the french comment, not so much. i think the area is marked as french only because of the school, not because of the liberal, monied demographic of the area. im from the area, and id say while the monied part is right, there are a lot of conservatives over here. from the park heading east until 3rd Ave, its all up-tight rich wasps and jews. the types who are staunchly conservative, but if you were to dig, you'd see they probably donate to BOTH political partis. that kind of rich lol. east of third is a huge mix. but if it werent for thst school we'd probably see German, or "valley girl" lol

They're the only poor demographic that hasn't been shoved out of the LES. And they're still growing!

And we've discussed Mitchell-Lama housing in the past, but you have a better shot at tonight's Powerball .

i just sent you a PM actually...

This map isn't correct.

@killing joke

Is Britain still mostly white? I thought the vast majority of native Britons were white while there was a 4 or 5% Muslim minority along with Indians, East Asians, and blacks.

And do you believe England can integrate Muslims into British society successfully?

I know that a lot of the French immigrants in the ny area (or the ones with money for prep school tuition, at least) make it their business to live within striking distance of the huge French language school on 72 and York. That might why they're the most heavily represented affluent immigrant community, though I can't say for sure.

I can't help but ask, why is this in the OC section?

Britain is for the most part white. I think close to 80% is White British, about 10% is from another White European background, while 5% is Black and 6-7% is from a South Asian background (and this also includes people from a hindu and sikh background, not solely muslims). But the thing with minorities is that they're incredibly concentrated in the big cities (which is the case throughout the whole of Europe), which makes it seem as if there are more ethnic minority people living in the country than the indigenous population itself.

As for the ENTIRE Muslim community being perfectly integrated in British (or European for that matter) society... It speaks for itself that there are well integrated individuals, but the entire community...I doubt that'll happen in my lifetime. It will take some time.

Killing Joke...I do get the impression when visiting most major cities in England ie London and the North of England cities, Liverpool, Manchester, Birmingham, Bolton etc that its overrun by ethnic "minority" groups - to the extent that you simply cannot enter some parts of these cities (ive posted before about Liverpool's Somali-Land). The problem isn't particularly the huge numbers, its more the lack of any want of integration by these now settled communities. The whole idea of the UK benefitting from an overwhelming influx of (non-english speaking) foreign nationals was based on the assumption of integration and it simply hasn't happened.

Luckily I'm in Scotland and we don't really have much of a problem, yet. More often the closest they end up is the North of England.

It's been like that in New York for the past twenty years or so. The "new" immigrant groups refuse to speak the language and expect Americans to cater to them. All four of my grandparents came here while they were in their 20's. And by the time they died they all spoke "passable" English, and they were proud of it. The "new" breed of immigrant doesn't embrace America the way the first wave did at Ellis Island (1880-1920). It's sickening.

Yep, you've hit the nail on the head PB, I get the impression there used to be an actual serious attempt by the vast majority, not all obviously, immigrants to actually do well in the US and it wasn't just about themselves they thought about, it was their kids, grandkids, great grandkids etc. THATS why they wanted to learn the language as best they could etc etc. It was the land of opportunity - still is, but I think that phrase has become a bit skewed over time...its more about the now and what people can take

Can someone explain me how people from the middle-east and east Asia etc. can immigrate so easily to the US? I got the impression that it was impossible except for marriage and investing a certain amount of money in a US business.(except for students)

Im assuming family connections, then having 18 kids in a row?

Liverpool, when I visited the city, still struck me as a majority "white" city. But it's true that Toxteth has seen a large influx of Somali people to the extent that the entire district now feels like a part of Mogadishu. It's a shame, because Toxteth used to have such a unique and vibrant community. There was crime (organized and disoranized) of course, but it used to be a district with character. Now the original population -black, white and mixed race- have been partly driven out and the void has been filled (and literally FILLED) with a humongous influx of Somalis. And to tell the truth a lot of the newly arrived Somalis come from war-torn, deeply tribal regions where they've been exposed to a culture that's so completely different from the European one that problems can be expected.

Like you said: it's not so much the huge numbers, because the indigenous population still forms a huge majority over the ethnic minority populations in any European country. But it's rather the way the minorities are clustered in their own respective areas.