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In communist Russia, rat traps YOU
#835798
04/02/15 01:08 PM
04/02/15 01:08 PM
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Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 576
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blacksheep
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So does anyone know the deal with rats in the Russian mob? In the late 90s and according to a book I read, even thru the early 2000s, the Russian mob had never produced a rat that flipped on his own people. I see in another thread that there must have been at least one. Is there a long list of Russian rats by now or have they kept it quiet?
Make that coffee to go
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Re: In communist Russia, rat traps YOU
[Re: blacksheep]
#835800
04/02/15 01:17 PM
04/02/15 01:17 PM
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,776
Dwalin2011
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Are you asking about the Russian mob in USA or in Russia?
In Russia, there have been rats in the mob all the time. Just to make a recent example, in the city of Kirov there have been arrests of the members of the "Prokoposkaya" gang. The boss is Mikhail Prokopyev, and his right-hand man Sergei Krivoshein ratted on him for the 2003 murder of the businessman Anatoliy Gorbushin.
Also, several years ago, a prominent associate of the Tambovskaya gang in St.Petersburg, Badri Shengelia, ratted on his bosses, including the n.1 of the gang, Vladimir Kumarin.
As for how they are dealing with rats, it depends on how much the police wants to protect them. If the order to jail a specific gang comes from Moscow, even directly from Kremlin, then touching a turncoat is suicide. But in regions that don't attract attention of the central power and all the police is bought and under control, then nobody even thinks of turning informant.
At least that's the impression I currently have, but I haven't been in Russia for years.
Willie Marfeo to Henry Tameleo:
1) "You people want a loaf of bread and you throw the crumbs back. Well, fuck you. I ain't closing down."
2) "Get out of here, old man. Go tell Raymond to go shit in his hat. We're not giving you anything."
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Re: In communist Russia, rat traps YOU
[Re: blacksheep]
#835805
04/02/15 02:04 PM
04/02/15 02:04 PM
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Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 576
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blacksheep
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I mean the ones in America specifically. But anywhere really since they're all over. But I'm curious about the ones in America for the most part. I heard they were good with the rat situation compared to other OC groups
Make that coffee to go
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Re: In communist Russia, rat traps YOU
[Re: blacksheep]
#835814
04/02/15 03:35 PM
04/02/15 03:35 PM
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Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 576
NY
blacksheep
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I figured there must be rats. Just wanted to clarify since I used to hear the opposite.
Make that coffee to go
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Re: In communist Russia, rat traps YOU
[Re: blacksheep]
#835823
04/02/15 04:11 PM
04/02/15 04:11 PM
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Joined: May 2014
Posts: 778
Castellammare del Golfo
Malandrino
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Castellammare del Golfo
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I love reading about vor v zakone (thieves in law) and their rules and codes. To think this all started in the horrible Soviet gulags in Siberia, just imagine whats it like in that place where only the toughest survive.
As much as I love CN, I'll never refuse to watch a new documentary on these thieves in law, or even read a book if a good one came out like the ones on CN.
-I shot him a coupla' times.
-What's a couple?
-Hmm, more than a couple... Really I don't know the exact amount, maybe I shot him 10 times, 12 times?
-Maybe fifteen?
-Hmm, it could've been fifteen...
-Anthony "Gaspipe" Casso
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Re: In communist Russia, rat traps YOU
[Re: blacksheep]
#835825
04/02/15 04:16 PM
04/02/15 04:16 PM
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Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 576
NY
blacksheep
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We need a really good russian mobster movie. Something gritty like serpico or french connection. Those guys have crazy fucking stories. Half of them were old kgb agents or prisoners in those gulags. Someone good needs to get on this. So far I only see russian gangsters in b movies where they play some bit part as a stereotypical gorilla type
Make that coffee to go
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Re: In communist Russia, rat traps YOU
[Re: yigido]
#835879
04/03/15 05:34 AM
04/03/15 05:34 AM
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,776
Dwalin2011
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,776
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But I also think that the media exaggerates a lot about the Russians outside of Russia.
Outside, maybe they don't have much power. But inside they live like kings and act as such, unfortunately. I mean, in most Western countries politicians avoid being openly associated with mobsters, such as taking photos with them etc, while in Russia, as long as the mobster has registered on himself some companies, he isn't considered a mobster anymore, but a "businessman", and if he pays something to charities, then politicians act like they consider an honor to shake their hands... Just sickening. You know that Putin publicly rewarded Sergei "Mikhas'" Mikhailov and Medvedev took a photo with Yevgeniy "The Admiral" Kudryavzev? When they are on Russian territory, they simply forget where their real place in society is. That's why I hate my compatriot mobsters more than the mobsters of any other country.
Last edited by Dwalin2011; 04/03/15 05:34 AM.
Willie Marfeo to Henry Tameleo:
1) "You people want a loaf of bread and you throw the crumbs back. Well, fuck you. I ain't closing down."
2) "Get out of here, old man. Go tell Raymond to go shit in his hat. We're not giving you anything."
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Re: In communist Russia, rat traps YOU
[Re: blacksheep]
#835898
04/03/15 07:53 AM
04/03/15 07:53 AM
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Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,091
TheKillingJoke
Underboss
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Posts: 2,091
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Those guys have crazy fucking stories. Half of them were old kgb agents or prisoners in those gulags. That's the mythical view of the Soviet criminals. Sadly enough it is, for the most part, fictious. There may be some former KGB agents that slipped into criminal activity and did business with criminal bosses and gangs, but that does not mean half the Russian mob consists of former KGB agents. On the contrary, most current Russian criminals with membership to one of the more notorious crime syndicates (Solntsevskaya, Tambov,...) do not differ much from Italian, Albanian, Mexican, Black,...gangsters that grow up in poverty (but even that's not necessary) and willingly choose a criminal lifestyle. Mikhailov -one of the most powerful Russian criminals- for instance was a waiter before turning to crime. That does not diminish the power he currently has -especially in Russia itself- but he does not fit the description of the mythical 'ex-special forces turned crime lord'. From what I have gathered, the traditional "Vor" is more or less a thing of the past. Now there are still former prisoners with a "Vor" status running around, having a significant amount of power in the underworld. This is especially true for Georgian, Armenian and Azerbaijani gangsters. But the large ethnic Russian crime syndicates, as well as Jewish groups that are sometimes counted within the "Russian mafia", often have far less influence from the tradional "Thieves in Law". Ivankov for instance was a gangster most closely associated with the ethnic Russian groups (being an ethnic Russian himself) and he indeed was a Vor. But there are far more examples of powerful Russian mobsters within gangs like the Solntsevskaya, Tambov,...that are not -or at least not true- Vors. Chechen gangs also generally have nothing to do with "Thieves in Law".
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Re: In communist Russia, rat traps YOU
[Re: TheKillingJoke]
#835905
04/03/15 08:14 AM
04/03/15 08:14 AM
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,776
Dwalin2011
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,776
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That's the mythical view of the Soviet criminals. Sadly enough it is, for the most part, fictious. There may be some former KGB agents that slipped into criminal activity and did business with criminal bosses and gangs, but that does not mean half the Russian mob consists of former KGB agents. On the contrary, most current Russian criminals with membership to one of the more notorious crime syndicates (Solntsevskaya, Tambov,...) do not differ much from Italian, Albanian, Mexican, Black,...gangsters that grow up in poverty (but even that's not necessary) and willingly choose a criminal lifestyle. Mikhailov -one of the most powerful Russian criminals- for instance was a waiter before turning to crime. That does not diminish the power he currently has -especially in Russia itself- but he does not fit the description of the mythical 'ex-special forces turned crime lord'.
From what I have gathered, the traditional "Vor" is more or less a thing of the past. Now there are still former prisoners with a "Vor" status running around, having a significant amount of power in the underworld. This is especially true for Georgian, Armenian and Azerbaijani gangsters. But the large ethnic Russian crime syndicates, as well as Jewish groups that are sometimes counted within the "Russian mafia", often have far less influence from the tradional "Thieves in Law". Ivankov for instance was a gangster most closely associated with the ethnic Russian groups (being an ethnic Russian himself) and he indeed was a Vor. But there are far more examples of powerful Russian mobsters within gangs like the Solntsevskaya, Tambov,...that are not -or at least not true- Vors. Chechen gangs also generally have nothing to do with "Thieves in Law".
That's right. Also, many gangs formed in the 90s which evolved in mafia-type organizations were made of former sport people / athletes that were left without work after the changes in the country.
Willie Marfeo to Henry Tameleo:
1) "You people want a loaf of bread and you throw the crumbs back. Well, fuck you. I ain't closing down."
2) "Get out of here, old man. Go tell Raymond to go shit in his hat. We're not giving you anything."
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Re: In communist Russia, rat traps YOU
[Re: Dwalin2011]
#835911
04/03/15 08:53 AM
04/03/15 08:53 AM
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Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,091
TheKillingJoke
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,091
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That's the mythical view of the Soviet criminals. Sadly enough it is, for the most part, fictious. There may be some former KGB agents that slipped into criminal activity and did business with criminal bosses and gangs, but that does not mean half the Russian mob consists of former KGB agents. On the contrary, most current Russian criminals with membership to one of the more notorious crime syndicates (Solntsevskaya, Tambov,...) do not differ much from Italian, Albanian, Mexican, Black,...gangsters that grow up in poverty (but even that's not necessary) and willingly choose a criminal lifestyle. Mikhailov -one of the most powerful Russian criminals- for instance was a waiter before turning to crime. That does not diminish the power he currently has -especially in Russia itself- but he does not fit the description of the mythical 'ex-special forces turned crime lord'.
From what I have gathered, the traditional "Vor" is more or less a thing of the past. Now there are still former prisoners with a "Vor" status running around, having a significant amount of power in the underworld. This is especially true for Georgian, Armenian and Azerbaijani gangsters. But the large ethnic Russian crime syndicates, as well as Jewish groups that are sometimes counted within the "Russian mafia", often have far less influence from the tradional "Thieves in Law". Ivankov for instance was a gangster most closely associated with the ethnic Russian groups (being an ethnic Russian himself) and he indeed was a Vor. But there are far more examples of powerful Russian mobsters within gangs like the Solntsevskaya, Tambov,...that are not -or at least not true- Vors. Chechen gangs also generally have nothing to do with "Thieves in Law".
That's right. Also, many gangs formed in the 90s which evolved in mafia-type organizations were made of former sport people / athletes that were left without work after the changes in the country. Very much true. And that seems to be the case especially for the ethnic Russian gangs that -despite the notoriety of the Georgian, Chechen, Azerbaijani, Armenian and Jewish so-called "mafias"- still make up the vast majority of the Russian underworld in Russia itself and the Baltic states. The Russian gangs aren't the only ones doing this. For instance Bulgarian gangs very heavily recruit among former sportspeople as well.
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Re: In communist Russia, rat traps YOU
[Re: blacksheep]
#835946
04/03/15 01:15 PM
04/03/15 01:15 PM
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Joined: May 2014
Posts: 778
Castellammare del Golfo
Malandrino
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 778
Castellammare del Golfo
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pmac I love that show too.. not really that great quality-wise, compared to heavy hitters like Sopranos, Breaking Bad, Better Call Saul, etc however it's pretty entertaining and the concept is very innovative.
-I shot him a coupla' times.
-What's a couple?
-Hmm, more than a couple... Really I don't know the exact amount, maybe I shot him 10 times, 12 times?
-Maybe fifteen?
-Hmm, it could've been fifteen...
-Anthony "Gaspipe" Casso
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