Fair enough. But a gathering like that today would be suicidal.

Maranzano seemed to be hosting annual mafia conventions. Hundreds were invited to a big hall on Washington Ave in the Bronx and another one in Wappinger Falls. J.Bonanno said about 300 attended Wappinger Falls. If Valachi was a bodyguard he would been an eyewitness. Of course this would be unthinkable years later.

Absolutely, and Sonny correctly pointed out that back then such meetings were more commonplace for a number of reasons. But I'm talking about right now and the recent past. Let's say post-Commission case, the last 25 years or so. Such meetings today would be retarded.

Yes but nobody really called him Don Vitone, people just called him Don Vito. That was just something Costello called him semi-offensively when Vito was bitching about too many non-Italians being involved in CN. I always thought it was something like ciccio - ciccione; Vito - Vitone.. sort of like a diminutive or belittling form.

PB man, how's it going, you still in FL? Been like 3 weeks we haven't talked.

Vitone literally means "big Vito", the opposite of a diminutive. The words in -ino are diminutive, those in -one are the opposite. For example, with the word "gatto" (cat):
gattino - little cat, kitten
gattone - big cat

But "ciccione" is a different thing: Ciccio is a diminutive of Francesco, but the word "ciccione" means also "fat one, fatty". Although there is also the word "grasso" for "fat".

That's an off-topic about Italian language though.

Good stuff Dwalin even tho off-topic
We always use ciccione to mean dumbass and gkey-aht to mean fat or chubby (don't know how to spell "gkey aht" chiatta maybe)

This has been floating around the web.



If its true Vito probably hated the one time it was used against him as a sword through the heart. Kinda like the way you nod at your worst enemy and tell him "riveting story champ."

Was it because of Campanian origins? Everybody who isn't Sicilian is a foreigner?

Cago was in the mob for more than 30 years. You can meet a lot of people in 30 years. I doubt he lied about the charts and knowing the names/faces. Not all families were as secretive as the Genovese family.

Not saying he lied about anything. Was saying that I read that he didn't really no as much as they made it seem.
Of course he probably made a lot of connections a knew a lot of people after three decades of service to "the life".
But Scarpa definitely had more inside knowledge and the illegal wiretaps were a big help as well for the FBI

Thanks again for all replies

In the early 1930s, through mob contact Dominick "The Gap" Petrilli, Valachi was introduced to the Cosa Nostra or Mafia, and soon became a soldier in the Reina Family (now known as the Lucchese Family) during the height of the Castellammarese War. Valachi fought on the side of Salvatore Maranzano, which eventually defeated the faction headed by rival Joe Masseria. After Masseria's murder, Valachi became a bodyguard for Maranzano. However, this position was short-lived, as Maranzano himself was murdered in 1931. Valachi then became a soldier in the family headed by Lucky Luciano (eventually known as the Genovese Family), in the crew headed by Anthony "Tony Bender" Strollo. Valachi remained in this position until the time he became an informer.

He was the son-in-law of Gaetano Reina, having married Reina's oldest daughter Mildred in July 1932, over the objections of her mother, brother, and uncles.

you're right redbullets the other the other families were not as secretive as the Genovese family was, also Valachi has begun with what would become the Lucchese family, also was not a soldier of such a low level as you may believe, since it was a friend of Vito Genovese that also made by best man.
Reading his earliest witnesses see who knew the five families but didn't give information on families outside of NY. For example, he didn't know that the family of Buffalo was called "The Arm" or that of Providence "The Office".

About the Sicilians they consider foreign anyone who is not Sicilian.
For the use of the word "Don", is used as a sign of respect even from me in Campania, but is only used by the old men. So once Eppolito visited Castellano in the 1980 spoke to him as Don Castellano, and Big Paul said "don castellano? we aren't in the Godfather?"

For Greg Scarpa is different when he accepted to cooperate with the FBI in 1962 to avoid prison was a soldier like many others, he eventually climbed the ranks to become in the third colombo war, the street man of Persico exploiting DeVecchio for information to kill 19 the men of Orena.

^^^yea furio it was incredible how Scarpa played the entire Colombo family like a master chess player. Blaming hits on the Orena faction and then blaming hits on the Persico faction. All the while feeding the lies to DeVecchio. I know Lin was sure to be up to no good with Scarpa but he was definetly still getting told lies as well.

Scarpa pretty much single handily started the third Colombo war. With the help of others but the others only reacting to what he is saying.

So I was reading that it's a possibility that when little Linda and her kid and Scarpa nearly were shot, that could have been made up. So Scarpa had justification for going out and killing.
I thought there were more witnesses then just the two of them?

Made up how? It never happened? I think it did. I remember watching this documentary on the Orena family and basically Orena's son said that Wild Bill Cutolo organized the hit on Scarpa which was botched. Now I know the son isn't a made guy, but still he should have some knowledge.
Or unless you mean he set it up with others so they'd fire blank rounds at them? I have no idea, honestly you never know with Scarpa. He was one clever, tough son of a bitch.

I was reading deal with the devil and they were talking about how it's a possibility that the attempted hit never took place. It was Scarpa that said it was guys from Wild Bills crew to DeVecchio.
That was the first time I heard that though. That why I brought it up. Little Linda said it happen, Greg said if happen. I just thought there were more witnesses.

Phillymob,the purpose of the FBI has always been to destroy La Cosa Nostra by any means, so as to destroy the Patriarca used at Bulger and Martorano,so DeVecchio has done his duty trying to destroy the Colombo family, on the one hand he will not be seemed true that Colombo began a war and that his protégé Greg Scarpa was in the center of the war; both have gained all: devecchio that from 1962 to 1993 in addition to sending several times in prison Persico has done arrest or kill dozens of men of the family, and Greg Scarpa not only avoiding various times to be indicted (so much so that there were suspects that he was a rat) but also did win his faction by killing 19 men of Orena.

It's hard to understand what you wrote here Furio (are you using Google Translate?). But if you are saying that DeVecchio himself was in fact the highest level of manipulation in the Scarpa saga, I am going to have to agree with that. Scarpa was the puppet, not DeVecchio.

I'm sure Costello probably meant they're all foreigners in the country they did business in.

It's crazy that DeVecchio was granted immunity from the indictments. But if they would of nailed him all the other Colombo arrests they made would be out the window.
It's a shitty system we go by. The system only works for those the government want to work for.

To the time frame with DeVecchio and Scarpa I think it was 1980-1994 up until Scarpa died. From 62-75 he was with two FBI handlers I forget their names right now. From 75-80 he pretty much had no contact with the FBI I believe.

That's exactly what he meant. It was meant as an ironic (and a little sarcastic) statement.

That "Don Vitone" quote came from "The Last Testament of Lucky Luciano." Anything that's in that book is suspect so that quote could have been made up by Martin Gosch himself and put in Luciano's mouth.

https://books.google.com/books?id=EV6jZzpjBOcC&pg=PT33&lpg=PT33&dq=foreigner+%22don+vitone%22&source=bl&ots=rM7-Aheuvy&sig=zKdnyx0yugNKcqkLsHMXiOPZW8U&hl=en&sa=X&ei=0mnMVNfLAYmuogSOl4Jg&ved=0CCMQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=foreigner%20%22don%20vitone%22&f=false

Sorry Alfa Romeo I use google translate only when I'm in a hurry.
what I meant is that the fbi especially after Hoover tried to destroy La Cosa Nostra without going too fussy, so he used Bulger to weaken the Patriarca, even Bulger helped put the microphones in the headquarters of Jerry Angiulo in the early 80s,in 1968 Peter Limone, Joseph Salvati, Henry Tameleo and Louis Greco were convicted for the murder of Edward "Teddy" Deegan, that was really committed by Vincent Flemmi that was helped by Barboza which was covered FBI agent Paul Rico.

In the case DeVecchio-Scarpa, there was a convergence of interests. Scarpa knew he could do what he wanted, and keep his backs up as long as gave good information to Devecchio, that could seriously from damage the Colombo.

From wikipedia

In 1985, federal prosecutors indicted Scarpa for running a major credit card scam. After Scarpa pleaded guilty, prosecutors asked the court to give him a sizable fine and a prison sentence. However, DeVecchio submitted a memo to the judge that listed all of Scarpa's contributions to the FBI. The judge finally sentenced Scarpa to five years probation with no prison time and a $10,000 fine. Colombo family members were so surprised by Scarpa's light sentence that some started wondering if he was working for the government

Scarpa's status as an informer was only revealed in 1995, during a racketeering and murder trial of seven members of the Orena faction. At that time, former Colombo family consigliere Carmine Sessa, now a government witness, told prosecutors about DeVecchio's unusual and corrupt relationship with Scarpa.Eventually, prosecutors were forced to reveal that DeVecchio might have revealed confidential information, including information about former Colombo wiseguys who had turned informer, to Scarpa. Ultimately, 19 Orena supporters had murder charges thrown out or murder convictions reversed after their attorneys contended DeVecchio's collaboration with Scarpa tainted the evidence against them. The attorneys argued that DeVecchio gave Scarpa information he used to kill members of the Orena faction, thus making any killings committed by their clients acts of self-defense.

Eventually both Scarpa that DeVecchio had what they wanted.
I hope I have written all right.