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Who was right Richie or Beansie? #824488
01/18/15 03:22 AM
01/18/15 03:22 AM
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Castellammare del Golfo
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Based purely on Cosa Nostra rules, if things came to a sit-down, who would you rule in favor of? (Tony is not involved in this scenario)

Sure, the information is rather limited, but just because Beansie is more likable as a character doesn't make him automatically right. Richie was a made man and a capo, and Beansie was just an associate.
It's stated that they were partners in the drug business using the pizzeria as a front (obviously based on the Pizza connection) with Richie getting the lion's share. Then he got pinched and went to prison, while Beansie was left with the pizzeria which he ran and expanded and later kicked up to Tony, who's the boss.
Beansie also has a right to this because he put a lot into the business and took care of it while Richie was away plus he's kicking up to the boss so he should be safe. However, Richie also has a legitimate beef, because that was his racket and now he's being pushed aside and even his own boss is playing favorites against him after he's done 10 years and never ratted on the family.

My opinion- Beansie should have given him about 10% just out of respect and he'd still be walking.. or otherwise Tony should have been less greedy and should have shared the money Beansie kicked up to him with Richie. What do you guys think?


-I shot him a coupla' times.
-What's a couple?
-Hmm, more than a couple... Really I don't know the exact amount, maybe I shot him 10 times, 12 times?
-Maybe fifteen?
-Hmm, it could've been fifteen...

-Anthony "Gaspipe" Casso
Re: Who was right Richie or Beansie? [Re: Malandrino] #824491
01/18/15 05:00 AM
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Footreads Offline
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beansie incidently I knew the actor that played him. He was the meeter and greater at the cafe central restraunt. That is how he got into making movies in the first place. He knew a lot of movie people from his job there.

I think if I was him I would take any money He had and took the wife and get the fuck out of there. He was dealing with a nut job. he was not a kid anymore and should have made some money if he did not piss it away. Then he calls tony his friend smile and tells why he had to get out.


only the unloved hate
Re: Who was right Richie or Beansie? [Re: Malandrino] #824497
01/18/15 06:22 AM
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waynethegame Offline
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Neither of them were right IMHO. First, was it established that Beansie was still engaged in illicit doings and kicking a vig up to Tony? I thought it was basically hinted that in the 10 years Richie was incarcerated Beansie went legit.

In any event, Richie should have gone to Tony and gotten him to intervene, instead of going and trying to shake Beansie down. Richie was way out of line. If Tony felt that Richie was owed something, I bet Beansie would have been a lot more likely (although still reluctantly) to give Richie a cut than having Richie come there, talk shit and then beat him up (and later try to kill him).

It probably woulnd't have helped him but Beansie should have told Richie to A) Come and talk to him later (i.e. not in front of customers), and B) If he was paying Tony while Richie was in prison, that Richie needs to get Tony involved and let Tony decide what, if anything, Richie should get.

Last edited by waynethegame; 01/18/15 06:23 AM.

Wayne

"Finance is a gun. Politics is knowing when to pull the trigger."
Don Lucchesi
Re: Who was right Richie or Beansie? [Re: Malandrino] #824515
01/18/15 09:52 AM
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Richie was wrong, and Beansie was in a no-win situation (he lamented as such before Richie attacked him). Richie knew Beansie was kicking up to Tony, because he mocked Beansie only had his success by sucking up to Tony. And at that point, I think Richie was fresh out of prison and not spoken to Tony; their reunion was a few scenes later in front of Satriale's.

Like Richie, Feech LaManna had an extended prison term, and his revenue generators went elsewhere, notably the Executive Card Game (which at the time was Tony's). Unlike Richie, Feech went to Tony and asked for the game back.

Granted, there wasn't a store owner to lean on, but Feech showed the proper protocol in getting his earnings back. Had Richie taken the same approach, Tony would have been more amenable to giving Richie part or all of Beansie's tribute.


Re: Who was right Richie or Beansie? [Re: Its_da_Jackeeettttttt] #824523
01/18/15 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted By: Its_da_Jackeeettttttt
Richie was wrong, and Beansie was in a no-win situation (he lamented as such before Richie attacked him). Richie knew Beansie was kicking up to Tony, because he mocked Beansie only had his success by sucking up to Tony. And at that point, I think Richie was fresh out of prison and not spoken to Tony; their reunion was a few scenes later in front of Satriale's.

Like Richie, Feech LaManna had an extended prison term, and his revenue generators went elsewhere, notably the Executive Card Game (which at the time was Tony's). Unlike Richie, Feech went to Tony and asked for the game back.

Granted, there wasn't a store owner to lean on, but Feech showed the proper protocol in getting his earnings back. Had Richie taken the same approach, Tony would have been more amenable to giving Richie part or all of Beansie's tribute.



Exactly. Feech went to the boss, Richie still figured Tony was some dumb kid, his brother's sidekick, and treated him as such. In fact that was Richie's biggest problem. He came out of prison with a huge sense of entitlement because his brother was Jackie Aprile Sr and expected everyone to kiss his ass because of it. He never got it through his head that times change and that Tony wasn't some punk, he was the boss, and Richie should have respected that.


Wayne

"Finance is a gun. Politics is knowing when to pull the trigger."
Don Lucchesi
Re: Who was right Richie or Beansie? [Re: Malandrino] #824625
01/18/15 09:17 PM
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Of course Feech also didn't have a lot of respect for Tony as boss -- remember that snide "boy king" remark he made to Tony Blundetto? Come to think of it, he never did finish that rant about Tony, opting to kick the shit out of Sal Vitro instead.

Re: Who was right Richie or Beansie? [Re: Malandrino] #824707
01/19/15 01:10 PM
01/19/15 01:10 PM
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I always felt sorry for Beansie, i saw it as him investing his money and then Ritchie shaking him down.


The Mafia Is Not Primarily An Organisation Of Murderers.
First And Foremost,The Mafia Is Made Up Of Thieves.
It Is Driven By Greed And Controlled By Fear.

Between The Law And The Mafia, The Law Is Not The Most To Be Feared

"What if the Mafia were not an organization but a widespread Sicilian attitude of hostility towards the law?"

"Make Love Not War" John Lennon
Re: Who was right Richie or Beansie? [Re: Malandrino] #824715
01/19/15 01:53 PM
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Exactly. Beansie invested his (smaller) heroin share wisely and stayed under the radar, whereas Richie being Richie, probably did something stupid to catch the attention of law enforcement.

You know, things like kicking the shit out of a store owner in front of the entire restaurant. Or firing a gun in the middle of traffic. Or selling coke on a garbage route. Or dumping garbage in a problem customer's parking lot. Or buying a 4,500 square foot house with no visible means of support.

Re: Who was right Richie or Beansie? [Re: Malandrino] #824720
01/19/15 02:12 PM
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This is why I said it's a pure Cosa Nostra situation, or a hypothetical sitdown where Tony is not involved, so that your character preference should be irrelevant.

Knowing the mob I'm pretty sure they'd just settle for dividing the loot among their own and the only victim would be the mark (Beansie) who'd probably have to kick up more.


-I shot him a coupla' times.
-What's a couple?
-Hmm, more than a couple... Really I don't know the exact amount, maybe I shot him 10 times, 12 times?
-Maybe fifteen?
-Hmm, it could've been fifteen...

-Anthony "Gaspipe" Casso
Re: Who was right Richie or Beansie? [Re: Malandrino] #824763
01/19/15 05:38 PM
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Was Beansie Made?

If not, Richie back on the route and ova Due, no madda what,

If Beansie Made, I agree above to MALANDRINO call.


Be Loyal, Be Loving, Be Quiet.
Re: Who was right Richie or Beansie? [Re: Malandrino] #824782
01/19/15 06:30 PM
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Beansie was not made. Before Richie assaulted him, he points out that because Richie is a made guy, Beansie loses either way.

But if Beansie was kicking up to Tony, Richie was in the wrong for going behind the boss' back - Beansie "belonged" to Tony. Before Richie ran over Beansie, Tony explicitly told Richie to back off Richie's business.

It's a respect thing - remember how Silvio barged into Ralphie's house looking for Tracee? Ralphie was visibly angry, but he backed off immediately when Sivlio brought up the money she owed.

Paulie did the exact same thing after Tony brokered the Barone Sanitation sale - shaking down a civilian for more money. If word got back to Tony, Paulie might be looking at a bullet to the head.

Then again, there's not many written laws and precedents when it comes to operating large scale criminal enterprises.

Re: Who was right Richie or Beansie? [Re: Malandrino] #824785
01/19/15 06:41 PM
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I get that, and still say he should have just gave it up to Richie and let Tony know he has been redirected.

Then let them work it out or like mentioned, maybe Beansies would have suffered a double up and face major increase in his kick in rather than getting his ass kicked in.


Be Loyal, Be Loving, Be Quiet.
Re: Who was right Richie or Beansie? [Re: Malandrino] #824793
01/19/15 07:07 PM
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I guess back to the original question - if it came to a sit down, I suspect Beansie would have paid Richie and not Tony. Tony had taken all of Junior's earnings in the previous episode, and that would been an opportunity for Junior to jam it back at Tony.


Re: Who was right Richie or Beansie? [Re: Malandrino] #824821
01/20/15 06:12 AM
01/20/15 06:12 AM
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waynethegame Offline
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It's highly likely if there was a sit-down, Beansie would be told to pay Richie, but then he'd probably have done it. Richie was just trying to bully him on his own, with zero backing from anyone, even if his claim was legitimate.


Wayne

"Finance is a gun. Politics is knowing when to pull the trigger."
Don Lucchesi
Re: Who was right Richie or Beansie? [Re: Its_da_Jackeeettttttt] #824824
01/20/15 07:09 AM
01/20/15 07:09 AM
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goombah Offline
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Originally Posted By: Its_da_Jackeeettttttt


Like Richie, Feech LaManna had an extended prison term, and his revenue generators went elsewhere, notably the Executive Card Game (which at the time was Tony's). Unlike Richie, Feech went to Tony and asked for the game back.

Granted, there wasn't a store owner to lean on, but Feech showed the proper protocol in getting his earnings back. Had Richie taken the same approach, Tony would have been more amenable to giving Richie part or all of Beansie's tribute.


Beansie was screwed either way. I think Tony nailed it when he said "since when did you ever give a f--k about anyone but Richie Aprile?"

On this Feech thing, did that happen before or after Tony had Feech in for a lecture? Recall Tony said "this is the 2nd time I'm playing catch up with you."

Feech was every bit the thorn in Tony's side that Richie was in Season 2. I think the main differences were 1) Tony looked up to Feech given their age difference and 2) Probably subconsciously Tony wanted to stay in Feech's good graces considering Tony's role in the stick up of Feech's card game when Tony was younger. There was always that minute chance that Feech could decide to avenge the stick-up. Not that I think Feech would have been looking to whack Tony who was the boss when Feech got out of jail. But look at all the times Feech referred to Tony as "kid."

Re: Who was right Richie or Beansie? [Re: Malandrino] #824843
01/20/15 09:34 AM
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And Feech would always patronize Tony by calling him "Godfather" even though Tony didn't like it.


The Mafia Is Not Primarily An Organisation Of Murderers.
First And Foremost,The Mafia Is Made Up Of Thieves.
It Is Driven By Greed And Controlled By Fear.

Between The Law And The Mafia, The Law Is Not The Most To Be Feared

"What if the Mafia were not an organization but a widespread Sicilian attitude of hostility towards the law?"

"Make Love Not War" John Lennon
Re: Who was right Richie or Beansie? [Re: goombah] #824869
01/20/15 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted By: goombah
Originally Posted By: Its_da_Jackeeettttttt


Like Richie, Feech LaManna had an extended prison term, and his revenue generators went elsewhere, notably the Executive Card Game (which at the time was Tony's). Unlike Richie, Feech went to Tony and asked for the game back.

Granted, there wasn't a store owner to lean on, but Feech showed the proper protocol in getting his earnings back. Had Richie taken the same approach, Tony would have been more amenable to giving Richie part or all of Beansie's tribute.


Beansie was screwed either way. I think Tony nailed it when he said "since when did you ever give a f--k about anyone but Richie Aprile?"

On this Feech thing, did that happen before or after Tony had Feech in for a lecture? Recall Tony said "this is the 2nd time I'm playing catch up with you."

Feech was every bit the thorn in Tony's side that Richie was in Season 2. I think the main differences were 1) Tony looked up to Feech given their age difference and 2) Probably subconsciously Tony wanted to stay in Feech's good graces considering Tony's role in the stick up of Feech's card game when Tony was younger. There was always that minute chance that Feech could decide to avenge the stick-up. Not that I think Feech would have been looking to whack Tony who was the boss when Feech got out of jail. But look at all the times Feech referred to Tony as "kid."


I'm presuming the lecture you're referring to is the one where Tony told him to shut up with the stories from the past? If memory serves me right, that lecture was immediately after he knocked off the cars at Dr. Freid's daughter's wedding. Feech saw that opportunity at the first of two Executive Card Games (the one with Lawrence Taylor and Bernie Brillstein).

Feech was much more passive-aggressive with Tony than Richie was, and it depended on what leverage Feech had - when he asked for the card game back, it was almost hat in hand begging. He had no leverage, since the client list was far different than when he had his game. But even before groveling, he was still irritating Tony and Silvio with DiMeo Story Time with Christopher and Benny. Even with Paulie's bookmaking operation, he was still respectful of who owned a particular client.

But his new enterprises - car theft and lawn care rackets - he was content to keep that from Tony as long as possible. With the car theft, he moved the cars via Johnny Sack's contacts. It only attracted Tony's attention when both situations got out of control - Paulie kicking the shit out of Feech's cousin, and Dr. Freid complaining directly to Tony.

And Tony's assessment of Richie was spot on, even though Tony was fueling the fire by high-handing Richie (he pulled the "gotta go" bit before he learned about Beansie's beating). Richie only cared about Richie, and that definitely included shaking down Beansie on his own, with zero regard where Beansie was kicking up to.

Re: Who was right Richie or Beansie? [Re: Malandrino] #824931
01/21/15 01:33 AM
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Hes got tremendous moxie for his size.

Re: Who was right Richie or Beansie? [Re: Malandrino] #824956
01/21/15 07:02 AM
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But he just couldn't sell it....

Re: Who was right Richie or Beansie? [Re: DE NIRO] #824958
01/21/15 07:14 AM
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Castellammare del Golfo
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Originally Posted By: DE NIRO
And Feech would always patronize Tony by calling him "Godfather" even though Tony didn't like it.


Or by calling him "Don Antonio" lol


-I shot him a coupla' times.
-What's a couple?
-Hmm, more than a couple... Really I don't know the exact amount, maybe I shot him 10 times, 12 times?
-Maybe fifteen?
-Hmm, it could've been fifteen...

-Anthony "Gaspipe" Casso
Re: Who was right Richie or Beansie? [Re: Malandrino] #825064
01/21/15 08:50 PM
01/21/15 08:50 PM
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NinoBrown Offline
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Beansie knew the rules, "You're a Made Guy, so I lose either way". I would reluctantly rule in Richie's favor despite my misgivings about it, as Tony said: "Chain of command is important in our thing"...

Re: Who was right Richie or Beansie? [Re: NinoBrown] #825245
01/23/15 04:28 AM
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Originally Posted By: NinoBrown
Beansie knew the rules, "You're a Made Guy, so I lose either way". I would reluctantly rule in Richie's favor despite my misgivings about it, as Tony said: "Chain of command is important in our thing"...


True, but Richie still went about it the wrong way by trying to shakedown Beansie instead of following the chain of command. I think Beansie was so reluctant because Richie was just trying to bully him, and if there had been a sit-down or something with Tony deciding that Beansie had to give Richie X% of a cut, he would have grumbled but ultimately accepted it.

Of course I don't think there was anything he could have done. Even if, during the confrontation, Beansie had told Richie he needs to get Tony involved, Richie would have probably taken it as an insult and beaten the shit out of him anyways.

So poor Beansie was screwed no matter what.


Wayne

"Finance is a gun. Politics is knowing when to pull the trigger."
Don Lucchesi
Re: Who was right Richie or Beansie? [Re: Malandrino] #825264
01/23/15 07:26 AM
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Richie also felt Beansie disrespected him - in the shakedown, Richie complains that there wasn't even a "go fuck yourself" from Beansie, then before running him over, Richie felt slighted Beansie was a no show at the welcome back party.

Re: Who was right Richie or Beansie? [Re: Malandrino] #825598
01/25/15 07:07 AM
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Footreads Offline
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You think he gave a shit whether beanie was at the party or not. But he did expect a fat envelope from Beansie sent by someone from beansie.


only the unloved hate
Re: Who was right Richie or Beansie? [Re: Footreads] #825707
01/25/15 07:37 PM
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Originally Posted By: Footreads
You think he gave a shit whether beanie was at the party or not. But he did expect a fat envelope from Beansie sent by someone from beansie.


Yes, beansie not being present makes it easy for Richie to move into a violent stamp on his prey.


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Re: Who was right Richie or Beansie? [Re: Malandrino] #825713
01/25/15 07:52 PM
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Richie felt that Beansie going to Tony was an insult. A no show would be doubling down on the insult -- Richie being "from da ol' skoooool" probably would have been insulted had Beansie sent an envelope via third party.

Re: Who was right Richie or Beansie? [Re: Malandrino] #825718
01/25/15 08:23 PM
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No one sends envelopes......

They are only presented in person, descreatly. Or they are not "envelopes".

Descreatly means / everyone in the know, knows.


Be Loyal, Be Loving, Be Quiet.
Re: Who was right Richie or Beansie? [Re: Malandrino] #825723
01/25/15 08:57 PM
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So what will he rather get no Beansie and no money?

Or Beansie with no money.

Or money 100 hundred thou and no Beansie. Beanbag Is afraid of Richie and he should be.

it is not clear beanies money comes from a string of pizza places he owns. He is laundering Tony's money through them. He making money from the pizza places and he is getting some percentage from tony for laundering the money.

Richie gets his end which could be 100 thou up front. Plus control of a few pizza places. That would satisfy a normal person. But Richie boy is far from normal.


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Re: Who was right Richie or Beansie? [Re: Malandrino] #825727
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In the end, it cost Richie more than what he would have extorted. Beansie never had to kick up to him, and from that point, Tony almost went out of his way to piss on Richie - the Scatino bust out, the garbage route coke dealing and the new garbage contracts.

Re: Who was right Richie or Beansie? [Re: Malandrino] #950188
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08/15/18 04:22 AM
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 259
Quiet_Doms Offline
Capo
Quiet_Doms  Offline
Capo
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 259
If a guy puts you in position to earn you owe him nothing but your loyalty.


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