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Did Rizzuto Induct Non-Italians?
#816479
12/01/14 08:46 PM
12/01/14 08:46 PM
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Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 203
K1NG6
OP
Made Member
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OP
Made Member
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 203
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Saw this on another site and was wondering if anyone else read this or if it was covered in another thread here? This guy has posted some bullshit articles on his site in the past (including Borgesi being the boss in Philly and the DeCavalcante family having 80 made men) and claims he has multiple sources in law enforcement and on the street in different cities. Just wondering if he's full of shit again, or if this story actually has some merit behind it. The original story was ran by the National Post and included a conversation that was caught on a wiretap by one of the "supposed" made men who wasn't Italian. Here's an excerpt:According to published reports concerning wiretap recordings released following the discovery of the bodies in Sicily, Rizzuto had apparently permitted the "making" of men not of Italian descent, breaking a cardinal rule as old as the Sicilian Cosa Nostra.
One of the bodies found (after an anonymous tipster phoned police) was that of Juan Ramon Fernandez Paz, aka "Joe Bravo." He and his associate, Fernando Pimentel, were slain in a hail of bullets, then the assassins burned the bodies in an attempt to make them disappear.
"Fernandez was born in Spain in 1956 but grew up in Canada and earned a ferocious reputation on the streets of Quebec and Ontario," Adrian Humphreys recently wrote for the National Post. "When the Montreal Mafia took control of Ontario’s underworld in 2001, Vito Rizzuto, Canada’s top mob boss, sent Fernandez as his point man. Fernandez attracted and frightened people in equal measure. He once punched his 17-year-old girlfriend so hard she died. One gangster in Toronto shook so much when meeting Fernandez in a café that a ceramic espresso cup in his hand clattered against its saucer."Part of the conversation that was caught on tape:Declaring that Mr. Rizzuto “makes the fucking rules” regardless of what Mafia bosses in Sicily thought, Mr. Fernandez asserted his right to sit at the table with other “men of honour.”
“Vito ‘made’ me and my compare, Raynald,” Mr. Fernandez is heard saying on a wiretap, a reference to being officially inducted into the Mafia, a right previously reserved for Italians.
“You’re not Italian,” said the surprised man he was speaking with.
“No, no. Me and my compare,” Mr. Fernandez insisted, were “made” men despite their lineage.Fernandez (aka Joe Bravo) was Spanish and Desjardins was French-Canadian. I find it pretty hard to believe that Rizzuto would induct either of these guys. Just my opinion, but I think Fernandez (the guy on the tape) was just blowing smoke. Maybe some of the guys here who know more about Montreal would be able to shed some light on this story? http://www.cosanostranews.com/2014/11/why-did-vito-rizzuto-take-out-joe-bravo.htmlhttp://www.cosanostranews.com/2013/05/boss-rizzuto-inducted-non-italians-into.html
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Re: Did Rizzuto Induct Non-Italians?
[Re: Tonytough]
#816800
12/03/14 07:22 AM
12/03/14 07:22 AM
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Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,094 Cajunland
LaLouisiane
Cajun Mafia
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Cajun Mafia
Underboss
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,094
Cajunland
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Could it have been possible for Rizzuto to pretend to induct these non-Italians simply to make them feel appreciated... Thus gaining their loyalty which ultimately is about the money! Ok didn't work out in the end if true but he tried.
I mean it's not hard. Tell the douche bags to put on a suit. Bring them to the basement. Get them to chant some italian words, burn a picture, prick a finger. Read out some rules, etc. Remind them to keep kicking $$$ upstairs.
Then Vito Rizzuto and his father are laughing," jeez we had these guys pretty good".
And like others have pointed out, other LCN members/ from other families or in Italy certainly aren't going to recognise them as made men anyway.
So the only ones being fooled are the guys being made. I agree with this theory. You put on the dog and pony show and let them think they are made. You know no one will believe them if they try to brag about it. And at the end of the day all you have to do is deny it. Rizzuto wasn't a dumb man, we can all agree on that. I wouldn't put it past the guy to have fooled these two into thinking they were made just so they could be more loyal to him. TO ADD: Lastly, why would Joe Bravo go to SICILY of all places and throw out this rumor with no hint of truth to it??? It's not like sitting in a cafe down here with Tom, Dick, and Harry. He was essentially in the birthplace of the Mafia throwing out a huge rumor about himself. He must have known the consequences of saying something that unwarranted without any hint of truth behind it. Was he formally made into the mafia? No, probably not. But I do believe Rizzuto coaxed him into believing he was an official member just so his loyalty would be that much stronger.
Last edited by LaLouisiane; 12/03/14 07:34 AM.
"What are you cacklin' hens cluckin' about?!?!"
"Is that him?!? With the sombrero on?!?"
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Re: Did Rizzuto Induct Non-Italians?
[Re: LuanKuci]
#816852
12/03/14 12:53 PM
12/03/14 12:53 PM
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Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,094 Cajunland
LaLouisiane
Cajun Mafia
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Cajun Mafia
Underboss
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,094
Cajunland
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again: we are talking about montreal/italy not sloppy philadelphia
you just do NOT screw around with the ceremony. even if it just "for show".
I think that's exactly how dixie stated: they were "top" level "associates", way above the average ones.
Like those non-italian big leaugers in the outfit years ago, gus guy alex or something I'm not saying they were formally inducted man. Hell Rizzuto could have said jiberish in Sicilian and they thought he was being serious. I just find it hard to believe someone would be that stupid to go to mainland Sicily and make the one claim that could get you a bullet in your head on the spot without a shred of truth to it.
"What are you cacklin' hens cluckin' about?!?!"
"Is that him?!? With the sombrero on?!?"
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Re: Did Rizzuto Induct Non-Italians?
[Re: dominic_calabrese]
#816977
12/04/14 05:27 AM
12/04/14 05:27 AM
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Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,095
TheKillingJoke
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,095
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Fernandez seemed like a real low-life. He killed his girlfriend back in 1989 by punching her in the stomach with ridiculous force. Probably on steroids!
I am sure Fernandez was quite valuable to Rizzuto back in the late 90s/early 2000s as "teeth" for his encroachment on Toronto. But Rizzuto was too much of a old-school gentleman mafioso ever to have trusted such a vicious dog, let alone induct him into the mafia. He simply made use of Fernandez, and once he learned of Fernandez's disloyalty, the game was up . . . . He punched her in the throat actually. But yeah, with ridiculous force and quite probably during a case of roid rage. He tried to pimp her out to an associate of his. When she refused to have sex with the guy (who possibly was a complete stranger to her), he broke her windpipe. If that isn't the definition of lowlife trash I don't know what is. Without a doubt he was a tough character and he reputedly was able to work with lots of other criminal gangs in Toronto especially (bikers, Caribbeans, Sri Lankans,...), but in the end him running his mouth eventually got him the barbecue treatment.
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Re: Did Rizzuto Induct Non-Italians?
[Re: K1NG6]
#817713
12/08/14 06:07 AM
12/08/14 06:07 AM
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Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,841
SinatraClub
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,841
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I'm of the opinion that he did, personally. Fernandez wasn't killed for running his mouth, everything points to him being killed for refusing to meet with Vito and trying to play both sides of the fence. If we're of the belief that placement means something in this lifestyle, the guy had Fernandez seated right next to him over his own kind.
Although I do suppose he could've been leading both on and taking parts of their earnings, but if that were the case, why not just kill them and takeover their businesses, he did it to everyone else, what made Fernandez & Desjardins any different ? Considering the association with Vito made them bigger than what they were without him? It just doesn't make much sense to keep them around and so close to him, when he really didnt have to. Especially in Desjardin's case, because it turned around and bit Vito in the ass.
Last edited by SinatraClub; 12/08/14 02:43 PM.
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Re: Did Rizzuto Induct Non-Italians?
[Re: SinatraClub]
#817744
12/08/14 10:50 AM
12/08/14 10:50 AM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 3,372 Alabama
dixiemafia
ROLL TIDE!!!!!
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ROLL TIDE!!!!!
Underboss
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 3,372
Alabama
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why not just kill them and takeover their businesses After they took over Vito was known more for settling things than he was quick behind the trigger. It seemed you really had to screw up when he was in control to get clipped. Of course that shows you why so many feared him and why he had control when he wasn't in prison too. It seemed Vito was more on the side of "hey lets make some money" than "I'm the boss and will kill you for looking at me wrong" like Galante seemed to do.
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Re: Did Rizzuto Induct Non-Italians?
[Re: K1NG6]
#817844
12/08/14 05:33 PM
12/08/14 05:33 PM
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Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,841
SinatraClub
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,841
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That's true Dix, still though, I just think that Rizzuto actually protected Fernandez. It may have been in a "he's my cash cow" sort of way, but if he made a shitload of money for Rizzuto, that's even more reason for him to make an exception in my personal opinion (in the case of Desjardins also). To me, there's really nothing that says that he just made money with Fernandez and kept him at a distance. He kept those guys close to him, they were some of his main guys, especially Fernandez' case, I believe. Running his mouth didn't do him in, he failed two or three times to meet with his so-called "Compare". I really think Vito thought of him the same way, and that playing both sides of the fence shit is what got him killed.
And I'm also of the opinion that Vito wouldn't have cared what anyone else thought, he ran Montreal, who can tell him what to do? He had Ontario, the rest of the Organized Crime groups were the 'Ndrangheta, the Siderno group, Hells Angels and those Rock guys, and a bunch of black gangs. Basically there would really be no one to tell him what to do, and he had the power, so I don't believe his own guys would've challenged him (as we know, punks waited until he was locked up to make that kind of move). Sicily guys maybe, but they were kind of in two different worlds, but not really. And we know when Fernandez went down there anyway he made money with those guys as well for the time he was out there. Even after they had questioned about what he was saying when he was running his trap. Which could possibly mean they contacted guys in Montreal to validate it, but I think there's like a 20% chance that actually happened. And he cut off NY basically and stopped kicking up after a while, wouldn't even accept the Captain position after Sciascia death, and bullshitted Vitale about the number of guys he'd had out there. He clearly didn't care what Joe Massino or any other Bonanno (Except MAYBE for the Zips.),had thought about him or decisions.
Last edited by SinatraClub; 12/08/14 05:50 PM.
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