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NY Gangster's Plot To Kill Capone
#811000
10/31/14 04:36 PM
10/31/14 04:36 PM
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Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 691
GaryMartin
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Re: NY Gangster's Plot To Kill Capone
[Re: Alfa Romeo]
#811035
11/01/14 07:39 AM
11/01/14 07:39 AM
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Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 202 MidWest
Sal_Bronte
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In the article, it mentions that Bobby Doyle was one of the hitmen that took out Maranzano in his offices.
So we have many different versions of who killed Maranzano.
1. 4 Jews trained by Meyer Lanksy.
2. Red Levine, Vito Genovese, Joe Adonis, and Albert Anastasia did it.
3. Bobby Doyle and some others did it. Im not sure if it would have been possible for Genovese, Adonis or Anastasia to have been involved, you'd think Maranzano's guys would have recognized those guys. I always believed option 1 to be the most plausible.
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Re: NY Gangster's Plot To Kill Capone
[Re: dominic_calabrese]
#811125
11/01/14 03:01 PM
11/01/14 03:01 PM
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Joined: Sep 2014
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Alfa Romeo
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Dominic and Sal, reading the above news clipping led me to another... This one is about Valachi testifying to the US Senate that when Maranzano was killed, he actually met Charlie Luciano and Vito Genovese that day. The implication of course, is that Luciano and Genovese killed Maranzano themselves....with possible assistance. Valachi's Version of the Maranzano Rubout To me this is the most plausible, not the story told in the movie script called Last Testament of Lucky Luciano about 4 Jews trained over several weeks to impersonate IRS agents. To me it's more plausible that Luciano and Genovese and others did it themselves, and then told everyone else that Murder Inc did it. Remember. In the official story, Maranzano was to send for Luciano later on, but wanted to meet with Mad Dog Coll. Instead IRS agents show up ahead of time and whack Maranzano. So in the official story....Luciano was never there that day. But according to the above newspaper clipping quoting Valachi, Luciano and Vito Genovese were there. Remember Masseria? Why does everyone think Lucky took a leak when Masseria was shot? That was Lucky's story. They ate food and played cards? No way. No food was found in Masseria's stomach and someone probably placed the Ace in his hand for effect. There were important gangsters at that restaurant and no one ate very much if at all, so why would they be playing cards? No, Lucky probably shot Masseria himself (along with the rest of the gunmen) and then gave his gun to one of the assassins who ran/rode off...the same way Carmine Galante's bodyguards took part in the shooting once the masked killers arrived. They (Galante's guards) probably had to shoot because in not doing so they could later on talk to police and identify the killers to both police and gangsters alike. The only way to show approval for the hit and allegiance to the hitters is to pull out their pieces and start blasting away at the target along with everyone else. That's the only way to display that they are friendly to the coup. I think this is also what happened with Masseria and his bodyguard (Luciano). And if Lucky killed Masseria, he probably also took an active role in the hit on Maranzano.
"For us, rubbin'out a Mustache was just like makin' way for a new building, like we was in the construction business."
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Re: NY Gangster's Plot To Kill Capone
[Re: Binnie_Coll]
#811132
11/01/14 03:52 PM
11/01/14 03:52 PM
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Joined: Sep 2014
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Alfa Romeo
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good theory alfa, but, why didn't Luciano reveal this when he wrote " the last testament of lucky Luciano" he didn't mention he was involved.
it could have happened the way you theorize, simply because Luciano had access to both masseria, and maranzano. as no one else had. good post. Thanks Binnie. The Last Testament of Lucky Luciano was a movie script that got made into a book. So making Lucky out to be a murderer in his own movie was not written into the script. Plus I think that it would have damaged Charlie's underworld reputation to take credit for participating in these hits. But I think it more likely that he did, participate.
"For us, rubbin'out a Mustache was just like makin' way for a new building, like we was in the construction business."
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Re: NY Gangster's Plot To Kill Capone
[Re: Giacomo_Vacari]
#811155
11/01/14 06:00 PM
11/01/14 06:00 PM
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Joined: Sep 2014
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Thanks for politely disagreeing, Giacomo. I believe number one. Genovese and Luciano would have had easy access, but Maranzano made sure his men patted everyone down that were about to enter the front office. How do we know this is what happened at that meeting? What I mean is, who is the source? Salvatore had a strict no weapons policy. LE was not subjected to this. It makes sense that non Italians were used on the Maranzano hit. Bugsy was well know to members of the Gambino, Genovese, and Lucchese crime families at the time, but not that well know to the Bonanno and Profaci families till later on. Tommy Lucchese pointed Maranzano out to the killers so by doing that, it shows Maranzano and the killers did not know each other. Would it matter if he knew them or not? His guards were held up at gunpoint. As for Luciano being at the Masseria hit. He was not, but at a different meeting that day with some of Masseria strong supporters and waited till the deed was done before he informed them of what took place. So Luciano was not at the Nuova Villa Tammarro restaurant at all? Interesting. Someone who was present must have said Luciano was not there. Yes?
"For us, rubbin'out a Mustache was just like makin' way for a new building, like we was in the construction business."
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Re: NY Gangster's Plot To Kill Capone
[Re: GaryMartin]
#811196
11/01/14 08:39 PM
11/01/14 08:39 PM
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,727 Larry's Bar
Giacomo_Vacari
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Source about the Maranzano hit, comes from a report given by Abe Wagner who stated that it was organized by Meyer Lansky and Louis Buchalter as a favor for Luciano, but did not name the killers, only saying they were all Jewish. This was back in 1932 when he turned on the newly formed Murder Inc.
Sources for the Massaria hit, are Nicolo Gentile who wrote that Lucky was at his home most of the day and even at the time Massaria was killed. Frank Costello, Meyer Lansky, and Thomas Greco were there along with a couple of top guys in Massaria gang. The other source is word of mouth. Salvatore Chiri was present at the Massaria hit, and Joe invited Vito Genovese and Joe Adonis to discuss eliminating someone named Grimaldi who was a top guy in Maranzano gang that was hijacking Massaria's trucks in New Jersey. Chiri was a back up shooter who stood outside with another guy named Tony Green, who was Italian, in case Joe reached the door. Genovese, Adonis were two of the shooters, Anastasia, and Moretti were the other two that seemed to come out of nowhere, one of the shooters was able to get off a couple of shots before his gun jammed. Ciro Terranova and Salvatore Moretti, brother to Willie Moore were two of the getaway drivers. This is all from word of mouth. So take it for what's its worth. Salvatore Chiri could have been one of the shooters but decided to lay the blame on the other four.
Maranzano was trying to take out Capone, but when Joe Aiello was killed, it weakened those that were willing to fight for Salvatore, to were they relocated or went over to the Capones forces, thus Maranzano had no foot hold nor the resources to have Al killed in Chicago.
"I have this Nightmare. I'm on 5th avenue watching the St. Patrick's Day parade and I have a coronary and nine thousand cops march happily over my body." Chief Sidney Green
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Re: NY Gangster's Plot To Kill Capone
[Re: SinatraClub]
#815521
11/26/14 09:51 AM
11/26/14 09:51 AM
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,841 OC, CA
Faithful1
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There's an American Mafia article about the Last Testament Of Lucky Luciano and its authenticity. While it was a movie script originally, it only became a book after Luciano got word from NY that he wasn't allowed to make no movie. The people who doubted the book and if it even came from Luciano himself, have also written a shitload of inaccuracies in their own Luciano books. Neither of those containing Luciano's own words. I don't think it can be doubted that the Last Testament book is really Luciano's own testimony, however the common belief is he himself wasn't truthful with the author. It should be noted that all those who criticized the Last Testament book, in their own books write about the Night Of The Vespucci, as if it actually happened. It's now common fact that Luciano didnt have a bunch of mustache petes in 15 states murdered all within a few hours. The Last Testament was the only book at the time that denied it happening in the first place.
It's possible Luciano was directly involved with Marazano's murder. But I personally doubt it and think the Murder Inc. Jew squad theory, is a lot closer to reality than people think. It wasn't the first. Joseph Albini in his book "The American Mafia" said it earlier. Some of the exact words used in this section of "The Last Testament" came from books published by Hank Messick in the late 1960s and early 1970s. How does a book where Lucky Luciano is supposedly giving his confession before he died in 1962 quote books that were published years after he died?
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Re: NY Gangster's Plot To Kill Capone
[Re: GaryMartin]
#815565
11/26/14 02:59 PM
11/26/14 02:59 PM
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Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 3,021 far, northwest
Binnie_Coll
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faithful l yeah, there may be one or two things in the "last testament" that may be true, but, as you have researched, its mostly fraudulent, my opinon of it changed after your findings.
" watch what you say around this guy, he's got a big mouth" sam giancana to an outfit soldier about frank Sinatra. [ from the book "my way"
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Re: NY Gangster's Plot To Kill Capone
[Re: Faithful1]
#815667
11/27/14 09:47 AM
11/27/14 09:47 AM
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Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,841
SinatraClub
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There's an American Mafia article about the Last Testament Of Lucky Luciano and its authenticity. While it was a movie script originally, it only became a book after Luciano got word from NY that he wasn't allowed to make no movie. The people who doubted the book and if it even came from Luciano himself, have also written a shitload of inaccuracies in their own Luciano books. Neither of those containing Luciano's own words. I don't think it can be doubted that the Last Testament book is really Luciano's own testimony, however the common belief is he himself wasn't truthful with the author. It should be noted that all those who criticized the Last Testament book, in their own books write about the Night Of The Vespucci, as if it actually happened. It's now common fact that Luciano didnt have a bunch of mustache petes in 15 states murdered all within a few hours. The Last Testament was the only book at the time that denied it happening in the first place.
It's possible Luciano was directly involved with Marazano's murder. But I personally doubt it and think the Murder Inc. Jew squad theory, is a lot closer to reality than people think. It wasn't the first. Joseph Albini in his book "The American Mafia" said it earlier. Some of the exact words used in this section of "The Last Testament" came from books published by Hank Messick in the late 1960s and early 1970s. How does a book where Lucky Luciano is supposedly giving his confession before he died in 1962 quote books that were published years after he died? It may not have been the first, but at the time it was one of the few. And did Hank Messick even write a book on Luciano? The only ones I know of is "Lansky" and "Kill The Dutchman", which is the story of Dutch Schultz. And does the book quote those other books as if it's Luciano saying it, or is it the authors POV? The book wasn't written until years after Luciano died, like 7 or 10 years later, supposedly at Luciano's request, that could be why the book quotes other books from a later time period, that theory is only plausible if like I said, it's just the author inserting his POV, which happens a lot throughout the book. I'm not one to write the book off as complete bullshit, as after doing research, combined with those two articles published by AM, many of the authors and mafia investigators who dismissed the books, also had books about Luciano out at the time, and they're books included inaccuracies and just flat out lies, much like the book they dismissed. I think Gosch did speak to Luciano, I think he and Luciano were acquainted and that he did have notes of Luciano's words. I just don't think Luciano was real honest with the guy and embellished a lot of his own history, the author is guilty of this as well. But I don't share the opinion that the book should just be written off. I think in order to get true facts about Luciano's life, you have to cross reference The Last Testament with books like Boardwalk Gangster, and the book about his prostitution trial. Fact is they all include inaccuracies, and just straight up falsehoods, but some things in them are fact, and they should be looked at as a whole to get a better understanding of the guy and his life, as opposed to just standing on their own as separate works of literature.
Last edited by SinatraClub; 11/27/14 09:55 AM.
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